Reintroduction of Tridentine Rite ecumenical?

[Pax_et_Caritas]

Is it conceivable that His Holiness has reintroduced the Tradentine Rite as an act of ecumenism to pave the way towards greater unity and consistency with Holy Orthodox?

I can think of no other reason given that most to whom the Tradentine Mass was so meaningful have died which leaves only one other explanation that I can think of. I just wonder if His Holiness intends to reintroduce the longer period of fasting - consistent with Holy Orthodoxy and the reintroduction of fasting on Wednesdays and Fridays - which some Catholics never did give up!

Any thoughts?

Blessings and peace

I think you have it wrong. The Pope is not reintroducing the old Mass. What he did in Summorum Pontificum was to admit that the Old Mass was never forbidden and was actually always permitted.

During those 37 years when Catholics were led to believe that the Old Mass was forbidden, and was only permitted by a special “indult”, they were being misled. Virtually everyone in authority misled the faithful for the past 37 years, while those who knew and spoke the truth on this point (the Traditionalists) were ridiculed as being “disobedient” and “schismatic” for refusing to abandon the old Mass. Pope Benedict simply admitted the truth - that the Traditionalists were right all along and virtually the entire hierarchy was dead wrong.

The Pope is not bringing back a previous liturgy. He simply admitted that it is now, and always was, permitted. For that Pope Benedict deserves much praise.

 

[Hesychios]

Is it conceivable that His Holiness has reintroduced the Tradentine Rite as an act of ecumenism to pave the way towards greater unity and consistency with Holy Orthodox?

Any thoughts?

Blessings and peace

I would not try to read into these actions from the Pope’s perspective. But I will say that the partial restoration of the older liturgy is something of a welcome sign to Orthodox. Orthodox are not unaware of what has been going on liturgically in the west in the last four decades, and it generally is viewed negatively. To some extent this is probably true for some eastern Catholics as well.

But it must be recognized that the problems between the eastern church and the Papacy are first and foremost theological ones. The liturgical problems in the Papal Latin Church may be an embarrassment, but they are not the original cause of our divisions, they are housekeeping issues. Fixing them, while nice, will not bring us together if nothing else changes. Pope Benedict probably realizes this.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

Why? Of all the things that have caused me to scratch my head in this place is why some people desire the TLM in parishes where they will never attend and where no body wants it.

Because it is an orthodox, doctrinally strong, beautiful liturgy. I’m sure a lot of teachers don’t take a poll on whether or not they are going to teach Shakespeare in English class, or worry about whether anybody “wants it.”

Nobody wants it? Or perhaps many have never even seen it.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

How would greater use of the Tridentine Mass within the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church promote “unity and consistency” with the Orthodox Churches?

The Orthodox Churches have their own separate and distinct liturgies and traditions. I doubt they would be concerned or even bothered about liturgical changes in the west because it does not affect them directly. The Eastern Churches do not use either form of the Roman rite, and it would seem unlikely that they would be interested in any changes to these Masses.

Unity does not depend on liturgy; it depends on doctrine. There will be no unity between the East and West until the Orthodox can reconcile latin theological developments with their own doctrinal positions. Doctrine is a far more important consideration in ecumenical debate; in comparison, liturgy seems somewhat insignificant.

Actually, liturgy is essential for unity (though doctrine is essential as well). After all, if we take a look at how much disunity the Novus Ordo (whether one likes the form or not) has helped introduce into the Church after its introduction we can see the importance of liturgy in helping to maintain (or disrupt) the Church’s unity.

The Orthodox do take the liturgy quite seriously (much more seriously than many Catholics as they look at it as a gateway to God.)

I have heard some Orthodox (i.e. Franky Schaeffer, Francis Schaeffer’s son) heavily criticize what Catholics have done to their liturgy over the past forty years. I am also reminded of Catholics like Rod Dreher who became Catholic and then Orthodox and one of the primary reasons was that he simply couldn’t stand what had happened to the Catholic Church’s liturgy.

While theological differences are quite important, I do believe, before any reunification took place, the Orthodox would want some kind of assurance that they could keep practicing their liturgies and not have to switch to the Novus Ordo or that a Pope at a future time wouldn’t just impose it on them.

I of course don’t know the Pope’s mind. However, the introduction of the Novus Ordo did absolutely nothing to draw us closer to the Orthodox (in fact it probably had the opposite effect).

Since there would seem to be a far greater chance for reconciliation with the Orthodox than any Protestant denomination (as Catholic and Orthodox doctrine agree on so many points) it would make sense that perhaps one of the ideas in mind in freeing up the Gregorian rite was to help assure the Orthodox that we as Catholics would not force the Orthodox to adopt the Novus Ordo since we allow an ancient rite as well.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

How would greater use of the Tridentine Mass within the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church promote “unity and consistency” with the Orthodox Churches?

The Orthodox Churches have their own separate and distinct liturgies and traditions. I doubt they would be concerned or even bothered about liturgical changes in the west because it does not affect them directly. The Eastern Churches do not use either form of the Roman rite, and it would seem unlikely that they would be interested in any changes to these Masses.

Unity does not depend on liturgy; it depends on doctrine. There will be no unity between the East and West until the Orthodox can reconcile latin theological developments with their own doctrinal positions. Doctrine is a far more important consideration in ecumenical debate; in comparison, liturgy seems somewhat insignificant.

Actually, liturgy is essential for unity (though doctrine is essential as well). After all, if we take a look at how much disunity the Novus Ordo (whether one likes the form or not) has helped introduce into the Church after its introduction we can see the importance of liturgy in helping to maintain (or disrupt) the Church’s unity.

The Orthodox do take the liturgy quite seriously (much more seriously than many Catholics as they look at it as a gateway to God.)

I have heard some Orthodox (i.e. Franky Schaeffer, Francis Schaeffer’s son) heavily criticize what Catholics have done to their liturgy over the past forty years. I am also reminded of Catholics like Rod Dreher who became Catholic and then Orthodox and one of the primary reasons was that he simply couldn’t stand what had happened to the Catholic Church’s liturgy.

While theological differences are quite important, I do believe, before any reunification took place, the Orthodox would want some kind of assurance that they could keep practicing their liturgies and not have to switch to the Novus Ordo or that a Pope at a future time wouldn’t just impose it on them.

I of course don’t know the Pope’s mind. However, the introduction of the Novus Ordo did absolutely nothing to draw us closer to the Orthodox (in fact it probably had the opposite effect).
Since there would seem to be a far greater chance for reconciliation with the Orthodox than any Protestant denomination (as Catholic and Orthodox doctrine agree on so many points) it would make sense that perhaps one of the ideas in mind in freeing up the Gregorian rite was to help assure the Orthodox that we as Catholics would not force the Orthodox to adopt the Novus Ordo since we allow an ancient rite as well.