Refuting the charge against the CC of an soon to Ex-Catholic

[Mannyfit75]

I am posting this because I was not able to respond to the charges of the soon to be Ex-Catholic. I will post my refuting remarks.

1. Catholics pound on that large green book The Catechism of the Catholic faith as if it were the bible itself! I think most of you take more faithand stock in that book than you do the bible

The Catechism also quotes Scripture, ECF, Vatican II Document. The Catechism is a summary of our Catholic Church. What the Catechism teaches is the Life and Minister of Jesus Christ. It is a means of instructing the faith.

Who says we treat the Catechism more than we do the Bible. I hardly think so. The Catechism itself does not claim superiority over the Bible. In fact this what the Catholicism has to say about the Bible:

**103 For this reason, the Church has always venerated the Scriptures as she venerates the Lord’s Body. She never ceases to present to the faithful the bread of life, taken from the one table of God’s Word and Christ’s Body.66

104 In Sacred Scripture, the Church constantly finds her nourishment and her strength, for she welcomes it not as a human word, “but as what it really is, the word of God”.67 "In the sacred books, the Father who is in heaven comes lovingly to meet his children, and talks with them."68 **

1. Jesus sat down with tax collectors, drunks, and (gasp) whore. to try to help them and teach them, but yet when I see someone who walks in a church that looks even remotely different from the other parishioners I see you all eyeballing them and talking about them behind there back like they were pond scum or a leeper. All while listening to the “Love Your Neighbor” sermon. I mean Lord forgive us if a gay/or lesbian person ever attended a service! Lord forgive us if someone with green hair walks into a catholic church to maybe find some answers about the Holy Trinty cause sure as hellfire damm near all of you will be freaked out by it! Love your Neighbor… but only if your neighbor looks and acts like yourself right.

I agree we should love our neighbor. A gay or lesbian who are living contrary to the teachings of the Bible and the Church by living in sin cannot received Communion for their sin is mortal sin. They are called to repentence. If they wish to received the Lord, they would change their ways. Like Fr. Corapi said, “Hate the sin, love the sinner.”

 

[Mannyfit75]

1. My parish well now my former parish I guess has alter girls. I can remember people freaking out over that concept alone! I mean how closed minded do you want to be here people! Oh NO that little girl is up near the Eucharist (gasp) Oh the shock and horror of it all! Someone get her way form it NOW!!!

The US Bishops allow alter girls. If Catholics don’t like it. They probably have issues with the Church itself.

The decision came in the form of a circular letter [1] from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments to presidents of episcopal conferences on 15 March 1994, which announced a 30 June 1992 authentic interpretation (confirmed on 11 July 1992 by Pope John Paul II) from the Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legislative Texts. This authentic interpretation said that canon 230 §2 states that service at the altar is one of the liturgical functions that can be performed by both lay men and women

. The circular letter, written by the cardinal-prefect of the Congregation, also clarified that canon 230 §2 has a permissive and not a preceptive character, that is, it allows, but does not require, the use of female altar servers. Thus it was for each diocesan bishop to decide whether to allow them in his diocese

1. John Paul II wait let me say John Paul II THE GREAT was awesome! He was and still is in my book THE BEST POPE EVER I really miss him! But this Pope Benedict XVI appears to be trying to take us back to the day before the Second Vatican Council. Yeah… let us return to the dark ages and get rid of them evil alter girls and the like. Lets get some Crusades going again and kill all the non-belivers. I will not lie here I sincerely believe Benedicts former life as a Nazi really does not help at all. Think about it people do you realize the current Pope may at one time have been order to shot and kill the Pope that precedded him!

Benedict XVI was forced to join the Nazi. His father was an enemy of the Nazi. Wikipedia states,

His father was a bitter enemy of Nazism, believing it conflicted with the Catholic faith. In 1941, one of Ratzinger’s cousins, a 14-year-old boy with Down syndrome, was killed by the Nazi regime in its campaign of eugenics.

In 1943 while still in seminary, he was drafted at age 16 into the German anti-aircraft corps. Ratzinger then trained in the German infantry, but a subsequent illness precluded him from the usual rigours of military duty. As the Allied front drew closer to his post in 1945, he** deserted back to his family’s home in Traunstein after his unit had ceased to exist**, just as American troops established their headquarters in the Ratzinger household. As a German soldier, he was put in a POW camp but was released a few months later at the end of the War in summer 1945. He re-entered the seminary, along with his brother Georg, in November of that year.

For one Joseph did not took any major role Nazism. His father died. Before you condemned the Successor of Peter, you ought to look at the facts before you accused someone of scandal. To cause scandal by the way is sinful.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I can’t even begin to describe how many of you don’t even come close to what Jesus asked us to be.

Do you? Since when you were given an insight on the ability to read the hearts and minds of Catholics? Of course we are imperfect. We are sinners. Yet, remember what Jesus said to us concerning religious authorities. “Do what they tell you to do, but do not practiced what they do. Because they sit of the seat of Moses.”

Most of the Catholics here are very charitable.

I really like how so many of you claim that:

1. You all seem to know God’s will with 100% certainty. I mean wow if your in direct contact with God please tell us his phone number cause I myself have tons of question to as him.

We don’t. In the word’s of Jesus Christ. “Take this cup from me, not my will, but yours.”

NO Catholic knows God’s will. We are move by grace to be moved by the will of the Father. I recommend reading St. Faustina’s Diary. In her book, it shows how God’s will has move through her life. She was never certain that she knows God’s will. We will know God’s will once we complete this life and enter into the next life.

1. Many say the Catholic church is infalliable…yeah…right…The catholic church is ran by HUMAN BEING who make mistakes. By saying the church is infalliable you just justified The Crusades, The Spain Inquisition, and more recently the Child molestion probelms. Why oh why do you follow your leaders so blindly without question. So many of you view the Pope as some kind of GOD or something.

The Catholic Church is infallible only in its authority to teach moral and faith issues. The Holy Spirit guides the Church to prevent it from declaring heresy.

The Crusades. This was not infallible declared. It was a call made since the Eastern Christians were threaten by the Muslim invasion and requested the Pope’s add. The secular kings for the most did most of the action. The Pope caution the Crusaders not to commit atrocities. However, like many Catholics today, the Catholics then were no different. They ignore the Pope’s pleas.
In 1482 the size of the inquisition was expanded and included the Dominican Friar Tomas de Torquemada, though Pope Sixtus IV protested against the activities of the inquisition in Aragon and its treatment of the conversos.

The papacy would continue to complain about the treatment of the conversos, but the unity of the Spanish Inquisition with the State would remain a distinguishing characteristic, and a primary source of post-Reformation European hatred.

((Resource: catholicleague.org/research/inquisition.html)

 

[Mannyfit75]

1. This is the main reason why I well be leaving the church. I have seen a Catholic Priest leave the church recently. And I see about 98% of you CONDEMING THE MAN TO HELL FOR IT!!! You forget the years of service the man has given to others. You forget how many others this priest has helped. You forget how many time this man has listened to others confess their sins and mistakes… but when the priest himself makes one OH BOY ITS TIME TO SCREAM UP AND DOWN ABOUT HIM GOING TO HELL AND ABOUT HOW HE LET US ALL DOWN.

I don’t condemned anyone to hell. A man who does that is the man himself. Judgement is reserve for God alone. If a Catholic priest leaves, let the judgement seat of God handle it. It is not my business nor any of ours.

You same people who condem the man turn right back around and go back to your little closed in world and preach “Love your neighbor!!” What you SHOULD be reading is this one First take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye" Or better yet re-read the story about the women caught in the act of adulty. Let he who is without sin throw the first stone.

Are you any different by attacking the Catholic Church. I have seen nothing but your anger at the Bride of Christ. What charity do you have?

Hypocrites!!! Not all of you, but damm near most of you!

I will be quiting my RCIA classes and seeking out other faiths.

I hope this post doesn’t get deleted, but if it does its just more proof that anything non-catholic and of an opposing viewpoint will never ever be tolerated and must be destoryed at all cost. Lord forgive me for having my own opinon and thinking for myself and not following people blindly huh?

“I like your Jesus very much…too bad almost none of you act like him.” - Mahatma Gandhi

You are no worst than a hyprocrite. You rant all your hatred of the Catholic Church and bring out some many of your false misconception. You have the nerve to attack the Bride of Christ. Who gave you the authority to rant and moan like a child? Do you know that in the Catholic Church we have the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Tabernacle? You are leaving the Catholic Church for the sins of Catholics?

Have you ever even bother to offer almsgiving, do a Holy Hour of the Blessed Sacrament? Ask the Lord for grace to help your troubles of your doubt about the Catholic Church? If you have done none of these, I see why your faith is weak.

I will keep you in your prayers though. I just hope you become Eastern Orthodox than a Protestant. At least they maintain Seven Sacraments.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Maybe you should comment on this part too:

But this Pope Benedict XVI appears to be trying to take us back to the day before the Second Vatican Council

 

[mercygate]

This man’s problems are not with the Catholic Church. His OP included some serious personal problems that had nothing to do with religion, much less with Catholicism.

 

[He_Man]

The poster in question went off in the thread I started about Father Francis Mary, though I think the mods edited out some of his posts, not sure.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=195457

If this helps add any context. Despite the continued insistence that we needed to pray for Fr. Francis Mary, but that he was in fact wrong if he left the Priesthood after taking sacred vows, the OP coninued to refer to us condeming him to hell.

Apparently, saying anything negative about anything at all = condeming to Hell.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I wish I knew who you were talking about Manny, so I can add him/her to my prayer list.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Maybe you should comment on this part too:

Sure. Do you want me to give an my opinions on it? I think most people do.

Pope Benedict XVI is not reverting Second Vatican Council. He only allowed more freedom for Catholics who have a love for the Tridentine Mass to practiced it. The Tridentine Mass was never abolished by the Council.

I believe Pope Benedict XVI is being faithful to the Church. I also believe, he has a great respect for the Second Vatican Council. He also defend the Council.

In a 22 December 2005 speech to the Roman Curia, Pope Benedict XVI** decried those who interpreted the documents of the Council in terms of “discontinuity and rupture”. The proper interpretation, he said, is that proposed at the start and at the close of the Council by Popes John XXIII and Paul VI**. On opening the Council, Pope John XXIII stated that the Council intended “to transmit the doctrine pure and entire, without diminution or distortion”, adding: “It is our duty not only to guard this precious treasure, as if interested only in antiquity, but also to devote ourselves readily and fearlessly to the work our age requires. … This sure unchangeable doctrine, which must be faithfully respected, has to be studied in depth and presented in a way that fits the requirements of our time. For the deposit of the faith, that is, the truths contained in our venerable doctrine, is one thing, and the way in which they are enunciated, while still preserving the same meaning and fullness, is another.” After thus quoting his predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI then declared:* “Wherever this interpretation has guided reception of the Council, new life has grown and new fruit has ripened. … Today we see that the good seed, though slow in developing, is nonetheless growing, and our profound gratitude for the Council’s work is growing likewise.”*

 

[wmscott]

I am surprised, but not surprised at the visceral hate and contempt this person has towards the CC. It makes me wonder if this individual did not have an agenda of some sort prior to entering RCIA or just a really big chip on their shoulder. Either way this person is blinded to the truth even before getting started and there really was no hope for this individual to begin with. This person will need a lot of prayers; I do not think they will be happy anywhere if this person remains so critical and judgmental. A lot of anger issues here.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I am surprised, but not surprised at the visceral hate and contempt this person has towards the CC. It makes me wonder if this individual did not have an agenda of some sort prior to entering RCIA or just a really big chip on their shoulder. Either way this person is blinded to the truth even before getting started and there really was no hope for this individual to begin with. This person will need a lot of prayers; I do not think they will be happy anywhere if this person remains so critical and judgmental. A lot of anger issues here.

The anger is a trademark for all Ex-Catholics.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Catechism — in time he will see that protestant churches do the same thing with systematic theologies and with their favorite authors.

All Christians need to take James 2 to heart.

James 2

1My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don’t show favoritism. 2Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. 3If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?
5Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?

 

[lak611]

I wish I knew who you were talking about Manny, so I can add him/her to my prayer list.

It is the poster who started this thread which has since been closed.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Catechism — in time he will see that protestant churches do the same thing with systematic theologies and with their favorite authors.

All Christians need to take James 2 to heart.

James 2

1My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don’t show favoritism. 2Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. 3If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?
5Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?

Amen. This applies to us all.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I wish I knew who you were talking about Manny, so I can add him/her to my prayer list.

I sincerely hope, he reconsider what he going to miss. If he joins a Protestant Church, he can’t be receiving the Body and Blood of the Lord. It is better if he convert to Eastern Orthodox. At least their sacraments are valid and have a valid Apostolic Succession.

 

[lak611]

The anger is a trademark for all Ex-Catholics.

It sounds to me like he had a disagreement with somebody in the RCIA and is directing his anger at the Church instead. I would suggest that he talk to a priest and maybe even go to a different parish for RCIA.

 

[Mannyfit75]

It sounds to me like he had a disagreement with somebody in the RCIA and is directing his anger at the Church instead. I would suggest that he talk to a priest and maybe even go to a different parish for RCIA.

We can pray for granting him more graces so he can be moved by the Spirit of the Lord. There isn’t much we can do. You can see the anger on his post. His acusation against the Church are mix with true and false facts. I had to correct his errors by making false assumptions.

 

[Seeker1963]

satan wants us to believe there is no hope—there is always hope
Let us encourage our brother to find a different RCIA class, or speak to his priest, or just pray…

“Our hope for you is firm, for we know that as you share in the sufferings, you also share in the encouragement.”
2 Corinthians 1:7

Seeker

 

[Valke2]

I sincerely hope, he reconsider what he going to miss. If he joins a Protestant Church, he can’t be receiving the Body and Blood of the Lord. It is better if he convert to Eastern Orthodox. At least their sacraments are valid and have a valid Apostolic Succession.

I have a question about this. I am asking this in total igonorance. I passed St. Paul’s Church in downtown manhattan today. As there was a picture of a female priest giving the Euchriast (sp?) I assume this is not a Catholic Church. Do protestant churches give communion/mass?

 

[lak611]

I have a question about this. I am asking this in total igonorance. I passed St. Paul’s Church in downtown manhattan today. As there was a picture of a female priest giving the Euchriast (sp?) I assume this is not a Catholic Church. Do protestant churches give communion/mass?

Episcopal has women clergy. Many Episcopalians have left that church due to this issue. There are Anglican churches that do not allow women clergy, but the Episcopal church does.