Relationship in the gutter.

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Liberanosamalo said:
Nothing in this story is about intellect, Persuader. You underestimate a young woman’s emotional commitment to her first sexual partner and what that will do to her ability to think straight.

I am a woman. I don’t need to know her. I just know women. Their heads and hearts. In a way you never will. Because you just use women and discard them, apparently. And you told us you had no idea how important her religion was to her before you helped persuade her it was unimportant.

Admit it. You HELPED her beliefs about God develop in a more deliberate direction. Only took you 4 months to sweep her off her feet and out of God’s reach.

Again, she may be starting to wake up and see you in a different light. The only thing she will do is sleep with you. Where did all that great conversation go?

(Here’s a clue: when you are dating, if you want to freeze your relationship development at any point in time and halt the progress of true intimacy … start sexual intercourse. Everything else will come to a screeching halt as that takes over the relationship. It will never grow and develop in a proper fashion, but will be clouded by an exchange of bodily fluids and hormonal release. Until one day someone wakes up and looks at the other and thinks “I know nothing about this person. What have I been doing???”)

That’s why all your other friends with benefits stayed mere friends. They weren’t really friends, where they? Or you wouldn’t have dumped them. They were friendly people with benefits. You never became soulmates before you became bed mates.

The mistake is when people get married at this stage. They then have to do all the hard work later down the road or it collapses in divorce.

Sadly, someday you may realize you doomed your relationship with this woman by not waiting till you married her to have sex. Maybe you both had the ingredients for a life together. But at this rate you’ll never know.

It is doomed. You do know that, don’t you?
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You sound alot like her mother. It seems you have made up your mind about what kind of person I am, I hope her mother is more open-minded. We did become “soulmates” (I do not really adhere to that expression) before sleeping together. She does know a lot about me, more than anyone else. I thought I already explained as much.

I do not think things are doomed. Apart from her mood, my biggest worry is her family. I would be really grateful for some more advice on how to handle them. Especially her mother.
 
Persuader said:
I do not think things are doomed. Apart from her mood, my biggest worry is her family. I would be really grateful for some more advice on how to handle them. Especially her mother.
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Sackcloth and ashes might help.

YOU are going to have to change and get your act together. Period. That also means “getting right with God”, otherwise no amount of grovelling or “I’m sorry” will regain any trust in you, and it will not happen overnight. And this will need to be a permanent change, and it may take awhile for them to be convinced.
 
whatevergirl said:
I’m afraid you don’t seem to think we have any credible advice, Persuader. :confused: I guess I’m not sure what you want us to say to you…
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That is not true at all. I feel I have a better understanding now, and I am confident things will be resolved either way. If you are right, and she really needs her faith back, you have helped me figure out how I can help her with that. Also, you have given me some insight into the catholic mindframe, something that will not only help with dealing with her, but also with her family.

If I were to request something more, it would be some more advice in dealing with her family, and mother especially. I think she is the biggest obstacle in winning over the family, and making them support my gf and maybe our relationship as well.
 
I would be really grateful for some more advice on how to handle them. Especially her mother.
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you’ve gotta be kidding. handle them? you’ve already profoundly mishandled their daughter. too bad if you don’t like their moral code, Persuader. you breached it badlly and the consequences are dire.

handle them? let’s try again. you call the mom ONLY when you’re ready to honestly say, “i make a firm committment to never sleep with your daughter again unless we’re married.”
 
monicatholic said:
you’ve gotta be kidding. handle them? you’ve already profoundly mishandled their daughter. too bad if you don’t like their moral code, Persuader. you breached it badlly and the consequences are dire.

handle them? let’s try again. you call the mom ONLY when you’re ready to honestly say, “i make a firm committment to never sleep with your daughter again unless we’re married.”
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Ok, maybe you are right about that. If my gf regains her faith, I will consider trying to convince her (if she does not propose it herself) that we stop sleeping together to please her family. If her mother thinks she is going to hell for what we are doing, I understand she is very upset. Of course I do.
 
Persuader said:
That is not true at all. I feel I have a better understanding now, and I am confident things will be resolved either way. If you are right, and she really needs her faith back, you have helped me figure out how I can help her with that. Also, you have given me some insight into the catholic mindframe, something that will not only help with dealing with her, but also with her family.

If I were to request something more, it would be some more advice in dealing with her family, and mother especially. I think she is the biggest obstacle in winning over the family, and making them support my gf and maybe our relationship as well.
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*Okay…glad we could be of ‘‘some’’ help. :o

I will tell you what I tell my kids, who are teens. They are not yet dating…but I have told them…’‘You must be in love with God first, before you can fall in love with a person.’’ I don’t think we can** truly **love someone until we understand, accept, and embrace and give back the kind of love God has for us. I believe this. *
 
Norseman82 said:
Sackcloth and ashes might help.

YOU are going to have to change and get your act together. Period. That also means “getting right with God”, otherwise no amount of grovelling or “I’m sorry” will regain any trust in you, and it will not happen overnight. And this will need to be a permanent change, and it may take awhile for them to be convinced.
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Does that mean that you do not think they will accept me if I remain an atheist?
 
I have read all 15 pages of this thread and as a mother I can say one of my biggest fears is my daughter getting mixed up with a “persuader”.

I went through most of my life with no faith whatsoever. In fact I just converted to the Catholic church this year so I know what it is like to not have God in your heart and I know the changes that have happened in me since I learned the truth and allowed God into my heart and not all the persuaders in the world could convince me to turn away from Him and go back to that emptiness again.

My point is this, your gf was raised Catholic in a Catholic home. She had always had God in her heart and then you came along and convinced her it was all a lie and in order to justify having sex/pleasing you she threw God out of her heart…discarded Him the same way you discarded all those other girls before her. Now she is seeing what is like to live a life without God and it is a dark lonely existence where all she has is you and no offense but IMO she is getting the raw end of that deal.

I was 15 when I gave up my purity. I thought I was so in love and thought he loved me but guess what he dumped me a few months later. I have not seen or heard from this guy in over 20 years but he is out there somewhere walking around with my purity and here I am still regretting it to this very day. I believe the day will come when your gf is sitting where I am now and nothing she does will ever bring her virginity back. She gave you something very precious and you in turn took something very precious away from her…her faith. I can’t believe you thought it would be good if she lost her faith, what kind of person thinks such a thing?

A psychiatrist is not an expert on birth control, I can almost bet he is going to throw a bunch of anti depressants at her and send her on her way, never addressing the possibility of the ABC contributing to the depression. But no wonder to me she is depressed, she has thrown away her faith, is having sex with you knowing in her heart that it is wrong and practicing ABC.

I did ABC many years ago and I’ll tell you it messed me up real bad. I had a very hard time getting pregnant and suffered through miscarriages, when I did finally get pregnant my daughter was born 14 weeks premature. I had so much internal damage that was so painfully debilitating I ended up having to undergo a hysterectomy last year at age 35 because it was the only option left to fix me after everything else failed.

Your first step should be to get out of her bed and stop having sex with her. Stop saving it as your last resort because YOU can’t control yourself and be a man. A man respects a woman mind, body AND soul and doesn’t set out to make her a conquest. As far as I can see you have done nothing but disrespect this girl and she will eventually realize what she has done.

You realize this relationship is not going to last right? If not then you need to prepare yourself for that fact.

And I can tell you it is possible to stop having sex. I am in a relationship with a non Catholic and have been for 9 years now. He has actually been supportive in my conversion to the Church and raising our daughter in the faith. He was also understanding that I would no longer be having sex with him until we were married. So don’t sit there and tell me it can’t be done because it can. Quit being so focused on YOUR needs and what YOU want and practice some self control.

Rant over.
 
Persuader said:
Does that mean that you do not think they will accept me if I remain an atheist?
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I would not count on it. They may always associate your atheism with what you did to their daughter. And a “rapid conversion” just to get on their good side has no base; that is why I said it will require a permanent change and convincing them will not happen overnight. Be prepared for a task that may last years, or that some will never fully accept you (although some may TOLERATE you).

You’ve got your work cut out for you.

Have you looked into the sexual addiction support group I posted previously?
 
Persuader said:
Does that mean that you do not think they will accept me if I remain an atheist?
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That is possible. But as long as you fail to respect and acknowledge the faith, and moral codes they live by. As long as you keep having sex with their daughter outside of marriage, and encourage her to use birthcontrol, they will never accept you. You have to make a sincere attempt to show you respect their beliefs, not I’m going to stop having sex just to win them over. Just so you know, sending her to a psychiatrist without trying to help her find her faith, isn’t helping you get their acceptance. They know you are trying to get her to be fixed without her faith, and as long as her faith is gone, they will never accept you. It’s as simple as that. So if you want some hope of them accepting you, help her find her faith, STOP SLEEPING WITH HER, and make an active effort, to understand and respect what the Catholic church teaches. That doesn’t mean you have to believe it yourself, but you need to show you understand where they are coming from and show you respect that decision.

As I, and other posters have said, it isn’t going to matter, her mother may never accept you, and your relationship is most likely doomed as it stands.
 
Norseman82 said:
I would not count on it. They may always associate your atheism with what you did to their daughter. And a “rapid conversion” just to get on their good side has no base; that is why I said it will require a permanent change and convincing them will not happen overnight. Be prepared for a task that may last years, or that some will never fully accept you (although some may TOLERATE you).

You’ve got your work cut out for you.

Have you looked into the sexual addiction support group I posted previously?
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I am not addicted to sex. I did not have sex the first 4 months we were together, and I didn’t cheat on her.

I appreciate what you are saying about her family, although I hope it will not be that hard. I can’t really see myself believing in God either, but I am not ruling anything out. You have to understand, my parents are both atheists. My mother used to be a protestant, my dad have always been an atheist. My father won her family over, and they are still together. I think it is possible, although my gf’s parents are more devout (and catholics).
 
Persuader said:
That is one possible solution, but she has lost her faith. Clearly that is not something she can just decide to get back. -]Depending on how it goes with the psychiatrist, /-]I will help her regain her faith to the best of my ability.
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That, my friend, I hope, is a promise. An unconditional one. To do so, you must also insist that she live her faith, not once it is restored, but in order to restore it. This will require real sacrifice on your part. If you can understand the need for sacrifice in a relationship, then you can begin to understand the basis of our faith.

There are many steps to this restoration. And yes, she can be restored only if she wants to be.

Her faith was a part of her beauty. It was (is) part of who she is (was). It may be difficult to understand this. I didn’t at your age and situation.

I suggest she read “Real Love” (an early Christmas present?) It will explain what has happened, how easy it is to happen, how it happens to many, and how to find the way back and how you might still fit in the picture if you so choose.

I must say that about 30 years ago, although the circumstances were not exactly the same, I made a similar mistake. While I (and she) didn’t see it that way back then, I see it with great regret, today.
 
\It was love at first sight, and very strong.\

**You might have had ATTRACTION at first sight.

Were it really love, you would have accepted her as she was.**
 
Wouldn’t it be much simpler to stop having sex as a remedy than having her take drugs for contraception and seeing a psychiatrist?

Much more holistic and merciful wouldn’t you think?

If you loved someone I mean?
 
newbetx said:
That, my friend, I hope, is a promise. An unconditional one. To do so, you must also insist that she live her faith, not once it is restored, but in order to restore it. This will require real sacrifice on your part. If you can understand the need for sacrifice in a relationship, then you can begin to understand the basis of our faith.

There are many steps to this restoration. And yes, she can be restored only if she wants to be.

Her faith was a part of her beauty. It was (is) part of who she is (was). It may be difficult to understand this. I didn’t at your age and situation.

I suggest she read “Real Love” (an early Christmas present?) It will explain what has happened, how easy it is to happen, how it happens to many, and how to find the way back and how you might still fit in the picture if you so choose.

I must say that about 30 years ago, although the circumstances were not exactly the same, I made a similar mistake. While I (and she) didn’t see it that way back then, I see it with great regret, today.
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Look, making sacrifices is not a problem. If I was sure it is was she needs, I would have made that commitment already. As I said earlier, I respect her boundaries, and we did not have sex for the first 4 months of our relationship. She told me she was ready, I did not force her. I said I was fine with not having sex, althought I made it clear I wanted her.

I will pick that book up. Thanks for the tip.

Sorry about your experiences. I still have hope I can help fix this situation. I will not give up.
 
Persuader said:
I am not addicted to sex. I did not have sex the first 4 months we were together, and I didn’t cheat on her.

I appreciate what you are saying about her family, although I hope it will not be that hard. I can’t really see myself believing in God either, but I am not ruling anything out. You have to understand, my parents are both atheists. My mother used to be a protestant, my dad have always been an atheist. My father won her family over, and they are still together. I think it is possible, although my gf’s parents are more devout (and catholics).
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First, as I stated in my other post, even if you do not have an addiction, her behavior indicates an addiction (ESPECIALLY since you posted that you are worried how she will react if/when the sex stops and how she uses love to fill a void), and you are at the very least enabling it.

Second, if you are serious about helping her, you will cease any talk about winning anyone over. You stated the negative consequences of your previous attempts to win her over and stated how you are willing to help her regain her faith. Are you going back on your word now?
 
Persuader said:
Does that mean that you do not think they will accept me if I remain an atheist?
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Maybe. It took a while, but I think my MIL finally accepted me… and I was Catholic by then. But they are looking for something. Complete faith and confidence that you will do your best to help her be her best. A tall order but mostly what parents hope for in a SIL.
 
Kindness said:
Wouldn’t it be much simpler to stop having sex as a remedy than having her take drugs for contraception and seeing a psychiatrist?

Much more holistic and merciful wouldn’t you think?

If you loved someone I mean?
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If I knew that was what she needed, then yes. I am not sure of that yet, but I will know more shortly.

Maybe you have a hard time believing it, but I would not have sex with her if I was sure this was hurting her in any way. She made the decision about contraceptives. I am not making decisions for her. All her signals tells me she wants to have sex, and she is the primary instigator at this point.
 
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