Because the response e was looking for isn’t going to benefit him or his girlfriend.He’s looking for a very specific response.
We didn’t give it.
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pensmama87
Guest
Possibility that the OP is not genuine. It happens. Thread starts with a supposed “hard question,” question is answered and opinions given, OP shifts and throws in a few digs at Catholics for being “mean”, and round and round it goes.
It’s possible that the OP is genuine - CAF pops up early in search results, and there’s lots of misunderstanding and hurt where the Church is concerned, but it happens a lot, and the OP’s behavior seems more and more baiting (especially all the feelings being hurt - nobody likes being criticized, but really, I think people have been very nice to the OP, if straightforward. Doesn’t really fit the typical “mean librul fake Catholic feminists attack poor conservative Catholic man trying to do the right thing” accusation, or the “the Catholic Church is so oppressive and impossible to live by and practicing Catholics are all mean and don’t want us to have all the fun” - the former being an accusation particular to CAF, the latter being an accusation against Catholics in general).
That too.He’s looking for a very specific response.
We didn’t give it.
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Trident_H
Guest
Ok. I think we’re moving in the right direction here. Understanding’s getting a bit more crystal.
So last thing on the list. I’m gonna defend the people here on all fronts. Because of the way they handled me when I first came here. I mean I had a bit of the taste of the bitter and cold in my heart when I got here. A recovering addict. With no real world family. So bitter? Yeah.
But I found a lot of compassion here. A lot of free carrying. It got me out of my tailspin. And again when I slipped backwards. But it also came with some firm points of what I was doing wrong.
So this is my family now. This is what I protect and stand with. If you take the advice and work it in it leaves you with more peace than fire.
Also as an add. No one wants you to dump your girl. We just want you to change. And if you can’t change? Well then what would you really give as advice to a guy like you with a question like yours? I mean really? What would you have wanted to hear? That it was Ok? That you didn’t have to do anything? That you should do up a pros and cons list and lean with the majority? That you should try not to look at her? I mean honestly. Really honestly. What kind of advice have you been getting that works for you?
Thanks for sticking with this. I think like all instruction in truth it stings at first. But I think you’ll get to a better place through here. It just might not seem that way at first.
You should read some of my first posts for some good examples of that.
I’m a bit of work in progress.
We all are.
Peace Jayson. I’m gonna follow this up with a PM. Get ready.
-Trident
Ahhh…I hate it when threads become: Is the OP trolling or not?
Though recently there was a thread that someone was definitely trolling and posting quotes onto a different site. CA ended up deleting it.
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JasontheRed
Guest
Alright, if you want me to come out and say it she has a major birth defect. It’s obvious to other people. She talks about how she’s been discriminated against her whole life because of her looks. People stare at her and my family has said things about it as I talked about in my previous posts.
You might read it that way but, I certainly don’t feel that way. I feel like she’s is doing me a favor by dating me. I’m far from perfect. But, she sees some good in me worth encouraging and supporting. All I was saying is that I am willing to look past her defect and most men are not. I never said I was superior.
First off it’s not a threat. It’s a personal decision based on my experiences not only here but in my church. I already attend other churches have an open view on denominations and she shares that with me. I’m just tired of the majority of the church imitating the Pharisees and not imitating Jesus. Even when we have a amazing example in Pope Francis. I don’t know that I’ll leave the church. It’s just how I’m feeling right now.
As I said I do! I’ve talked about how beautiful she is to me throughout this thread. Read below please.
I think this is the main point in which I think there is a misunderstanding. I’ll use a more candid example to explain. Please don’t think I’m stating this is like my situation. But, let’s say your spouse was disfigured in a accident. While, after the accident she may appear unattractive to the world, you would still find her beautiful because you love her and she is your soulmate. That’s how I feel about her. I understand people look at her differently and many seem to look at her as unattractive. But, because I love her she is beautiful to me. Does that make sense? I’m talking about two different types of beauty. Worldly beauty and Godly beauty. Relative and Ultimate.
The struggle I was dealing with is that there is a shallow part of me that desires to be with the type of woman the “World” tells me your supposed to desire. Also, there is a lot of pressure from my family. I don’t want to feel that way. She’s precious in so many ways and I’d be the luckiest guy in the world to be with her. I have already bought a engagement ring. I was coming to get past my insecurities to commit.
Yes, I got super defensive here and didn’t think before I replied to some degree. I think almost everyone else here did the same. They replied based on their emotions or from a place that wounded their own insecurities.
Brother, I am thankful that you think you are sticking up for her. I think you’re just reading it the wrong way and I posted something in a public way that most people wouldn’t. I see now that was a big mistake.
Well that puts a bit of context to it at least. Well, firstly as regards leaving the church…I would urge you to reconsider that. There may be some people who act pharisaical but it’s certainly not the majority. You say yourself that Pope Francis is a good example. Well, perhaps we all need to be a bit more like him!
Regarding your situation. I would say there’s only a few questions to ask. Do you love this girl? Is she beautiful to you? Do you really care what other people think?
If you love her and you can get past the shallow thoughts of other people…then it doesn’t matter what she looks like. If you are happy to commit to this woman for life then it’s nobody else’s business.
If you’ve already bought an engagement ring then it sounds like you’re serious.
Here’s an exercise for you that I did before I proposed to my future wife. (and still do as my wedding approaches)
Google “Catholic Wedding Vows” and read through the vows.
Reflect on the commitment that Catholic marriage entails…if you can genuinely see yourself able to say those vows to your girlfriend in front of God, then I don’t see why anyone else’s opinion should stop you.
As I said in my initial post, you should take these “shallow” feelings before God and ask Him to purify them. All of us in Catholic relationships should be doing this on a regular basis anyway.
God bless
J
JasontheRed
Guest
Maybe you can clarify what everyone is asking me to change. I"ve heard a couple constructive things in the posts. But, I’m curious what you you think that is, from an outside perspective?
But, you see I feel like a lot of this isn’t based in the reality of the actual situation. That it’s being misunderstood. There is no victim here. I don’t emotionally or physically abuse her. We have a great relationship. I’ve never told her anything that would hurt her. I treat her like a princess. But, yet I’m so bad because I had a honest human feeling… I just don’t get the reaction unless it’s a preformed reaction based on the sensitive theme of the poor girl and the abusive guy. But, that’s not what is happening here!
I do appreciate you though brother. I feel like you’re not trying to be mean but, help. Thank you. I think there is just a big misunderstanding here. I’ve always had a difficult time communicating…
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JasontheRed
Guest
You’re right I’m probably being unfair to the majority. It just seems to be the majority in my own church… Maybe I just need to find a different catholic church… You walk in before mass and people give dirty looks. People don’t want to hardly shake your hand when we offer a sign of peace. I hate to stereotype but, part of the problem is that I live in a upper class neighborhood. There are almost no young people between the ages of 20-40. The parking lot could be a luxury car dealership yet, most people put in a dollar bill during the collection… I asked to speak to one of the deacons or priests a couple times about a getting confirmed and I got a response that they don’t have time to personally meet with people… The priest seems angry most the time…
However, there are a few of the most loving, generous and saintly people I’ve ever known there. I think that has been the only thing keeping me going and knowing that the Catholic and Orthodox churches are the only ones that I can align with on theology.
Amen!
I love her more than you could know. I feel like God led me to her. I think she is beautiful because of who she is. But there is also a lot of chemistry when I’m close to her. I keep a photo of her as my phone and computer background and look at it everyday when I’m missing her. I hate being away from her. But, yeah sometimes I care to much about what others think. I know that’s a problem. That’s what I need prayers to overcome.
Thank you. I think this is also why I got defensive here…
Great advice! Thanks man. I’ll be sure to look at them.
I’m praying for this everyday. I just need to be patient that God can take care of this.
Thanks for your reply. I appreciate what you had to say.
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1ke
Guest
I think that if you had said the below in your first post, the replies would have been significantly different. Because context is everything. Your first post did not at ALL convey what this post does:
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Trident_H
Guest
I think at first there was a general want to see you stare down anyone who thought your girl wasn’t pretty. I think many wanted to see some kind of rough and ready stance on that.
Then I think it had something to do with you at first thinking ugliness might be a deal breaker (because otherwise why else would you have asked?). So some of us wanted you to either decide it wasn’t in concrete terms. Or to be willing to leave her alone if it was. I mean that was the bulk of comments. “If you can’t stand to look at her by all means don’t go any further!” Because buddy we didn’t know. We were only going with our first impression. Based on the way your question came out.
But now I think a lot of us really just want you to be less sensitive about what other people think of your girl. I think a lot of us want to give you a supportive hug and nudge you into the stance of a faithful boyfriend. We want to see you move past your doubts and past your easy upset at misunderstandings and to instead deliver into our eyes a strong and confident guy who’ll fight for his girl’s honor. Hand us that and we’re satisfied. That’s what the needlings’ about.
Well. In fairness. You asked for advice. But only gave us half the info. Then got sort of upset because we got the wrong idea? So yeah. Miscommunication.
But now I’m getting the idea you never wanted hard advice. That you just wanted to vent your frustrations about feeling a bit conflicted in what to do. Like you maybe had this guilty secret. But didn’t know how to handle it. But didn’t really want anyone to resolve the conflict. You just wanted us to say something special. But nothing too specific?
I’m still not sure what you wanted from us though. Did you just want someone to say it’s Ok? That beauty’s not just skin deep? But you already knew that. You already said as much a couple of times.
Were you just looking for a reaction? Were you expecting some of us to admit to marrying ugly people and being perfectly happy? I think that’s where this thing came unglued.
Because there were really only 3 ways for us to answer this. We either had to agree with you that your girlfriend was ugly but somehow you might be able to find it in your heart to forget about it. Or we had to tell you not to hurt this girl. Either by being shallow or by pretending it doesn’t bother you when it does and so maybe hold it against her later.
Or we had to try to get you to change your angle on this. To get you to change your way of dealing with your family. To change your level of sensitivity. To change your character in some way so it wouldn’t matter to you anymore about what she looked like or what others thought. In a genuine way.
I’m not really sure what other choices were left?
But I will tell you this. I will say it is fair to say this might be a real dilemma to some people. It’s fair to think that you might grow to be distracted by her deformity when the first fire of love fades. It’s fair to feel like you’ll always be known as that couple with the girl who’s got that feature.
So it’s fair to ask if you think that matters to you. I mean does it matter more than the chance at real happiness with a person of real depth? A Godly depth? There’s a trade off in this. And you know it. So is it fair to ask you what advice you’d give someone in your situation? Is it fair to serve you a choice from the 3 options above and ask which way you think would most likely leave you guys happiest?
I don’t know man. So much of this depends on what kind of guy you really are. And only you can tell us that. We’ve set you up a dozen different ways. But only you really know the truth. This is something you need to think about in a deep way.
Let us know what you come up with. I’ll pray for you in the meantime.
Peace buddy.
-Trident
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1ke
Guest
So given that your beloved has an obvious birth defect or deformity of some kind, and that people say unkind things (including your own family), I think that yes some sort of counseling on boundary setting is important for you.
I think the “don’t care what other people think” part is just going to have to come from inside you. It seems like it already is-- now that you’ve had time to reflect through these posts it seems you are rejecting your own original premise and starting to accept that you love her and so to hell with what others are saying.
But it’s also important for the two of you to come up with your own strategy for how you will deal with rude and obnoxious people you will encounter together in life. Has she had any counseling over the years to deal with these sorts of things?
I think the “don’t care what other people think” part is just going to have to come from inside you. It seems like it already is-- now that you’ve had time to reflect through these posts it seems you are rejecting your own original premise and starting to accept that you love her and so to hell with what others are saying.
But it’s also important for the two of you to come up with your own strategy for how you will deal with rude and obnoxious people you will encounter together in life. Has she had any counseling over the years to deal with these sorts of things?
By the way, OP. Regarding your church, perhaps you could find another parish. If you live in a big city there are probably other Catholic Churches you could attend.
I was reading your last response to my comment and I couldn’t help but smile.
I was reading your last response to my comment and I couldn’t help but smile.
The more I read through, the more I can see that this is the case. God bless you, I will be keeping you and your beloved in my prayers.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
If the condition is genetic, there needs to be a discussion between you and her to find out how you wish to handle raising children that may have a birth defect. Of course none of that suggests that you should not Marry, have children or be anything less than s prolific catholic family. Nor does it even Assumes that her condition is genetic.
Lastly, a word of caution about the forums, or any online community. I have thousands of posts that deal with my family. There is not a single one that I would not have my wife read. That is something to consider when posting. Though this is an anonymous forum the Internet is free range. Ask the Ashley Madison folks about privacy!
Have you two discussed this issue?
Lastly, a word of caution about the forums, or any online community. I have thousands of posts that deal with my family. There is not a single one that I would not have my wife read. That is something to consider when posting. Though this is an anonymous forum the Internet is free range. Ask the Ashley Madison folks about privacy!
Have you two discussed this issue?
LaughingBoy1503
Well-known member
Do not leave The Church over some anonymous internet strangers. Remember what I said… KEYBOARD WARRIORS. God bless.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
I have not seen any keyboard warrioring on this thread. Though it certainly exists everywhere. I can only speak for myself but I think everyone here on this entire thread has posted pretty much what we would have said had the op told us this in our own parishes over coffee and doughnuts after Mass.
I have to admit I chuckling a bit at the idea that the op would have asked strangers this in real life. I think the keyboard warrior thing goes both ways. I’m picturing Kip from Napoleon dynamite telling us about lafawndah.
“I’m just getting T.O.ed. Because she hadn’t sent me a body shot yet…” All of us would be telling kip or lafawndah they were crazy.
Then I picture kip at the end. “Napoleon, I am one hundred percent certain lafawnduh is my soulmate…” And well he was right. No matter how the families looked at thier relationship. Come to think if it, that is a pretty good parallel here…
The op should be more like kip.
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JasontheRed
Guest
Brother, I mean no offense, I just think it’s funny. You are definitely a keyboard warrior. Don’t get me wrong I don’t think it’s a bad thing. I think it just means that you care a lot and that’s great!
And yeah, I wouldn’t ever bring up my question over coffee in real life. I think we all have thoughts and doubts that we feel like we could never tell someone. So, we just keep it to ourselves. Well I decided to post it on the internet…
I was thinking about if one of my friends asked me the same question. I think I’d be able to sympathize more because I’d know he wasn’t trying to be a jerk and that he’s a good guy. I’d know because he’s my friend. But, on the internet you don’t know the person behind the question. That’s good for all of us to remember I think!
God Bless
J
JasontheRed
Guest
This thread ended up helping me a lot in a unintended way. I felt so offended and pissed off by some of the comments that, it helped me to not care what other people thought about my relationship. That was really the root of the issue!
I realized you know what? I love this girl with all my heart. God is telling me to pursue her and regardless of what anyone thinks, she’s worth fighting for and I would never trade her for anything.
I know some of you still want me to feel bad and think I need serious help but, you know what I don’t really care now what any of you think. I’m not trying to mean just trying to be real. I know I’m a good guy I know that while I might not be perfect, my intentions are pure. I only care what God thinks and how my girlfriend thinks and feels about our relationship.
So, you might not have gotten what you wanted from me but, I got what I needed after all. Thanks!
I realized you know what? I love this girl with all my heart. God is telling me to pursue her and regardless of what anyone thinks, she’s worth fighting for and I would never trade her for anything.
I know some of you still want me to feel bad and think I need serious help but, you know what I don’t really care now what any of you think. I’m not trying to mean just trying to be real. I know I’m a good guy I know that while I might not be perfect, my intentions are pure. I only care what God thinks and how my girlfriend thinks and feels about our relationship.
So, you might not have gotten what you wanted from me but, I got what I needed after all. Thanks!
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Trident_H
Guest
Mission accomplished. Glad to hear it man.
Passive aggressive nonsense eliminated. You don’t know the first thing about most of the people here and yet you chide them for being judgmental. Please look at your full reflection in the mirror on your way out.
Peace.
-Trident
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
I’m glad you found the good in this. But man, this roller coaster posting is making me queasy… I don’t like her looks, I like her looks. I can’t sleep, I’m leaving the church, she brings me closer to the church. Stop posting, thanks for helping…
I gotta get off this ride…
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Lea101
Guest
You sound like my possible future boyfriend. I’m quite ugly (I have a deformity too).
Honestly, the easiest (but could be hurtful) way is to tell her that you love her a lot and you want to spend your life with her, but you keep thinking that you could “do better”. And then if she stays with you, great. If she dumps you, she obviously doesn’t want someone like you. This is not me being an arse towards you, but she deserves to know your feelings-good and bad. If she thinks you think that she is the best person and that you do not question your “choice”, well, that sucks. She deserves to know everything, it could be a deal breaker for her, and she does not know it!
That’s what I (a fellow ugly female) would want. Chances are, she knows that she is not that attractive according to society. Personally, I want my husband to be 100% confident about marrying me. If I know my spouse is thinking that he could get someone better, even if he only meant beauty-wise, i would be crushed. And that’s the last thing i want in a marriage. My husband should be delusional and think I’m the most gorgeous
In conclusion, you can ask us and get angry at the (wise) responses we give you, or you can talk to her and see where she stands. It would be incredibly unfair if she doesn’t know what you feel about this. You love her, so you should want her to have the spouse she wants, whether it is you or not.
(And yes, she apparently wants to marry you now, but don’t assume she will still feel that way when, not if, she finds out about this. If she still wants to marry you, then yay! You’ve got yourself a great partner, if not, graciously let her go and don’t hold back information that could change her mind about this relationship)
Honestly, the easiest (but could be hurtful) way is to tell her that you love her a lot and you want to spend your life with her, but you keep thinking that you could “do better”. And then if she stays with you, great. If she dumps you, she obviously doesn’t want someone like you. This is not me being an arse towards you, but she deserves to know your feelings-good and bad. If she thinks you think that she is the best person and that you do not question your “choice”, well, that sucks. She deserves to know everything, it could be a deal breaker for her, and she does not know it!
That’s what I (a fellow ugly female) would want. Chances are, she knows that she is not that attractive according to society. Personally, I want my husband to be 100% confident about marrying me. If I know my spouse is thinking that he could get someone better, even if he only meant beauty-wise, i would be crushed. And that’s the last thing i want in a marriage. My husband should be delusional and think I’m the most gorgeous
In conclusion, you can ask us and get angry at the (wise) responses we give you, or you can talk to her and see where she stands. It would be incredibly unfair if she doesn’t know what you feel about this. You love her, so you should want her to have the spouse she wants, whether it is you or not.
(And yes, she apparently wants to marry you now, but don’t assume she will still feel that way when, not if, she finds out about this. If she still wants to marry you, then yay! You’ve got yourself a great partner, if not, graciously let her go and don’t hold back information that could change her mind about this relationship)
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