Rejection because of SSA

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

If I choose not to act on my weakness or the flesh, I have to replace it with something “good”, and what we are looking for in another as far as SSA goes, is really God’s love. We need to feed the Spirit so the spirit will grow. If we feed the flesh, the flesh will grow. There is a scripture that states this.

I know my need for a mother’s love to affirm me of who I am as a woman cannot be met through another woman, it has to be met in my relationship with God, since only He can fill this need for mom’s love now. The more we fill up on His love by spending time with Him, reading His Word, etc., the more we discover who we truly are, a child of God made in His image.

And at the same time we have to acknowledge we have a body with bodily needs or we then start moving toward the heresy of angelism.
We are not angels we are humans finding valid, authentic fufilment through relationship in the flesh.

Be careful of justifying your position through Scripture - every heresy you can think of can be supported by a quotation from Scripture. One reason the Bible was locked away from Catholic laity, lest they go astray in reading it. But I don’t intend to go down the path of Sola Scriptura, I feel it’s outside the perimeter of this dialogue.

 

[ladybri77]

And at the same time we have to acknowledge we have a body with bodily needs or we then start moving toward the heresy of angelism.
We are not angels we are humans finding valid, authentic fufilment through relationship in the flesh.

Be careful of justifying your position through Scripture - every heresy you can think of can be supported by a quotation from Scripture. One reason the Bible was locked away from Catholic laity, lest they go astray in reading it. But I don’t intend to go down the path of Sola Scriptura, I feel it’s outside the perimeter of this dialogue.

Well, we all know that if you continually abuse alcohol or food for instance, your addiction grows, i.e. the “flesh”. Now if you continually spend time with God, and you feel closer to Him as a result, your “Spirit” grows. This is what that scripture is referring to.

In regards to your first statement; just because I have needs, I refuse to sin, and I will not go out and find someone to relieve my need, i.e. have sex with them. I have bodily needs, yes, but my goal, and sometimes I fall short of it, is to honor God with my body until the day I find someone to marry, and then have sexual intercourse within marriage going along with what the church teaches and what Jesus teaches. If I do anything less with anyone, I mess myself up spiritually and emotionally.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

The word “integrity” comes from the same root as the word for “integration.”
The word “holy” comes from the same root as the word “whole.”
The spiritual life does not consist of separating “spirit” from “flesh” but in integrating and becoming whole.
You cannot find God outside of relationship with the flesh.

 

[ladybri77]

The word “integrity” comes from the same root as the word for “integration.”
The word “holy” comes from the same root as the word “whole.”
The spiritual life does not consist of separating “spirit” from “flesh” but in integrating and becoming whole.
You cannot find God outside of relationship with the flesh.

Okay, since God made us a whole person including the flesh…I am just referring to sins of the flesh, that’s all, not feeling or thinking or enjoying another person under legitimate, holy circumstances.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Okay, since God made us a whole person including the flesh…I am just referring to sins of the flesh, that’s all, not feeling or thinking or enjoying another person under legitimate, holy circumstances.

Since we don’t fully understand homosexuality I think it wrong to either sanction or condemn the act.
The world was once considered flat, and that the sun revolved around the earth.
The sin of Galileo was to challenge the Church’s right to interpret Scripture. Galileo was condemned as a heretic. Nicholas Copernicus taught the same astrology; he didn’t question the Church’s right to interpret Scripture. I don’t challenge their right - but do say there are things in this world we don’t fully understand.

 

[ladybri77]

Since we don’t fully understand homosexuality I think it wrong to either sanction or condemn the act.
The world was once considered flat, and that the sun revolved around the earth.
The sin of Galileo was to challenge the Church’s right to interpret Scripture. Galileo was condemned as a heretic. Nicholas Copernicus taught the same astrology; he didn’t question the Church’s right to interpret Scripture. I don’t challenge their right - but do say there are things in this world we don’t fully understand.

Yes, there are things we don’t fully understand. However, homosexuality has been researched for years by legitimate scientists, and many studies have been done. A gay “gene” has never been proven to be found thus far. A lot of the research indicates envinromental causes. Case in point, there was a therapist who had counseled over 100 male homosexuals, and the majority of them had been sexually abused. We know how devastating sexual and all kinds of abuse can be on people at a young age, how impressionable they are and what toll it has taken on them. Also, the effect of how emotional and verbal abuse by parents and peers can have on developing psyches. There is a website I have on the research that has been done, I’ll try to find it for you.

Believe me, if I had any question whether homosexuality was right or wrong, I would be in a relationship, however, I know first hand the depravity of it from experience and what God has revealed to me, and that which is backed up by the Church and Holy Scripture from which the church bases its commentary on the subject.

 

[Seatuck]

Pflag is not an acceptable group for a Catholic to look to for help. Courage/Encourage is the group that is approved.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Yes, there are things we don’t fully understand. However, homosexuality has been researched for years by legitimate scientists, and many studies have been done. A gay “gene” has never been proven to be found thus far.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Pflag is not an acceptable group for a Catholic to look to for help. Courage/Encourage is the group that is approved.

Courage/Encourage promotes chastity and celibacy. Homosexuals are respectfully treated as diseased.

Pflag promotes toleration and acceptance. Homosexuals are respectfully treated as people to be listened to.

 

[Seatuck]

Courage/Encourage promotes chastity and celibacy. Homosexuals are respectfully treated as diseased.

Pflag promotes toleration and acceptance. Homosexuals are respectfully treated as people to be listened to.

My personal experience is that the group goes beyond listening to and encourages acceptance in ways that are immoral for Catholics. We cannot support homosexual behavior. We can love our children who are suffering from SSA in a myriad of ways but still not go to a same sex wedding or allow them to sleep together in our homes and so on.

 

[ladybri77]

ladybri77;6889444:

Does the Church base its understanding of homosexuality on Scripture or cultural acceptance? Cultural norm which is read back into Scripture? A vicious circle.
There are abusive relationships in heterosexuality. This doesn’t necessarily make heterosexual relationships wrong.

It bases it on Scripture only.

 

[ladybri77]

Courage/Encourage promotes chastity and celibacy. Homosexuals are respectfully treated as diseased.

Pflag promotes toleration and acceptance. Homosexuals are respectfully treated as people to be listened to.

From firsthand experience with Courage, the people in the group are treated respectfully and with love as fellow Catholic believers who are struggling with sin and offers help and support to become celibate in their thoughts and actions.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

KEVIN WILCOX;6889830:

It bases it on Scripture only.

The Catholic Church bases it’s Teaching on Scripture and Tradition. The Protestant Churches claim to base their teaching on Scripture alone.

In the Catholic Church a lot of cultural acceptance has been wound up in interpretation - slavery, votes for women, the natural environment.
The Church’s view on war has considerably changed from “just war” to questioning if that too can be challenged.
At the moment homosexuality is officially frowned upon. Homosexuals treated as carrying a disease which must be treated.

 

[defenderoftruth]

*Kevin Wilcox said: (quote thing is messed up)
The Catholic Church bases it’s Teaching on Scripture and Tradition. The Protestant Churches claim to base their teaching on Scripture alone.

In the Catholic Church a lot of cultural acceptance has been wound up in interpretation - slavery, votes for women, the natural environment.
The Church’s view on war has considerably changed from “just war” to questioning if that too can be challenged.
At the moment homosexuality is officially frowned upon. Homosexuals treated as carrying a disease which must be treated.*

If you ever think that homosexuality is going to be “celebrated” in the Catholic Church or wholesale accepted you are sorely mistaken. Scripture and Tradition since the beginning have said homosexuality is not acceptable, those that suffer from SSA need prayer and spiritual guidance in accordance with Catholic teaching not what the MCC or the ECUSA or some other church that celebrates sin says. If you don’t like (obviously) what the Church teaches feel free to find a church that accepts your lifestyle and behavior as “godly” and or “normal”. (the above will do)

Sorry if I sound rude, but people that are open proud homosexuals that try to sway or lead astray those that are seeking God that struggle with SSA really tick me off. As though marching in a pride parade (I live in a big city and have sadly seen this first hand) can make you feel more at peace with God and The Church. (the SSA strugglers have already told you what their conscience says to them and yet you STILL persist on trying to sway them to your view).

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

defenderoftruth;6892754]**

If you ever think that homosexuality is going to be “celebrated” in the Catholic Church or wholesale accepted you are sorely mistaken.

“If” is a big word.
“Celebrated” I have not suggested.
I am not here to condemn - I am here advocating compassion and toleration.

Scripture and Tradition since the beginning have said homosexuality is not acceptable

,

There was a time when the Church taught nature is something to be subdued and dominated, now it turns kindly toward the ideology of ecology and environmentalism. Man in harmony with as opposed to man against nature.

those that suffer from SSA need prayer and spiritual guidance in accordance with Catholic teaching not what the MCC or the ECUSA or some other church that celebrates sin says.

Not one of us goes without the need for prayer and spiritual guidance in accordance with Catholic teaching.
I am not advocating celebration of sin; I am putting forward the idea we are all sinners. In accepting our own sinful nature we can learn to forgive one another.

If you don’t like (obviously) what the Church teaches feel free to find a church that accepts your lifestyle and behavior as “godly” and or “normal”. (the above will do)
Sorry if I sound rude, but people that are open proud homosexuals that try to sway or lead astray those that are seeking God that struggle with SSA really tick me off.

Are you presuming I am homosexual? You’re sounding very Pharisee. Didn’t they accuse Jesus in the same way.

As though marching in a pride parade (I live in a big city and have sadly seen this first hand) can make you feel more at peace with God and The Church. (the SSA strugglers have already told you what their conscience says to them and yet you STILL persist on trying to sway them to your view).

The only view I am advocating is one of toleration and compassion. What I say to those struggling is “Go in peace. Peace be with you.”
Condemnation and abuse never persuaded anyone. People must be allowed to come to their own understanding.

 

[defenderoftruth]

“If” is a big word.
“Celebrated” I have not suggested.
I am not here to condemn - I am here advocating compassion and toleration.

oh come on you are advocating acceptance of sin ie PFLAG??!!
,

There was a time when the Church taught nature is something to be subdued and dominated, now it turns kindly toward the ideology of ecology and environmentalism. Man in harmony with as opposed to man against nature.

And this has something to do with the subject at hand how? environmentalism/subduing is not the same as homosexuality, apples and oranges.

Not one of us goes without the need for prayer and spiritual guidance in accordance with Catholic teaching.
I am not advocating celebration of sin; I am putting forward the idea we are all sinners. In accepting our own sinful nature we can learn to forgive one another.

I’ve read all the posts on this thread this is clearly not what you are putting forth sorry.

Are you presuming I am homosexual? You’re sounding very Pharisee. Didn’t they accuse Jesus in the same way.

You stick up for it and try to sway others to “accept it about themselves” and celebrate it. If you aren’t a practicing homosexual you still do the above.

The only view I am advocating is one of toleration and compassion. You keep saying that, the modern day usage of toleration or the former usage ie to put up with. Real compassion is to help someone with their problem not try to get them to get into more problems. What I say to those struggling is “Go in peace. Peace be with you.” And to the church you say “how mean of you to have groups like Courage instead of PFLAG”… Your peace be with you is clearly "accept homosexuality and celebrate it don’t let someone try to help you fix the problem because it’s not a problem."
Condemnation and abuse never persuaded anyone. People must be allowed to come to their own understanding.

Acceptance and celebrating sin never helped anyone do anything except helping them go to hell.

The Church condemns the acts rightly, they don’t “abuse” homosexuals on the contrary they help them stop trying to abuse themselves spiritually, emotionally and physically.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

What’s with the dark red?
I have chosen to live by example, stay out of other people’s bedrooms, leaving sexual relations to those it concerns…and it doesn’t concern me.
How does it help me put a roof over my head… food on my table?
Who is my neighbour, should I walk with him / her or judge and condemn?
There is not one of us who is innocent of sin.
I choose not to live in a world of judgement and condemnation but one of love and forgiveness. In doing so at your hands I stand judged and condemned.

I have been in this world long enough and seen enough to learn the way of bullying never changed a person’s mind for the better, hetero- or homo- sexual.

 

[lufty]

Well you know, there aren’t many practising Catholic girls here. I think anything less would be a foolish thing.

To Alexander: you are correct, it is a medical, or psychological problem. It is not PC to say it, but then often the truth is not PC. I can say, as one afflicted, that SSA is indeed a psychological problem, as well as a spiritual problem (narcissism, idolatry, pride etc…). Whilst the world reassures one that everything is all ok (when it’s clearly not), only the Church tells us the good news of the truth which can set us free.

That’s an excellent summary - thanks PaulinVA!

Untrue. The American Psychiatric Association (APA) removed homosexuality from its official Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) in 1973. It is no longer considered a psychiatric or medical problem in this, and most countries on the planet. Remember to keep religious and secular opinions in perspective.

 

[defenderoftruth]

*What’s with the dark red?
I have chosen to live by example, stay out of other people’s bedrooms, leaving sexual relations to those it concerns…and it doesn’t concern me.
How does it help me put a roof over my head… food on my table?
Who is my neighbour, should I walk with him / her or judge and condemn?
There is not one of us who is innocent of sin.
I choose not to live in a world of judgement and condemnation but one of love and forgiveness. In doing so at your hands I stand judged and condemned.

I have been in this world long enough and seen enough to learn the way of bullying never changed a person’s mind for the better, hetero- or homo- sexual.*

**The dark red was so you and others can differentiate between my comments and yours and I like the color red besides black.

When it comes to friends and or family that are in the homosexual lifestyle it’s the loving thing to do to help them and try to get them out of the pit called homosexuality. When someone comes on to CA forum and asks our advice (which you yourself gave) we give it. Now you act as though you didn’t give advice and can’t give advice because it’s “judging” if you disagree with them. I’ve judged you yes, by what your comments are on this thread as being very unCatholic (go to PFLAG instead of Courage). I haven’t “condemned” you, I never said or implied that you are going to hell. I think you gave bad advice that is not in keeping with Catholic belief. Real love tries to help those in need (when you KNOW what they are doing is hurting themselves-by what The Church teaches on the matter) One can receive forgiveness for their homosexual acts by renouncing them, confessing them and trying not to repeat them. NOT from listening to people to tell them to accept them, celebrate them and ignore Church teaching because they disagree with it. I’ve been in this world long enough and debated enough to know when the “your attacking me” victimization thing starts when the person is confronted for their comments. Really Kevin you’ve done nothing but stick up for homosexual behavior and try to sway those with SSA to “accept themselves” (they have just not in the way YOU think they should) by suggesting PFLAG and dogging Courage not to mention the Church itself. Then it’s the “your judging and condemning me” thing because I call you on it.

Bullying can also come in the form of passive aggressiveness and trying to sway someone that clearly is not interested in going down a path. (like the people on here that struggle with SSA being told over and over about “accepting who you are” or “who are you really do you know” when they say that they aren’t interested in homosexual behavior/culture anymore.

Look you can keep repeating over and over your “I’m only here for tolerance etc. etc.” Well try tolerating someone that says they aren’t interested in living a homosexual lifestyle, fighting the SSA they have and leave them alone. I’ve said what I have to say, I’m done conversing with you. I don’t think you are a horrible person either, but I do think that you are wrong, and are giving advice that is not in keeping with Catholic belief. There are a lot of homosexuals and their PFLAG friends that want acceptance and tolerance but can’t ever seem to give it to those that disagree with them or want nothing more to do with the homosexual lifestyle.

They should try to practice what they preach. BTW, I don’t believe in “tolerating”-(old or new definition) homosexuality (the culture/acts). I think tolerating it ruins society (just look at the pride parades!) **

 

[defenderoftruth]

Untrue. The American Psychiatric Association (APA) removed homosexuality from its official Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) in 1973. It is no longer considered a psychiatric or medical problem in this, and most countries on the planet. Remember to keep religious and secular opinions in perspective.

It’s not the first time the medical world would be wrong. Men hating themselves so much they mutilate themselves because they want to be a woman can’t be considered a sane thing to do. Or a woman acting and dressing like a man desperately trying to be a man and yet, hating men because she knows she’ll never be one-not a sane thing either. (granted not all lesbians fit this bill)

Homosexuality is just as the CCC says “disordered”.