Relationship in the gutter.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Persuader
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Let’s see, she was happier as a catholic and she wasn’t risking going to hell. It seems like Pascal’s Wager would be a no brainer in her circumstances. Maybe you can mention that to her

I’m not really surprised that you talked her into giving up her faith - it seems she was already standing on the cliff and you just gave her a little shove. I am surprised that she hasn’t persuaded you into her way of thinking. If God doesn’t exist then nihilism is the logical conclusion. She seems to have just arrived at that conclusion a lot quicker than you.
 
Go to the link I gave you

www.catholictherapists.com

For pity’s sake, don’t send her to a shrink who is not Catholic.
We do not live in the United States. As I have said, english is my third language. Although I am reading english texts and watching english television, I do not write in english on a daily basis.
 
Have you considered trying non-hormonal methods? I’ve taken hormonal contraceptives in the past, and they made me feel pretty weird.
Too much of a hassle. If the contraceptive is a real problem, we will follow the psychiatrists recommendation.
 
Let’s see, she was happier as a catholic and she wasn’t risking going to hell. It seems like Pascal’s Wager would be a no brainer in her circumstances. Maybe you can mention that to her

I’m not really surprised that you talked her into giving up her faith - it seems she was already standing on the cliff and you just gave her a little shove. I am surprised that she hasn’t persuaded you into her way of thinking. If God doesn’t exist then nihilism is the logical conclusion. She seems to have just arrived at that conclusion a lot quicker than you.
She is aware of Pascal’s Wager. I do not agree that nihilism is the logical conclusion, but I do not see a point in turning this into a philosophical discussion. That is not the purpose of this thread.
 
She is aware of Pascal’s Wager. I do not agree that nihilism is the logical conclusion, but I do not see a point in turning this into a philosophical discussion. That is not the purpose of this thread.
I am not sure I see the problem then. She had faith in God and was happy and full of life. She loses her faith and is suddenly depressed. So believe in God again, problem solved.
 
*When relationships are new Persuader, people are elated, joyful, etc. As time has gone on however, she is coming to the realization of her former self, that’s been lost. She probably realizes on some level, to be with you, means she can’t have God in her life, too. That makes her sad. I’m sure you’ll reply back with…’‘oh, I wouldn’t stop her from worshipping God.’’ But, **you don’t ***worship Him, and she loves you, and she apparently wants to please you. She sees her beliefs as a Catholic as being offputting to you…as an obstacle, so she ‘got rid of’ the obstacle. We can talk about the cosmic connection you both have all day…but it still brings us right back to point A.

I think that it’s ironic the very thing that attracted you to her (her inner light) is the very thing that has dimmed, by giving up her faith. :o

I hope she gets the help she needs soon…and finds her way back to her TRUE self. Regardless of what happens between you and your gf, I hope that you too come to know Christ, and all He can mean in your personal life.
I think you are underestimating her intellect, but that is understandable as you do not know her. I do not think she sees her faith as being offputting to me, or an obstacle to us being together. She probably did think it would be wrong to have sex when we first met, but I think her beliefs about God developed in a more liberal direction along with our relationship.
 
Shortly after, she told me she was ready to have sex. I asked if this would conflict with her religion, and she told me she didn’t think God would mind her having sex with the man she loved. She told me she was convinced God would understand the way she felt about me, and that she was sure God would see what she saw in me.
The sex was amazing, still is, and we have been having it for almost 5 months. Her mood did not deteriorate for 4 months. On the contrary, she was even more vibrant, something I really didn’t think possible as she was so full of life to begin with. Her mood has only been plummeting in the last month, and that coincided with her losing her faith. Therefore I have good reason to think that is the primary issue, although the sex could be contributing in some way. I cannot be sure yet. She made an appointment with a psychiatrist connected to the health service provided by the university, so some steps have finally been taken.
Persuader, oddly, the emotions you felt when you first saw her have been known to compel some other men to say “There IS a GOD!”

For those who can’t connect the dots about mortal sin and how people willingly choose it… look at his timeline. Perfect. Because this soul-crushing depression doesnt’ happen immediately.

First, she knows he was casually using other women when she came along, I presume. They have this incredible bond. His foreignness, his intellectual positions, he’s way cooler than the usual college fool, and she’s very impressed. And head over heels in love. They haven’t even known each other long enough for his real character to come out. (Takes at least half a year, but by that point, she’s sleeping with him and turned off her Warning Switch completely.) Hanging out with Mr. Judges the World by His Feelings and Emotions has changed her into someone who now speaks for God and tells him that God doesn’t FEEL bad about her sleeping with the man she thinks she loves.

She now presumes to interpret the mind of God, not according to what God actually said, but what she feels God would “feel.” Yes, Persuader, you’re good! She’s bought into that whole basing your actions on emotions thing. You were using other women, then dumped them when your emotions changed and you found someone new to feel emotional about. How are those girls doing, by the way? And you wonder that her mom has you pegged for a skirt chaser?

So that’s how sin is rationalized. We tell ourselves what God thinks, based on what we want Him to think. God changes the rules just for us! We have to lie to ourselves. Don’t we?

Deep down she has this thing written in her soul called Natural Law. And it is telling her this relationship is not right. Instead of you living up to her higher standards, she had to climb down to your lower standards of friends with benefits and free love. How sad for you both. Instead of her making you a better person, you made her a worse one.

But the sex is confusing her. She is mistaking physical pleasure for emotional happiness. Yes, for a while, being in love and sex made her happy. But that’s wearing off, Mr. Persuader. Sex alone means nothing. Five months… hmm… a little while of using contraceptives from the store. Then after a month she starts the contraceptive implant. Give it two and a half months to really take effect and wreck havoc with her system. Along with the guilt. And a month ago YOU just started noticing her depression. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t creeping up on her before then. I beg to differ. I bet she’s had a huge noticeable side effect to the meds. Depression, just like their own brochure warned her!

It probably took a while of being estranged from God… the guilt… the mental games she played that took her from being quite religious and quite Catholic believing “God has laws and He cares whether I reciprocate His love in Obedience” to “God doesn’t care what I do because He thinks like I do now” to “There can’t be a God at all.” Some people can’t do that in three days. Sometimes it takes about 4 months.

That change all occurred on your watch. She adopted your version of spirituality or whatever you call that which gives your life meaning. It doesn’t give her life meaning.

Living in sin, she lacks the grace to withstand the many spiritual assaults we all come under. She was raised to believe if we love God, we will obey His commandments. Intellectually, she has had to convince herself, not that she doesn’t love God. But that there is no God to love. Who, raised a Catholic and after a lifetime of being religious can wake up one morning and say “I don’t love God anymore.”
 
I made it clear I wanted to have sex with her, but that I respected her and didn’t want to push her into something she didn’t want to do.
Yes, you pressured her. Just the knowlege that there are girls out there who would sleep with you if she didn’t, your past history and her growing “love” for you can all compel someone to talk themselves into doing something they really aren’t ready for. She knew you wanted to. She wanted to be “loved” like a woman, not “respected” like the flag.
She’s a young woman who doesn’t yet understand that you really can’t have one without the other.

She gave in. But God does care if she sleeps with someone she’s not married to. He said so in His commandments. She knows that. She can no more say that He doesn’t mind that than she can say He doesn’t mind if she murdered someone or stole. Finally, she had to tell herself there was no God. No psychiatrist can fix that. And a secular one will maybe agree with her that if she can “fix” her Catholic upbringing, that will fix her. Hasn’t worked so far. Or worse, one will medicate her troubled conscience and spiritual confusion into complete numbness. That’s why everyone here is telling you she needs a Catholic psychiatrist. That person will understand her background and the way she was raised and won’t act like it’s a “mental aberration” to “cure.”

By the way, my sister is a cardiac nurse. Every female stroke patient she’s seen under age 40 was on birth control. (Did you read about blood clots on the link you gave us?) But they don’t know it’s a negative side effect till one very bad day. But I guess if that happens to her, her mother will take care of her, right? You’ll find a new friend with benefits.
 
We do not live in the United States. As I have said, english is my third language. Although I am reading english texts and watching english television, I do not write in english on a daily basis.
If you are not a Troll taking all these sincere people for an almighty ride (er, no pun intended :o) could you do us the courtesy of telling us the following.
  1. Which country are you both living in?
  2. How old are you both?
  3. How did you meet?
  4. Are you both students? At what kind of institution?
Thank you.
 
I am not sure I see the problem then. She had faith in God and was happy and full of life. She loses her faith and is suddenly depressed. So believe in God again, problem solved.
That is one possible solution, but she has lost her faith. Clearly that is not something she can just decide to get back. Depending on how it goes with the psychiatrist, I will help her regain her faith to the best of my ability.
 
We do not live in the United States. As I have said, english is my third language. Although I am reading english texts and watching english television, I do not write in english on a daily basis.
Out of curiosity, where are you from? What languages do you speak? Your English is better than that of most English speakers!
 
I think you are underestimating her intellect, but that is understandable as you do not know her. I do not think she sees her faith as being offputting to me, or an obstacle to us being together. She probably did think it would be wrong to have sex when we first met, but I think her beliefs about God developed in a more liberal direction along with our relationship.
Nothing in this story is about intellect, Persuader. You underestimate a young woman’s emotional commitment to her first sexual partner and what that will do to her ability to think straight.

I am a woman. I don’t need to know her. I just know women. Their heads and hearts. In a way you never will. Because you just use women and discard them, apparently. And you told us you had no idea how important her religion was to her before you helped persuade her it was unimportant.

Admit it. You HELPED her beliefs about God develop in a more deliberate direction. Only took you 4 months to sweep her off her feet and out of God’s reach.

Again, she may be starting to wake up and see you in a different light. The only thing she will do is sleep with you. Where did all that great conversation go?

(Here’s a clue: when you are dating, if you want to freeze your relationship development at any point in time and halt the progress of true intimacy … start sexual intercourse. Everything else will come to a screeching halt as that takes over the relationship. It will never grow and develop in a proper fashion, but will be clouded by an exchange of bodily fluids and hormonal release. Until one day someone wakes up and looks at the other and thinks “I know nothing about this person. What have I been doing???”)

That’s why all your other friends with benefits stayed mere friends. They weren’t really friends, where they? Or you wouldn’t have dumped them. They were friendly people with benefits. You never became soulmates before you became bed mates.

The mistake is when people get married at this stage. They then have to do all the hard work later down the road or it collapses in divorce.

Sadly, someday you may realize you doomed your relationship with this woman by not waiting till you married her to have sex. Maybe you both had the ingredients for a life together. But at this rate you’ll never know.

It is doomed. You do know that, don’t you?
 
Also, are you both from the same country, or are your cultures different? For example, if you are Scandinavian and she is from Poland, there will be a culture and religion clash.
 
Yes, I’ve also wondered at his “third language” and whether this is a troll. But this “predicament” is a real one in many lives and maybe lurkers can learn something by reading. And realize that sending kids out into the world unable to rebut the Persuaders of the world can have devastating consequences.
 
Persuader, oddly, the emotions you felt when you first saw her have been known to compel some other men to say “There IS a GOD!”

For those who can’t connect the dots about mortal sin and how people willingly choose it… look at his timeline. Perfect. Because this soul-crushing depression doesnt’ happen immediately.

First, she knows he was casually using other women when she came along, I presume. They have this incredible bond. His foreignness, his intellectual positions, he’s way cooler than the usual college fool, and she’s very impressed. And head over heels in love. They haven’t even known each other long enough for his real character to come out. (Takes at least half a year, but by that point, she’s sleeping with him and turned off her Warning Switch completely.) Hanging out with Mr. Judges the World by His Feelings and Emotions has changed her into someone who now speaks for God and tells him that God doesn’t FEEL bad about her sleeping with the man she thinks she loves.

She now presumes to interpret the mind of God, not according to what God actually said, but what she feels God would “feel.” Yes, Persuader, you’re good! She’s bought into that whole basing your actions on emotions thing. You were using other women, then dumped them when your emotions changed and you found someone new to feel emotional about. How are those girls doing, by the way? And you wonder that her mom has you pegged for a skirt chaser?

So that’s how sin is rationalized. We tell ourselves what God thinks, based on what we want Him to think. God changes the rules just for us! We have to lie to ourselves. Don’t we?

Deep down she has this thing written in her soul called Natural Law. And it is telling her this relationship is not right. Instead of you living up to her higher standards, she had to climb down to your lower standards of friends with benefits and free love. How sad for you both. Instead of her making you a better person, you made her a worse one.

But the sex is confusing her. She is mistaking physical pleasure for emotional happiness. Yes, for a while, being in love and sex made her happy. But that’s wearing off, Mr. Persuader. Sex alone means nothing. Five months… hmm… a little while of using contraceptives from the store. Then after a month she starts the contraceptive implant. Give it two and a half months to really take effect and wreck havoc with her system. Along with the guilt. And a month ago YOU just started noticing her depression. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t creeping up on her before then. I beg to differ. I bet she’s had a huge noticeable side effect to the meds. Depression, just like their own brochure warned her!

It probably took a while of being estranged from God… the guilt… the mental games she played that took her from being quite religious and quite Catholic believing “God has laws and He cares whether I reciprocate His love in Obedience” to “God doesn’t care what I do because He thinks like I do now” to “There can’t be a God at all.” Some people can’t do that in three days. Sometimes it takes about 4 months.

That change all occurred on your watch. She adopted your version of spirituality or whatever you call that which gives your life meaning. It doesn’t give her life meaning.

Living in sin, she lacks the grace to withstand the many spiritual assaults we all come under. She was raised to believe if we love God, we will obey His commandments. Intellectually, she has had to convince herself, not that she doesn’t love God. But that there is no God to love. Who, raised a Catholic and after a lifetime of being religious can wake up one morning and say “I don’t love God anymore.”
You are a mother, I understand that. You are wrong on a lot of things here, though. I know you think my morals are directed purely by emotion, but let me assure you that it is not. Apart from the morals specific to her religion, and abortion, we did agreed on a lot of other moral issues. She is a good person with great moral sense and reasoning. Maybe you want to read this about the possibility of moral knowledge: plato.stanford.edu/entries/moral-epistemology/

I think your evaluation of the contraceptive is laughable. In any case, the psychiatrist, who is an expert, will give his opinion. So that will be resolved shortly.

Although I understand your resentment, please consider that maybe my course of action is not as terrible as you are letting on.
 
Yes, I’ve also wondered at his “third language” and whether this is a troll. But this “predicament” is a real one in many lives and maybe lurkers can learn something by reading. And realize that sending kids out into the world unable to rebut the Persuaders of the world can have devastating consequences.
liber, i’ve considered all this too and came to the same conclusion. when i advised, “save this thread” i really meant it, but perhaps not only to Persuader. herein many people are contributing to the dark description of the loss of grace leading to the loss of hope. may have attested to the downward spiral of sin begetting sin, and how sin becomes a prison.

troll or not. someone has benefited from this thread. God draws straight with crooked lines.
 
I’m afraid you don’t seem to think we have any credible advice, Persuader. :confused: I guess I’m not sure what you want us to say to you…
 
If you are not a Troll taking all these sincere people for an almighty ride (er, no pun intended :o) could you do us the courtesy of telling us the following.
  1. Which country are you both living in?
  2. How old are you both?
  3. How did you meet?
  4. Are you both students? At what kind of institution?
Thank you.
I do not want to be too specific, but I will say this:
  1. Scandinavia. Although not a country, it will give you a general idea.
  2. She is 19, I am 20.
  3. I have said this already. At campus
  4. Yes, we are both students attending university.
 
liber, i’ve considered all this too and came to the same conclusion. when i advised, “save this thread” i really meant it, but perhaps not only to Persuader. herein many people are contributing to the dark description of the loss of grace leading to the loss of hope. may have attested to the downward spiral of sin begetting sin, and how sin becomes a prison.

troll or not. someone has benefited from this thread. God draws straight with crooked lines.
I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt on the language issue. For some, it is easier to read and write in a foreign language than to speak it, since one can check grammar and vocabulary before hitting “enter”.
 
I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt on the language issue. For some, it is easier to read and write in a foreign language than to speak it, since one can check grammar and vocabulary before hitting “enter”.
Yeah, I don’t think the language thing means he’s a troll. I’ve seen multiple people online from Scandinavian countries having perfect English. Many people in Asia also learn English from childhood. Plus, some people are just very smart.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top