Reincarnation and Catholicism

[Ahimsa]

Yes, the CCC says that there is just one birth and one death (that is, physical birth and physical death on earth). But is there a way in which reincarnation might be consistent with Catholic thought?

Hypothesis: Reincarnation existed in the pre-Christian world, and when Christ came, Christ ended the reincarnation process totally.

Could someone hold such a view, and be within the Catholic framework?

 

[water]

Yes, the CCC says that there is just one birth and one death (that is, physical birth and physical death on earth). But is there a way in which reincarnation might be consistent with Catholic thought?

Hypothesis: Reincarnation existed in the pre-Christian world, and when Christ came, Christ ended the reincarnation process totally.

Could someone hold such a view, and be within the Catholic framework?

Let me just go along with your hypothesis -
If a Christian, no matter he is Catholic or other non-Catholic Christian, believes in the opposite of what Jesus taught about reincarnation, then he does not believe in Jesus, His God.

 

[Ahimsa]

Let me just go along with your hypothesis -
If a Christian, no matter he is Catholic or other non-Catholic Christian, believes in the opposite of what Jesus taught about reincarnation, then he does not believe in Jesus, His God.

What did Jesus teach about reincarnation?

 

[water]

What did Jesus teach about reincarnation?

You say it "Yes, the CCC says that there is just one birth and one death (that is, physical birth and physical death on earth). "

Maybe you can help me show where the CCC says that.

 

[Ahimsa]

You say it "Yes, the CCC says that there is just one birth and one death (that is, physical birth and physical death on earth). "

Maybe you can help me show where the CCC says that.

1013 Death is the end of man’s earthly pilgrimage, of the time of grace and mercy which God offers him so as to work out his earthly life in keeping with the divine plan, and to decide his ultimate destiny. When “the single course of our earthly life” is completed,586 we shall not return to other earthly lives: "It is appointed for men to die once."587 There is no “reincarnation” after death.

Mind you, I’m only proposing that since Christ eliminated reincarnation, that it is now true that reincarnation doesn’t exist. But the possibility that reincarnation existed before Christ did His work, is what I’m talking about.

 

[water]

Both in OT and NT do not support about reincarnation.

Here is the verse from Old Testament saying about the Reincarnation

Job 14: 10-12: But when a man dies, all vigor leaves him, when man expires, where then is he? As when the waters of a lake fail, or a stream grows dry and parches, So men lie down and rise not again. Till the heavens are no more, they shall not awake, nor be roused out of their sleep."

And here is from New Testament:

Hebrews 9: 27 Just as it is appointed that human beings die once, and after this the judgment, so also Christ offered once to take away the sins of many, will appear.

 

[Ahimsa]

Both in OT and NT do not support about reincarnation.

Here is the verse from Old Testament saying about the Reincarnation

Job 14: 10-12: But when a man dies, all vigor leaves him, when man expires, where then is he? As when the waters of a lake fail, or a stream grows dry and parches, So men lie down and rise not again. Till the heavens are no more, they shall not awake, nor be roused out of their sleep."

And here is from New Testament:

Hebrews 9: 27 Just as it is appointed that human beings die once, and after this the judgment, so also Christ offered once to take away the sins of many, will appear.

Naturally, the NT would not support reincarnation, according to my theory, since Christ eliminated reincarnation.

As far as the OT quote is concerned, the fuller context of that quote is Job speaking to God. God isn’t saying this, but Job (who is not infallible):

7 "At least there is hope for a tree:
If it is cut down, it will sprout again,
and its new shoots will not fail.
8 Its roots may grow old in the ground
and its stump die in the soil,
9 yet at the scent of water it will bud
and put forth shoots like a plant.
10 But man dies and is laid low;
he breathes his last and is no more.
11 As water disappears from the sea
or a riverbed becomes parched and dry,
12 so man lies down and does not rise;
till the heavens are no more, men will not awake
or be roused from their sleep.
13 "If only you would hide me in the grave **(“http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=22&chapter=14&version=31#fen-NIV-13195b”)]
and conceal me till your anger has passed!
If only you would set me a time
and then remember me!
14 If a man dies, will he live again?
All the days of my hard service
I will wait for my renewal c] to come.

Unlike a tree, a dead man does not live again. However, the process of reincarnation doesn’t involve a dead man ‘re-growing’ like a tree does. Obviously, when Job denies that man will live again, he is denying that the same physical body will be revived in the manner of a cut-down tree. He’s not denying that man will live again in some form. In fact, verse 14 points to Job’s hope in living again.

Now, of course, verse 14 can also point to the Christian resurrection. But it doesn’t exclude reincarnation, as well.

 

[water]

King David - the prophet was going beyond what Job was hoping for:

Psalm 51:10,12: Create in me a clean heart, O God,
and renew a right spirit within me.
Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation
and uphold me with thy free spirit.

It was not reincarnation of flesh that he was hoping for but the spirit.

In the new testament, Jesus came to clear up all the questions about reincarnation.

My conclusion, if a Christian believes such flesh incarnation, he does not believe the Word of God.

 

[Ahimsa]

King David - the prophet was going beyond what Job was hoping for:

Psalm 51:10,12: Create in me a clean heart, O God,
and renew a right spirit within me.
Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation
and uphold me with thy free spirit.

It was not reincarnation of flesh that he was hoping for but the spirit.

So you do believe in ‘reincarnation of the spirit’? I would agree with that.

In the new testament, Jesus came to clear up all the questions about reincarnation.

My conclusion, if a Christian believes such flesh incarnation, he does not believe the Word of God.

That’s consistent with my hypothesis.

 

[water]

So you do believe in ‘reincarnation of the spirit’? I would agree with that.

I might not understand you clearly on ‘reincarnation of the spirit’ - could you give me an example for it?

What I truly believe is that, for instance, at this moment, if I die, my soul either goes to Hell, Purgatory or Heaven. If I go to the Purgatory, my soul will eventually one day be able to see God Face to Face …which is in Heaven. On the other hand, if my soul ends up in Hell, my soul is there forever - I have no where to hide, no where to run.

 

[FCEGM]

Yes, the CCC says that there is just one birth and one death (that is, physical birth and physical death on earth). But is there a way in which reincarnation might be consistent with Catholic thought?

Hypothesis: Reincarnation existed in the pre-Christian world, and when Christ came, Christ ended the reincarnation process totally.

Could someone hold such a view, and be within the Catholic framework?

No

 

[Ahimsa]

I might not understand you clearly on ‘reincarnation of the spirit’ - could you give me an example for it?

By ‘reincarnation of the spirit’ I mean the physical body remains in the ground, but the spirit takes on a new body (whether physical body or glorified body).

What I truly believe is that, for instance, at this moment, if I die, my soul either goes to Hell, Purgatory or Heaven. If I go to the Purgatory, my soul will eventually one day be able to see God Face to Face …which is in Heaven. On the other hand, if my soul ends up in Hell, my soul is there forever - I have no where to hide, no where to run.

That’s consistent with my hypothesis: We are living in the time after Christ, so therefore, reincarnation is no more. After Christ, after you die, it’s hell, heaven, or purgatory.

 

[Ahimsa]

No

Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[water]

By ‘reincarnation of the spirit’ I mean the physical body remains in the ground, but the spirit takes on a new body (whether physical body or glorified body).

ahh, I understand clearly now. I do not believe that.

That’s consistent with my hypothesis: We are living in the time after Christ, so therefore, reincarnation is no more. After Christ, after you die, it’s hell, heaven, or purgatory.

We can think of purgatory where souls will be prepared for seeing God face-to-face, but I wouldn’t put that in the same category with reincarnation. It is the same soul that would be lifted up to Heaven.

 

[Ahimsa]

ahh, I understand clearly now. I do not believe that.

OK. But ‘reincarnation’ of the spirit is not something I’m arguing for either.

We can think of purgatory where souls will be prepared for seeing God face-to-face, but I wouldn’t put that in the same category with reincarnation. It is the same soul that would be lifted up to Heaven.

I agree that purgatory is not reincarnation. My hypothesis simply says that (1) reincarnation has not happened since Christ; and therefore (2) it is true to say that reincarnation does not exist (because Christ eliminated it).

 

[water]

btw, I read your profile (trying to stalk you ), and it says your religion is “Indu Christic”. I googled but has no information about it; I am guessing you are also a Catholic as you mentioned about purgatory?

 

[water]

OK. But ‘reincarnation’ of the spirit is not something I’m arguing for either.

I agree that purgatory is not reincarnation. My hypothesis simply says that (1) reincarnation has not happened since Christ; and therefore (2) it is true to say that reincarnation does not exist (because Christ eliminated it).

at least not for us, but we do know that Jesus will come again, but I don’t know what he will look like …assuming He will be as same as He was?

 

[Ahimsa]

btw, I read your profile (trying to stalk you ), and it says your religion is “Indu Christic”. I googled but has no information about it; I am guessing you are also a Catholic as you mentioned about purgatory?

One doesn’t have to be Catholic, to believe in purgatory.

“Indu Christic” – you won’t find it anywhere. I’m the only member. It’s a type of “Hindu Christianity”. I believe in Christ, but I also hold many Hindu beliefs.

 

[Ahimsa]

at least not for us, but we do know that Jesus will come again, but I don’t know what he will look like …assuming He will be as same as He was?

Do we really know what He looked like the first time?

 

[water]

One doesn’t have to be Catholic, to believe in purgatory.

“Indu Christic” – you won’t find it anywhere. I’m the only member. It’s a type of “Hindu Christianity”. I believe in Christ, but I also hold many Hindu beliefs.

Ohh, hehe, you’re tricky.
I hope one day we all have the same faith and belief. I am praying for it everyday. I am glad that you are believing in Christ. I probably read some info on the belief of “Hindu Christianity” and hopefully we can have some more discussions - or I can welcome you to start a new thread on other Hindu beliefs that you hold.