Refuting the charge against the CC of an soon to Ex-Catholic

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Also included in the collection were letters of popes from Sylvester 1 (4th century) to Gregory II (8th century) in which are more than 40 falsifications. But the most pope-friendly inclusion in the decretals was a document entitled, “The Donation of Constantine.” Thought to be authentic for 600 years, and used successfully by bishops of Rome as grounds for their claims to primacy, it actually contained the ultimate proof that popes and the papacy are NOT DIVINELY ORDAINED, but are simply another invention of mere mortals.

On the one hand, Rome teaches that Christ ordained Peter as the head of His Church, the rock on which it was founded, and the first pope. But for 600 years – from the ninth to the fifteenth century, the Donation of Constantine was invoked as the historical event granting to bishops of Rome ecclesiastical authority over all of Christendom and its episcopates, and temporal power over Rome and the entire Western Roman Empire.

So, even when Constantine the Great convoked the famous Council of Nicaea early in the FOURTH CENTURY there was no pope and no papacy. Constantine, who is not listed as a pope in Rome’s papal lineage, himself assumed the leadership of the churches and took the title Pontifex Maximus – highest priest. Inasmuch as the Pontifex Maximus title is one of the many applied to Roman Catholic popes, Sylvester, bishop of Rome at the time, should have had that title if he was the reigning pope. He was not the pope or a pope, and he was not even in attendance at the AD 325 Council of Nicaea.

Allegedly donated by Constantine the Great to Sylvester 1, bishop of Rome AD 314-335, it was used by Nicholas I to dispel opposition to popes and the papacy, and history shows that, from the ninth century to the present, bishops of Rome have been unopposed as exclusive occupants of the office of pope. In AD 1054, Leo IX tried to use the Donation of Constantine to secure control of the eastern as well as the western churches. The patriarch of Constantinople suggested Leo should mind his own business, and the split of the eastern (Orthodox) churches from Rome became permanent thereafter.

The Donation of Constantine was shown to be a deliberate forgery in AD 1440 by Lorenzo Valla, but not before the Vatican had used it to permanently secure its position of primacy over the entire western church, and to exercise nearly absolute control over kings and nations for 500 years as well. What is most interesting about this forged document and Rome’s use of it, is the secular source from which Rome allegedly derived its ecclesiastical and temporal power - its papacy. Where in history do we find Constantine invested with the power and authority to appoint a monarch over the Church of the living God? Isn’t the use of the Donation of Constantine by numerous popes eloquent proof that popes and the papacy are frauds, not initiated by Christ, but founded on the forged documents of men greedy for power?

Thank you for reading the real, factual, and provable Chruch History 101. I hope you learned something. (By the way I was one time invite to join a Semenary thanks you very much)

I’ll go so far so to say I challenge Rome itself to contest this post.
Nothing worse than an educated ex catholic is there?
 
The concern expressed here is understandable, but personally I think it is better either to approach this fellow in a private message to address his concerns (or invite to address them) rather than trying to refute them online. Other people don’t know the context in which these things were said, or what factors and emotions influenced them, and why.
 
Dear Manny,

Was the soon to be ex-catholic person you are talking about live in the US?. I just don’t expect such closemindedness ever exist in a highly educated population such as the US. If I compare him/her with our friend Agnostheist, I respect Agnos more, eventhough his thinking is different to ours. Agnos was a former Christian (that what he said), but I believe there is some Christianity left within him. I don’t believe that person was quoting Mahatma Gandhi. If only Gandhi knew Mother Theresa…, I wonder what he would say.
I slighty misqoted the man sadly but sorry the quote is in fact very verifiable and very sourced and proven to come from ganhdi’s own mouth. Please see below

“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” - Mahatma Gandhi

As quoted by William Rees-Mogg in The Times [London] (4 April 2005). Gandhi here makes reference to a statement of Jesus: “No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon." (Luke 16:13)

Additional sources:
en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mohandas_Gandhi
gandhi-manibhavan.org/

🙂
 
I wonder what happened to make this person so blatantly hateful.

His words betray him. They are spiteful, almost lingering on illogical. This person seems to be on an emotional rant rather than composing a set of arguments for why he/she left the church. Maybe this person has been hurt deeply? The arguments seem like a cry of desperation intermingled with a deep seated bitterness.

I think it will take much love and prayer to heal a soul as sad as this ❤️
Well sadly as someone else pointed out this is the continuation of a post that was locked out. So really only about HALF the story is being told here from boths sides of the coin.

If the orginal post was not closed out it would have continued there and make way more sense.

I think if you were to read my super long letter above (sorry it but inorder to prove one of my point for leaving the church it had to be long and full of the Catholic churches own articles, papers, dogma, papal bulls, history, etc so as to make it as undisputable as possiable) than you can see my dilema after having studies early church history why I am starting to thing soo many catholics are fooling themselves.
 
The concern expressed here is understandable, but personally I think it is better either to approach this fellow in a private message to address his concerns (or invite to address them) rather than trying to refute them online. Other people don’t know the context in which these things were said, or what factors and emotions influenced them, and why.
Yes well said!

This discussion goes back awhile to a few locked down threads and even erased threads. So many of my responses and post have been erase that some topics are now just a mis-mash of utter confusion which I am sure at this point in time in intentional to make me look bad and unschooled. Nothing is worse than being taken out of context and being censored. I can’t even prove where I have been misquoted,erased, and censored which give the hypocritcs that much more power.

People who calim to be good catholics are angry cause I have been using there own Catholic teachings against them in proving my points. They are angery cause they honestly have no clue as to the background and teaching of there own catholic church, but they will be the first one to jump up and down and call FOUL when anyone questions them or proves to have more knowledge than them. Ultimately they can’t deal with it so you get these strange half topic fourms so for many this topic really would makes little or no sense.

I have even goen so far as to respond to these posts and other writings in my private e-mail in asking for them to be reposted here but of course Mannyfit75 and the other have done no such thing. If your so "correct’ you would have had no probelms reposting my responses. Again censor at its best.

I was not even able to respond to this post for along time since I was Infracted by the board moderators here for “bad mouthing” the Catholic church. Censorship should in fact be included as a sacrament in the RCC faith since it used so often. I highly doubt any of my responces here will even survive a day at most since I am yet again making the Catholic Church look bad.

But hey most people and things I see around here make little or no sense anyways.

On a side note my private e-mail box here is overflowing! So people do understand what I am trying to convey and many are in agreement with me only they are afraid to post it in public while I of course am not.
 
There were so many things to address in his post, but the one that struck me was the attack on Benedict XVI. I can’t help but wonder if Saul, too, should have been condemned because of his prior affiliations. After all, Saul literally contributed to the deaths of many Christians- gruesome, terrible deaths. But once the Lord got hold of him, Paul became one of the most influencial men in all Christendom.

Whatever Benedict XVI might have been, and whatever he might have done, is nothing. It is what he has become that matters. That youth who was marginally affiliated with evil has become the leader of the largest Church on the face of this planet. Thanks be to God, whose works are far greater than men give Him credit for.

Benedict XVI dedicated his life to the Church. That is a testament to his faith. If the OP cannot see that, it is because he has a plank in his eye. We should pray for him…
I have used the example of Saul/Paul many times! Its one of my favorite examples especualy when the topic is on say murder or abortions and forgivness. But as stated in my other postings what your seeing here is only half of some locked down, erased, and censored responces.

The Benedict/John Paul analogy in fact pertains also to another topic that has been erased. 😦 so again your only getting half the picture here

Honestly the orginal topic here has now been so cut to ribbons its almost a mute point.

What is happening now is a very nice systemic and select censorship which I can’t control and thus all my posting are sounding worse as we go along.

If this was a free and uncensored forum more of my “cut to piece posting/repsonses” would make much more sense.

🤷
 
I wonder what happened to make this person so blatantly hateful.

His words betray him. They are spiteful, almost lingering on illogical. This person seems to be on an emotional rant rather than composing a set of arguments for why he/she left the church. Maybe this person has been hurt deeply? The arguments seem like a cry of desperation intermingled with a deep seated bitterness.

I think it will take much love and prayer to heal a soul as sad as this ❤️
Umm no again I have been censored, erased, taken out of context and more. I too can take “half” of somone else post and twist it to conform to my meaning as well. Anyone can its not very hard

🤷 Can’t seem to go against the powers that be on this forum. If your in disagreement here you get censored for bad mouthing the RCC.

But hey what else is new the RCC been doing that now for about 1900 years.

I highly doubt that many of these posting are even going to last less than 1 day, but hey I have to try aways. Even if only 1 person sees them.
 
I have a question about this. I am asking this in total igonorance. I passed St. Paul’s Church in downtown manhattan today. As there was a picture of a female priest giving the Euchriast (sp?) I assume this is not a Catholic Church. Do protestant churches give communion/mass?
All Christians I know about except for traditional Quakers, a few hyper-dispensationalists, and the Salvation Army celebrate communion. Protestants vary widely in their beliefs and practices, however–Anglicans and Lutherans are the closest to Catholicism.

Edwin
 
Umm no again I have been censored, erased, taken out of context and more. I too can take “half” of somone else post and twist it to conform to my meaning as well. Anyone can its not very hard

🤷 Can’t seem to go against the powers that be on this forum. If your in disagreement here you get censored for bad mouthing the RCC.

But hey what else is new the RCC been doing that now for about 1900 years.

I highly doubt that many of these posting are even going to last less than 1 day, but hey I have to try aways. Even if only 1 person sees them.
We week ago you were in RCIA. Now you are an ex-Catholic (according to yuor posts), but still reference your RCIA teacher. :confused: What is your status, this isn’t adding up.

You do realize everyone here is trying to help you and answer questions right? You seem offended by their help.
 
We week ago you were in RCIA. Now you are an ex-Catholic (according to yuor posts), but still reference your RCIA teacher. :confused: What is your status, this isn’t adding up.

You do realize everyone here is trying to help you and answer questions right? You seem offended by their help.
Umm what exactly does not add up?

Surprised that I studied the early Church history long before I decided to join the RCIA for my possiable confirmation? My RCIA classes were very helpful in forming my above opinion sadly or are you yet again refering to yet something else that has been cesnored and can not prove to be verifiable?

Do you even bother to read my nice long letter on early church history? I suggest you slowly go thru the letter insert some names of the people and things you see into your on-line Catholic Enyclopdia and/or wowiki and see for yourself.

That letter is just one of many examples I can sight using the roman catholic churches own writings proving it self to be at total odds it itself.

Again what is happening here is my post have now been so censored the meanig what what I have to say has just been totaly lost.

🤷
 
Umm what exactly does not add up?

Surprised that I studied the early Church history long before I decided to join the RCIA for my possiable confirmation? My RCIA classes were very helpful in forming my above opinion sadly or are you yet again refering to yet something else that has been cesnored and can not prove to be verifiable?

Do you even bother to read my nice long letter on early church history? I suggest you slowly go thru the letter insert some names of the people and things you see into your on-line Catholic Enyclopdia and/or wowiki and see for yourself.

That letter is just one of many examples I can sight using the roman catholic churches own writings proving it self to be at total odds it itself.

Again what is happening here is my post have now been so censored the meanig what what I have to say has just been totaly lost.

🤷
No, I read it.

Anyway…

You said a week ago you were in RCIA, and seemed fine with it. Now you claim to be an ex-Catholic, but still refer to an RCIA teacher.

What the heck are you? It is your status people are trying to determine, so as to best answer your gripes/issues/historical problems.

Are you

A) Catholic, and practising
B) in RCIA to become Catholic
C) Lapsed (aka former Catholic, though that is a misnomer)
D) Just angsty and making it all up for kicks
 
To the 25 addtional people who have wrote me in private e-mail. I will try to get to your letters ASAP but not my private e-mail here is just about bursting at the seems. I can not erase it and answer it fast enough.
 
Umm what exactly does not add up?

Surprised that I studied the early Church history long before I decided to join the RCIA for my possiable confirmation? My RCIA classes were very helpful in forming my above opinion sadly or are you yet again refering to yet something else that has been cesnored and can not prove to be verifiable?

Do you even bother to read my nice long letter on early church history? I suggest you slowly go thru the letter insert some names of the people and things you see into your on-line Catholic Enyclopdia and/or wowiki and see for yourself.

That letter is just one of many examples I can sight using the roman catholic churches own writings proving it self to be at total odds it itself.

Again what is happening here is my post have now been so censored the meanig what what I have to say has just been totaly lost.

🤷
What is your purpose here? Are you hoping that the rest of us Catholics will be convinced by the “history lesson” and leave the Church too?
 
What is your purpose here? Are you hoping that the rest of us Catholics will be convinced by the “history lesson” and leave the Church too?
I think that’s his goal, a goal that is doom to failed. His faith is rather the weak. I like to quote Darth Vader, “I find your lack of faith, disturbing.”

Apparently, this dude has issues with the RCIA instructor, and Catholics in this forum in general. He also like to catagorize us into hypocrites for not practicing what we preach. Oh, please, spare me the dramatics. I hardly think jpsheehn can convince us. He is a **** poor example of how lack of faith he has. I bet he has not even ask Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament about his issues.
 
jpsheehn;

Strangely enough you failed to consider the language which Jesus himself spoke. Jesus spoke Aramaic. The word for Rock in Aramaic is Kepha or Cephas.

Let us review the passage of Matthew 16:13-20, and replace the letter rock or Peter as Kepha or Cephas.

Matthew 16:13-20 (Ignatius Bible RSV-2nd Ed.)

Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesar Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do men say that the Son of man is?” And they said, “Some say John, the Baptist, others say, Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Kepha and on this Kepha, I will build my Church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.

In this passage, Jesus revealed to Peter that the Father in heaven has granted him a new revelation. He tells Simon, that he is Kepha and upon Simon, Jesus will build his Church. Jesus who is the truth rock grafted Peter into himself, as Fr. Corapi put it. Note I also change passage by replacing Rock with the Aramaic word Kepha. The meanings remain the same.
 
No, I read it.

Anyway…

You said a week ago you were in RCIA, and seemed fine with it. Now you claim to be an ex-Catholic, but still refer to an RCIA teacher.

What the heck are you? It is your status people are trying to determine, so as to best answer your gripes/issues/historical problems.

Are you

A) Catholic, and practising
B) in RCIA to become Catholic
C) Lapsed (aka former Catholic, though that is a misnomer)
D) Just angsty and making it all up for kicks
For some reason I think your assuming I am a non catholic or something here BEFORE joining RCIA. I have in fact known my RCIA teacher for 3 year from being in attendance with her at the same perish.

My status at the start of these writing was Catholic and practing (but with serious doubts since what I have studied realy never added up to me please see my 3 post saddly long postings as to one of the reasons why).

My status right now can be labeled as nothing other than Ex-Catholic since I find The Roman Catholic Church at odds with its own teaching on more than one issue.

I made a reference to my RCIA teacher in one of the posting because she is in fact a very knowledge person who in my hubble opinion would make a great female priest if the RCC would ever allow such a thing. I have infact encouraged her to be a deaconess but that in and off itself is an entirely diffferent story. I have had many awesome theologicla discussion with her.

I think what your trying to do now is somehow dis-credit me based upon my possiable attendance or non attendance to a Catholic church or sometthing.

🤷

Ad hominem

Person A makes claim X
There is something objectionable about Person A
Therefore claim X is false
 
jpsheehn;

Strangely enough you failed to consider the language which Jesus himself spoke. Jesus spoke Aramaic. The word for Rock in Aramaic is Kepha or Cephas.

Let us review the passage of Matthew 16:13-20, and replace the letter rock or Peter as Kepha or Cephas.

Matthew 16:13-20 (Ignatius Bible RSV-2nd Ed.)

Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesar Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do men say that the Son of man is?” And they said, “Some say John, the Baptist, others say, Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Kepha and on this Kepha, I will build my Church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.

In this passage, Jesus revealed to Peter that the Father in heaven has granted him a new revelation. He tells Simon, that he is Kepha and upon Simon, Jesus will build his Church. Jesus who is the truth rock grafted Peter into himself, as Fr. Corapi put it. Note I also change passage by replacing Rock with the Aramaic word Kepha. The meanings remain the same.
I see you have not bothered to read my 3 post long letter addressing Matthew 16:18 and 19

:sigh: Why do I even bother posting things since none of you read them and or just censor them.:rolleyes:

Hypocrites who do not even know there on tradtions, church history, dogma, etc etc even when I spell it out for them.

Ad hominem and I grew weary of it.
 
For some reason I think your assuming I am a non catholic or something here BEFORE joining RCIA. I have in fact known my RCIA teacher for 3 year from being in attendance with her at the same perish.

My status at the start of these writing was Catholic and practing (but with serious doubts since what I have studied realy never added up to me please see my 3 post saddly long postings as to one of the reasons why).

My status right now can be labeled as nothing other than Ex-Catholic since I find The Roman Catholic Church at odds with its own teaching on more than one issue.

I made a reference to my RCIA teacher in one of the posting because she is in fact a very knowledge person who in my hubble opinion would make a great female priest if the RCC would ever allow such a thing. I have infact encouraged her to be a deaconess but that in and off itself is an entirely diffferent story. I have had many awesome theologicla discussion with her.

I think what your trying to do now is somehow dis-credit me based upon my possiable attendance or non attendance to a Catholic church or sometthing.

🤷

Ad hominem

Person A makes claim X
There is something objectionable about Person A
Therefore claim X is false
Actually, I was just trying to keep everything straight. If I want to discredit you, I’ll go through your post line by line.

Right now though, I’d rather set up my fantasy teams for sunday and find out the line on the Ravens game.

Again, you seemed to miss the point that people here actually wanted to be nice to you and help you. Don’t spew such vitriol at them.

You need to relax a bit, bro. You speak in harsh terms, attack the Church, then get defensive when someone like Manny rebutts your claims. If you can’t debate without getting so angsty, best to avoid it.

It is obvious you don’t want to be convinced of anything else. You have your mind made up, and you seem to think you have stumbled upon something new. :newidea:

You seem to think you are the first person to ever try and debunk the Catholic Church in the past two thousand years. Why is that whenever we hear these theories, they are the same old trite ideas that were either dismissed or laughed at decades (or centuries) ago? Nothing you posted is A) revolutionary B) new C) very accurate. Perhaps your deaconess friends think so, but then she’d be wrong too.

You claim you have had good debates before, but it is evident you don’t know how. I debate involves a “point, counter-point” framework. Not a “point, STOP BEING ME TO ME CAUSE I’M SMARTER!” framework.

Look, if you want to go back and forth and actually debate these issues, there are many intelligent people who will gladly oblige. We could all learn from each other.

If your goal is simply to disparrage the Church, then yawn:yawn:
 
I see you have not bothered to read my 3 post long letter addressing Matthew 16:18 and 19

:sigh: Why do I even bother posting things since none of you read them and or just censor them.:rolleyes:

Hypocrites who do not even know there on tradtions, church history, dogma, etc etc even when I spell it out for them.

Ad hominem and I grew weary of it.
Here’s how it works. If you want someone to address a specific point you made, ask them to address that point. Smugly saying “I see you have not bothered to read my 3 post long letter addressing Matthew 16:18 and 19” accomplishes nothing. Look around the site, do you see anyone else acting like you?

You just called random posters hypocrites, and then whine like a child about ad hominems? Grow up, kid.
 
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