Rejecting the Motu Proprio....at Steubenville?

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DustinsDad said:
This is a spin off of another thread - but it was brought up that there may be some, eh, problems implementing the Holy Father’s Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum at the Franciscan University at Steubenville.

Here’s Father Z’s reporting of the situation from WDTPRS:

Franciscan University at Steubenville and Summorum Pontificum - UPDATED

Comments anyone? .

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad
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This is a brand-new issue to me.

Two thoughts:
  1. isn’t a “petition approach” more relevant to the way we might seek something from government but NOT from the Church. It reminds me of “democracy goes wild” and that makes me see it as an unreasonable approach with this particular issue.
  2. maybe (I’m looking for logic here) the Franciscans would take deep offense at being apporached via “petition” forces. They are not exactly politically invoved. Their spirituality is very humble, simple and face-to-face.
That’s my initial comment.
 
I heard about this over at Phatmass where they are having a three page conversation on it (as of now). There are some graduates and students over there talking about it.

It boarders on gossipy, but as someone who was thinking of applying there… it was helpful. Gives me a better look at what some of the thoughts are there. Still a good school. Shocking though that this is happening (especially with like close to 200 people wanting it). I think people should read the comments at phatmass. It gives a better look into it.

This is kind of sad. 😦 Let us pray that all of this can be resolved so that everyone is happy. :gopray2:
 
catharina said:
This is a brand-new issue to me.

Two thoughts:
  1. isn’t a “petition approach” more relevant to the way we might seek something from government but NOT from the Church. It reminds me of “democracy goes wild” and that makes me see it as an unreasonable approach with this particular issue.
  2. maybe (I’m looking for logic here) the Franciscans would take deep offense at being apporached via “petition” forces. They are not exactly politically invoved. Their spirituality is very humble, simple and face-to-face.
That’s my initial comment.
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Actually, there’s nothing really wrong with a petition. In fact, it might actually be the easiest way to organize your data in this situation. I believe Summorum Pontificum said that there needs to be a significant amount of people(not a whole lot, just not 2 people) wanting the TLM for it to become an obligation for the priest to say one.

No offense to the poor Franciscans, but saying the His Holiness’s Motu Proprio doesn’t affect them is like saying only the Jesuits believe in eternal salvation. It’s madness. Plus, Summorum Pontificum was specifically made to target the clergy. Last time I checked, Franciscan priests were part of the clergy. Are they not?
 
I believe Summorum Pontificum said that there needs to be a significant amount of people(not a whole lot, just not 2 people) wanting the TLM for it to become an obligation for the priest to say one.
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So 50 separate individual requests don’t count? Seems that those opposing the TLM will find any loophole to keep it away.

For example, I live in an area where I feel there are no other supporters of the TLM. But, since I drive out of the area to attend Mass, how do I know if there are other supporters of the TLM here? Sure, I know several people who go to the local church but they’re just the “whatever it takes to fulfill the Sabbath obligation” and that’s it. Since it takes more than one to approach a priest on the TLM, seems as if the M.P. does nothing for unorganized “groups” who desire the TLM or even those that are just open to attending one if it’s offered locally. And let’s face it, most don’t want to travel more than several blocks to attend Mass. Contrast that with the local Muslim mosque which has no such problem.
 
Steubenville is doctrinally and morally a orthodox college. However, they are very into the charismatic movement. I see this as a political agenda, the priests don’t want to divide the students on campus. This could be a total war between those who favor the charismatic movement and those who don’t. Since there is a petition for the moto proprio, then I see that it is already starting. Hopefully the two spiritualities can co-exist.
 
BritishCatholic said:
Actually, there’s nothing really wrong with a petition. In fact, it might actually be the easiest way to organize your data in this situation. I believe Summorum Pontificum said that there needs to be a significant amount of people(not a whole lot, just not 2 people) wanting the TLM for it to become an obligation for the priest to say one.
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I am not sure but I do not believe that the Motu Proprio puts an obligation on any priest to celebrate the extraordinary form, it just gives them a right to do so if they wish. I believe that it puts the onus on the bishop to supply a priest who is willing to do so when there is a “stable group” requesting it.
No offense to the poor Franciscans, but saying the His Holiness’s Motu Proprio doesn’t affect them is like saying only the Jesuits believe in eternal salvation. It’s madness. Plus, Summorum Pontificum was specifically made to target the clergy. Last time I checked, Franciscan priests were part of the clergy. Are they not?
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I think they may be onto something here. The Motu Proprio is aimed at bishops and grants the right to all Latin Catholic priests to celebrate the extraordinary form privately or semi-privately, it does not require them to do so. Franciscan University is not the Church, it is a college, the bishop may require them to offer the extraordinary form but to do so he must be contacted. Asking the school to do it is not the way to go if they wish to force this into happening.
 
ByzCath said:
I am not sure but I do not believe that the Motu Proprio puts an obligation on any priest to celebrate the extraordinary form, it just gives them a right to do so if they wish. I believe that it puts the onus on the bishop to supply a priest who is willing to do so when there is a “stable group” requesting it.
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I believe if you check the documents you will find that the word translated stable does not appear in the Holy Father’s writing. It seems to have mysteriously materialized in the English version circulated in the U.S.

JSA
 
blackrobe said:
I believe if you check the documents you will find that the word translated stable does not appear in the Holy Father’s writing. It seems to have mysteriously materialized in the English version circulated in the U.S.

JSA
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Yes, a more accurate translation would be something like a “group which exists stably”. Which really means about the same thing…it means a group that is likely to continue.
 
SP art 5 §1 … ubi coetus fidelium traditioni liturgicae antecedenti adhaerentium continenter exsistit …

The adverb “continenter” modifies the verb “existit” (exists) rather than the noun phrase “coetus fidelium” (group of the faithful). True, “stabiliter” is not used here (the code uses “stabiliter” in c. 515). However, “continenter” does have the sense of an action or condition which is unbroken or continuous though.

Since Latin’s not my mother tongue, I won’t opine here about the distinctions between “continenter” and “stabiliter.” Someone else probably could.
 
I can’t speak to the specifics of the Franciscans at Steubenville but can speak to the fact that Franciscan sprituality (and indeed the spirituality being upheld at other RC universities) leads me to believe that the last way to approach this issue would be through petition. Couldn’t teachers, advisers take up this desire in private with Administration? If that approach failed, then they could take it to Provinical Franciscans or even to the local bishop - but instead they involved the students? That’s very poor form. Acceptable as an American political practice, sure, but to do it within the Church? I can’t imagine such an approach proving successful.
 
DustinsDad said:
Code: 
   Съжаляваме, но няма постове, които да отговарят на Вашите критерии!
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The above is all I got when I clicked on the link to Fr. Z’s blog. I tried, unsuccessfully, to get it translated online.
 
Psalm45_9 said:
Steubenville is doctrinally and morally a orthodox college. However, they are very into the charismatic movement. I see this as a political agenda, the priests don’t want to divide the students on campus. This could be a total war between those who favor the charismatic movement and those who don’t. Since there is a petition for the moto proprio, then I see that it is already starting. Hopefully the two spiritualities can co-exist.
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I can’t see how sincere Catholics can go to war against each other over a VALID AND REVERENTIAL MASS.

It should be noted that the Motu Proprio applies to Priests and they have Priests at Steubenville so it is irrelevant whether its at a University or not.

I think this Motu Proprio is the Humanae Vitae of the 21st Century in that it is really showing people’s TRUE COLORS
 
childofmary1143 said:
I can’t see how sincere Catholics can go to war against each other over a VALID AND REVERENTIAL MASS.

It should be noted that the Motu Proprio applies to Priests and they have Priests at Steubenville so it is irrelevant whether its at a University or not.

I think this Motu Proprio is the Humanae Vitae of the 21st Century in that it is really showing people’s TRUE COLORS
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Really, I haven’t heard a word of conflict over the return (expansion) of the Latin Mass. I’ve attended the NO Mass for forty+ years and find it very inspiring. I look forward to attending the TLM again too. My reasoning with the situation at this college tells me that somebody acted in a way that was not even ordinarily prudent. Really. Roman Catholics do not “petition” for change. I can’t think of an instance where such (political) action has worked within the Church - maybe because a public petition can so easily be seen as a source of scandal.
 
Can someone give me a little of what Fr. Z posted on this? I went to the website posted and this one topic comes up with nothing in the “posted” part of the page. I can get the other blogs to come up but not this one - I even tried clicking on the link on the page.

Brenda V.
 
Brenda_V said:
Can someone give me a little of what Fr. Z posted on this? I went to the website posted and this one topic comes up with nothing in the “posted” part of the page. I can get the other blogs to come up but not this one - I even tried clicking on the link on the page.

Brenda V.
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You are absolutely right - something happened to the page. Bizzare!

DustinsDad
 
catharina said:
… Really. Roman Catholics do not “petition” for change. I can’t think of an instance where such (political) action has worked within the Church - maybe because a public petition can so easily be seen as a source of scandal.
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A petition is merely a request. Following the guidelines of the motu proprio, it would only make sense that those who desire the Extraordinary Form would look around and see how much interest there is before making the request. That would be be the first question the powers-that-be would ask, and the first reason for declining the request if they didn’t have the information or were only guessing.

I mean good grief folks.

DustinsDad
 
catharina said:
Roman Catholics do not “petition” for change. I can’t think of an instance where such (political) action has worked within the Church - maybe because a public petition can so easily be seen as a source of scandal.
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Petitioning is very Catholic. If you go to the Catholic Encyclopedia and enter petition you can learn more about it. Individuals can petition or many individuals can petition. The Vatican even has forms and procedures for petitioning.

newadvent.org/cathen/11777a.htm
 
DustinsDad said:
A petition is merely a request. Following the guidelines of the motu proprio, it would only make sense that those who desire the Extraordinary Form would look around and see how much interest there is before making the request. That would be be the first question the powers-that-be would ask, and the first reason for declining the request if they didn’t have the information or were only guessing.

I mean good grief folks.

DustinsDad
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Except that the petitioning spoken of in the Motu Proprio is to the bishop, not a University. The bishop is the local ordinary who is responsible for all public celebrations of the Mass within his jurisdiction.
 
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