Relationship Issues. Need help understanding

[Flash46196]

I am a 26 year old man, in a relationship with a catholic women, I am an Athiest. I have found it the most fulfilling and connective experience that I have ever been in. I am a good man and I live by a strict moral code, and although I cannot see inside of her head, she tells me she is very happy.

She recently put the breaks on all aspect of the physical with our relationship. She already went farther than some of you (from reading other posts) would have liked with me.

I am willing to wait till marriage for sex, with a little work on my part I can even get to the point where I can accept no physically sexual contact at all.

Here is the issue, and a lot of it has to do with my previous experiences with relationships with women.

When she brought this up in conversation it was a serious blow to my ego. It was effectively saying to me that she, (my girlfriend) is not sexually attracted to me, that she does not trust me, that she want to either slow things down or that she want to subtly end the relationship by making me break up with her. That may not have been how she meant it, but its pretty much what she said, and its sure as heck how I felt.

However I made no attempt to convince her, or make an argument for one thing or the other. I respect her and her beliefs far to much to do that. I see that many of you point out that athiests guys are “only out for one thing”, or “will not wait”, or say they “will” and then dont or try and logic there way into her pants, or convince or whatever. I did none of these things.

I did however ask her what I did wrong, she said “nothing” I asked her if I was not a good man, she said I was. I asked her if I had ever pressured her into doing anything ever, she admitted I had not.

Right now I feel unwanted, and unappreciated. I feel undesirable and ugly, I feel that I was taken as a mark for a guy to settle down with were there was not real attraction. I feel that I was perhaps even seen as a sucker for her to take a “bad boy” for a time. (not really a bad boy, (I drive motorcycles, and have traveled the world and other things ect.)

She said a bunch of things telling me it was not like that and that she really cared about me. And that in her past relationship she had slept with the guy, but ended up regretting it and breaking up with him, because she did not really like him and only stayed so long because they had already been physical. And then said that she did not want to sleep with just anyone because of how that kills your soul.

Then I felt even worse, here I though I was the strong but caring communicative compassionate guy, and now I am less then “just anyone”, infact according to her logic she is not being physical with me because she cares actually likes me, but may be been if she did not really like me?

Now look, I see this women as marriage potential, or I would not be in a relationship with her. I dont mess around (I mean, you guys might call it that, but it was consensual sex in committed monogamous relationships where I saw the potential for long term) . AND this came out of the blue, I assumed no sex before marriage but she let things escalate and then stopped them…

K so:

in my past relationships when the physical stopped it meant there were problems, like REAL problems. She claims its the opposite, I cannot wrap my head around that.

In the past it meant she was possibly trying to **** me off to the point where I would end it so she did not have to. She claims she is serious about us.

She said she did not know why I felt this way, I told her its because the women I am in a relationship with just put me in the friend zone. She in my eyes wants to be “just friends”

I tell her that I dont mind waiting, but no physical affection makes me fear a sexless, passionless marriage. She assures me I dont have to worry about that, but makes not explanation why.

She then says that its her task now to find other ways to show me I am appreciated. Today that consisted of holding my hand and then not kissing me when our great (in my opinion) platonic afternoon out together ended.

I feel like a dog being led out to the woods and my owner is holding a shotgun and I think I am going for a walk.

Now my question to you, the forums,

Does she want a relationship with me?

Does she care about me?

Is she just testing me?

What does she want?

How do you have a completely non physical relationship with someone you had a +physical relationship with before?

What do people do to continue to foster connection while being non physical?

Do I get to kiss my girlfriend again?

Please help me! I am serious about this relationship and this women. I am prob. going to go and see a priest this week for more help. I am really lost here.

EDIT:
And one add on here, please before casting me off as hopeless because of my beliefs know this, I have gone through the forums, I have not ever, not will I ever cause some of the grief I read about. I am trying to do the right thing by both me and her here. and I am seeking understanding of her and her way of thinking.

 

[Lisa1967]

I was going through RCIA during my first year in a relationship with my atheist boyfriend. We both went to see the priest at my parish because we both wanted to know how far we could go (so to speak) without breaking Catholic teachings. All three of us had a very frank talk about it. As it turns out, my boyfriend pressured me to go farther than I wanted, I sinned with him, and resented it. We ended up breaking up.

As for your dilemma, I think both your and your girlfriend’s needs and desires are valid. You both need to decide whether you are right for each other. She has a right to live a virtuous life and you have a right to have your physical needs met.

 

[mikeeh]

No one can really tell you what your girlfriend is thinking except her. Either she is losing interest in you or she is realizing that sex before marriage is destructive. If she does have a “colorful” past she might be thinking that every time she jumps into a relationship and gives herself before marriage she doesn’t feel fulfilled. Now because she likes you she’s trying to hold on to what you two have and start over by waiting until marriage. In other words not having sex with you may mean she likes you more than those other guys. I can assure you if you go to a priest he will say it’s good that she wants to wait for marriage. In fact if you decide to get married through the Church he will ask you to wait so you can focus on building an emotional and spiritual relationship with each other. But as I said before only she can tell you what she is thinking. Just be patient and always remind her that you are willing to talk and understand where she is coming from.

On another note, I would highly recommend reevaluating your ideas of what a good relationship requires. If the lack of physical contact scares you consider this: What if you do marry this woman and 5 years into your marriage you are in an accident and become a quadriplegic. Should she leave you because you can no longer be physically intimate with her? Or consider this: Some women have conditions that make it physically painful to engage in sexual intercourse. Would you just leave your girlfriend for this reason? These are questions for you to think about, you don’t have to respond. Good luck.

 

[Steveabrous]

When I was younger, 18 and before I became Catholic, I dated a Catholic girl who was the same age I was. The same thing happened. We got intimate a few times and it stopped because of her guilt. I felt the same way you do. We broke up over it. I kept in contact with her for a few years and realized that she was serious about no sex until marriage. When I realized I was wrong I tried to get back with her but it was too late. So I believe she is being honest about this being a decision for God and not against you. That being said. I would advise against you two getting Married unless you are willing to let Catholicism be the church for your family and let you atheism be silent, or if she is willing to give up religion. I’m saying that when the time comes for children you need to have it worked out now. Otherwise there will be a war over religion in your home concerning the children.
The Catholic church strongly discourages Catholics from marrying people of other, or no, faiths. She may have been advised against this relationship and that may also be why she is pulling back. I would say that if you want to marry her, and you are willing to allow Catholicism to be the undisputed religion in you home regardless of your personal beliefs then let her know and respect her choice to remain pure until you marry.

 

[s4angel]

I have been there except I was the woman… I am Catholic and a sinner… In my past I could go into a relationship and be perfectly happy for a time but the division I felt between my creator and I, my creed and my faith to what I was doing always became to much for me. There is a saying that you can not lived divided, you can divide your life for a while but then you have to live as whole. Being catholic is not just a belief it is who we are and it effects every thing in our lives, we can ignore it for a while but in the end we have to be whole.

Nothing is wrong with you except you do not believe, you would bend over backwards for her and in that you are perfect but you do it for her and not yourself.

I do not pretend to know what is in her mind or heart… or yours.

Sometimes the hardest part of love is letting go…

My advice to you would be simply this. Be her friend a true friend. Take a step back and do not take it personally because it probably really has nothing to do with you as a person.

 

[Steveabrous]

Also, don’t be wimpy, pouty, and bug her about this everytime you see or talk to her or you will drive her away. It may be hard for you to understand since you are irreligious, But I really believe she is doing this to be right with God, and you would have a very special wife if you don’t blow it by making a big deal about this. Enjoy your time with her. If she feels she is making you miserable then she will break up with you. My wife and I both had a colored past before we met and while we were Christians. We had both came to the conclusion that sex before marriage led to making bad relationship decisions.Before met we had both resolved not to have sex before marriage. So, this time I was glad that I met a woman who didn’t want sex before marriage because all the other times ended badly, and I knew that the Catholic girl I broke up with for not having sex with me was the one I let get away. But this time I got a better one. We married after knowing each other 2 months (my decision)

You mentioned worrying about having a passionless sexless marriage. You’ve never been married have you? You have sex a lot the first two years then it drys up . Period. Marriage is not about sex.

 

[DevotedChild]

Sometimes the hardest part of love is letting go…

My advice to you would be simply this. Be her friend a true friend. Take a step back and do not take it personally because it probably really has nothing to do with you as a person.

Exactly. Love is 90% choice and 10% emotional. Marriage is a life-long partnership and companionship and its between a man and a woman who have chosen each other to be their #1-best-friend besides God.

From what I can tell, what she is doing is showing more love than you think. She is trying to show you love beyond the physical. You don’t have to be physically attracted to each other at first to be in love with each other but love, in time, will bring that along into the relationship if its not already there. Just be patient with her and listen to the other posters, they also have some good advice.

God Bless you and your in my prayers.

 

[rafarose]

hey flash, I think you really need to talk to your girlfriend first! It appears there is a misunderstanding and miscommunication on both of your part. Is she a devout Catholic? I think that by her refusing to have sex before marriage is more of a conscience situation. She feels guilty, and you can not change that. I doubt that this has anything to do with you nor her feelings about you. I don’t think she likes you any less, she is making this decision because she feels it is the right thing to do.

As others have suggested, I think this might a tough decision on your part. How involved with Catholicism do you want to be in the future? If you have children in the future, and she wants to take them to church, how would you feel? If you are not okay with these things, then it might be better for you to end things before it gets even harder.

Sorry if I sounded harsh, but you ultimately need to make the decision that will be better for both of you.

 

[KCT]

Well, now you can see if she really loves you for you and not for sex.

 

[mayxanh]

What if you do marry this woman and 5 years into your marriage you are in an accident and become a quadriplegic. Should she leave you because you can no longer be physically intimate with her?

More than enough, I know many instances where the **husband was abandoned **by his wife just because his health status does not allow him to have sex.

People usually don’t know how to treasure the great gift they are offered for free until it is too late

 

[dedo]

Sometimes withdrawing from part of a relationship is healthy. Otherwise the relationship will probably end. That would seem to apply double in this case. The lady has reset the boundaries in the relationship so that they are consistent with her beliefs – with a little insurance to stay out of trouble.

It is up to you to respect the boundary.

Since the only person you can change is yourself, focus on that.

What can you improve? Are there any bad habits you can get rid of? (no need to answer that) Can you advance your career / school / fitness? Can you read something about relationships?

During the disengagement period, avoid any displays of neediness or criticism. Think before responding to any “bids” your girlfriend might send out. Just be cool and be sure what you do or say is not misperceived.

You will have to come to terms with her faith. It is vital for a Catholic to raise their children in the faith. Would you support that, or be passive aggressive to this need of hers?

(These are questions to ask yourself. There is no need to debate them here.)

 

[chevalier]

When she brought this up in conversation it was a serious blow to my ego. It was effectively saying to me that she, (my girlfriend) is not sexually attracted to me, that she does not trust me, that she want to either slow things down or that she want to subtly end the relationship by making me break up with her. That may not have been how she meant it, but its pretty much what she said, and its sure as heck how I felt.

Don’t worry, as long as she’s actually a practicing Catholic (or not even that), there’s like no chance she actually things like that. It’s a frequent feeling, frequent illusion that appears to people who deal with Catholics in dating contexts. This actually puts Catholics in a particularly difficult position sometimes as it’s presumed you aren’t interested (or that you’re crypto-gay or impotent or something) if you don’t pepper the conversations with innuendo or physical sexual advances. And that’s not a nice place to be in, but beliefs are worth sacrifices.

However I made no attempt to convince her, or make an argument for one thing or the other. I respect her and her beliefs far to much to do that.

Looks like you gave her the benefit of the doubt! Respect for that. And thanks for respecting the faith.

I see that many of you point out that athiests guys are “only out for one thing”, or “will not wait”, or say they “will” and then dont or try and logic there way into her pants, or convince or whatever. I did none of these things.

Well, there’s a difference between “won’t wait” and “are only out for one thing”! I don’t think the latter but the former is true for most people on the globe, Catholic or not, with a somewhat lower chance among Catholics.

Right now I feel unwanted, and unappreciated. I feel undesirable and ugly, I feel that I was taken as a mark for a guy to settle down with were there was not real attraction. I feel that I was perhaps even seen as a sucker for her to take a “bad boy” for a time. (not really a bad boy, (I drive motorcycles, and have traveled the world and other things ect.)

Hmm… You’ll need to take her at her word when she expresses it verbally or otherwise. But like my mother said to me, if a woman spends her time with you that means a lot. It already means a lot, for example, that she allows herself to be seen with you, identified with you, that she elects to spend her time with you instead of alone or online or with her friends (and women are much more into collective pastimes with friends than men are).

She said a bunch of things telling me it was not like that and that she really cared about me.

Believe those things! After all, a physical sexual behaviour might as well signify being starved for sex in general as opposed to interested in you specifically.

And that in her past relationship she had slept with the guy, but ended up regretting it and breaking up with him, because she did not really like him and only stayed so long because they had already been physical. And then said that she did not want to sleep with just anyone because of how that kills your soul.

I’m sure she appreciates your relationship for allowing her not to be crossing those boundaries. A lot of Catholics work their way up from failing to live by their beliefs in the area of sexual ethics (as did I, and I appreciated the breath of freedom when the pressure was removed).

Then I felt even worse, here I though I was the strong but caring communicative compassionate guy, and now I am less then “just anyone”, infact according to her logic she is not being physical with me because she cares actually likes me, but may be been if she did not really like me?

Nah, and there’d be no glory in being enough of an intimidating, go-getting jerk who’d manage to have his way with her. The appreciation you’re getting from her for your actual virtues is worth so much more than whatever could pretend to be proven by her engaging in something sexual with you (and most likely regretting it later).

in my past relationships when the physical stopped it meant there were problems, like REAL problems. She claims its the opposite, I cannot wrap my head around that.

May have something to do with her feeling comfortable without a pressure that keeps putting dents in her armour and occasionally make her fall, then get up and fall again. And at any rate it has nothing to do with withdrawal. She is acting like a moral agent that believes premarital sex is wrong, not like someone who claims headache to disguise an impulsive aversion.

In the past it meant she was possibly trying to **** me off to the point where I would end it so she did not have to.

Nope.

She said she did not know why I felt this way, I told her its because the women I am in a relationship with just put me in the friend zone. She in my eyes wants to be “just friends”

It takes a lot of experience and a lot of thinking for a Catholic to understand the other perspective, I think. And no, the friend-zoning impression is not correct, although strictly speaking a premarital relationship is a bit of a friend-zone in the sense that it’s about discernment and it really is not a form of sexual partnership.

 

[chevalier]

I tell her that I dont mind waiting, but no physical affection makes me fear a sexless, passionless marriage. She assures me I dont have to worry about that, but makes not explanation why.

She’s constrained by morality, not by an aversion to sex. She may have strong convictions to overcome strong physiological urges of nature. Imagine someone with the kind of willpower to go cold turkey on nicotine, for example. (Except as Catholics we’d believe she’s assisted by the supernatural Grace of God, not just relying only on her own natural means.)

Does she want a relationship with me?

Definitely.

Does she care about me?

Proven as charged.

Is she just testing me?

That’d take a twisted mind, I’m practically sure she’s not and I can’t imagine a purpose for her to do so.

What does she want?

To stay true to God and her faith in her life. You wouldn’t steal to keep her as your girlfriend, right? It’s similar.

How do you have a completely non physical relationship with someone you had a +physical relationship with before?

That’s hard but doable. You need to keep your mind off it. Perhaps finding intellectually engaging and exhausting pastimes could help it. Especially something that allows you to stay together but without building up tension.

What do people do to continue to foster connection while being non physical?

That’s a good question actually. But it can be liberating. It frees you up to spend your focus on things you’d like to talk about and interests you’d like to share, as well as getting to know the other person and getting introduced to his or her life. Which would be very hard to do properly when dealing with a large dose of hormones. For me, having her word from a girl without needing to deal with significant physical advances (especially of the more sensual rather than affectionate kind) would be solid gold, actually, paradise lost and whatnot.

And one add on here, please before casting me off as hopeless because of my beliefs know this, I have gone through the forums, I have not ever, not will I ever cause some of the grief I read about. I am trying to do the right thing by both me and her here. and I am seeking understanding of her and her way of thinking.

I believe you’ve that clear enough and I believe you. Rarely does one meet a character like yours.

 

[Flash46196]

Thank you all very very much.

Your replies and your messages have been enlightening and calming.

You are right that I have a great deal of thinking to do. As well her and I have to talk about this again.

As well thanks for the acceptance and help!

Cameron

 

[Flash46196]

As well I do keep an open mind,

It is entirely possible that I do not have all the answers when it comes to relationships.

It is also possible that I have not been in 100% healthy relationships in the past.

It is possible this may be the better way to develop a lasting relationship.

time will tell…

 

[Groo]

That you are confused about where you stand with her is not a good sign. When women are really interested, they make sure you know it.

I think she is losing interest in you. Why, I can’t say. I would suggest backing off and guarding your own heart. Good luck.

 

[eonporter]

That’s interesting, because I’ve had the same problem with my wife when I met her!

I was an atheist back then, and she was catholic. We used to sin, but then I would go to the mass with her (just as company, I thought it was all nonsense back then) and she would not be able to participate in communion sometimes, because the hadn’t confessed. I would feel bad sometimes because of that, because I knew it was important to her, even if it wasn’t important to me.

Then one day she came to me and proposed that we should stop being physical until marriage. I got mad when she said that, and felt exactly like you described!

It turns out that in my case her proposition gave me the urgency I needed to do the right thing: to marry her.

I guess I just realized how important her faith was to her and that there was no way of going around it so that both of us could be happy at the same time. The simplest way to deal with that (provided that I loved her very much) as just to marry her and end the issue. I wanted to marry her anyway… so I just made it happen faster!

The point is that being an atheist puts your in an odd position regarding her feelings. Many of the things she does and thinks will be simply beyond your comprehension just because of the fact that catholicism is not just a religion, it is a way of thinking.

There is no way to understand her feelings without fully understanding her faith. And there is no way to have a happy marriage with her without even going further, respecting and supporting her faith in all the possible ways you can. If you are not really willing to go that far, then I would say: just don’t marry her, because she will feel unhappy and misunderstood very often.

On the other hand I would say: if you do love her, give it your best shot and get to know her faith the best you can. Read the catechism. Attend the mass with her, and try to understand what is going on there. Figure out why all that is so important to her, and you will be on the way to a deeper relationship, with or without sex.

 

[DevotedChild]

That’s interesting, because I’ve had the same problem with my wife when I met her!

I was an atheist back then, and she was catholic. We used to sin, but then I would go to the mass with her (just as company, I thought it was all nonsense back then) and she would not be able to participate in communion sometimes, because the hadn’t confessed. I would feel bad sometimes because of that, because I knew it was important to her, even if it wasn’t important to me.

Then one day she came to me and proposed that we should stop being physical until marriage. I got mad when she said that, and felt exactly like you described!

It turns out that in my case her proposition gave me the urgency I needed to do the right thing: to marry her.

I guess I just realized how important her faith was to her and that there was no way of going around it so that both of us could be happy at the same time. The simplest way to deal with that (provided that I loved her very much) as just to marry her and end the issue. I wanted to marry her anyway… so I just made it happen faster!

The point is that being an atheist puts your in an odd position regarding her feelings. Many of the things she does and thinks will be simply beyond your comprehension just because of the fact that catholicism is not just a religion, it is a way of thinking.

There is no way to understand her feelings without fully understanding her faith. And there is no way to have a happy marriage with her without even going further, respecting and supporting her faith in all the possible ways you can. If you are not really willing to go that far, then I would say: just don’t marry her, because she will feel unhappy and misunderstood very often.

On the other hand I would say: if you do love her, give it your best shot and get to know her faith the best you can. Read the catechism. Attend the mass with her, and try to understand what is going on there. Figure out why all that is so important to her, and you will be on the way to a deeper relationship, with or without sex.

That’s very well said and true.

 

[mayxanh]

That’s interesting, because I’ve had the same problem with my wife when I met her!

I was an atheist back then, and she was catholic. We used to sin, but then I would go to the mass with her (just as company, I thought it was all nonsense back then) and she would not be able to participate in communion sometimes, because the hadn’t confessed. I would feel bad sometimes because of that, because I knew it was important to her, even if it wasn’t important to me.

Then one day she came to me and proposed that we should stop being physical until marriage. I got mad when she said that, and felt exactly like you described!

It turns out that in my case her proposition gave me the urgency I needed to do the right thing: to marry her.

I guess I just realized how important her faith was to her and that there was no way of going around it so that both of us could be happy at the same time. The simplest way to deal with that (provided that I loved her very much) as just to marry her and end the issue. I wanted to marry her anyway… so I just made it happen faster!

The point is that being an atheist puts your in an odd position regarding her feelings. Many of the things she does and thinks will be simply beyond your comprehension just because of the fact that catholicism is not just a religion, it is a way of thinking.

There is no way to understand her feelings without fully understanding her faith. And there is no way to have a happy marriage with her without even going further, respecting and supporting her faith in all the possible ways you can. If you are not really willing to go that far, then I would say: just don’t marry her, because she will feel unhappy and misunderstood very often.

On the other hand I would say: if you do love her, give it your best shot and get to know her faith the best you can. Read the catechism. Attend the mass with her, and try to understand what is going on there. Figure out why all that is so important to her, and you will be on the way to a deeper relationship, with or without sex.

I love your testimonies:thumbsup:

 

[mayxanh]

Hey Flash,

Where do you live? USA? You cannot understand her because you live in a society where sexual liberalization become prevalent.

In my original country, even an atheist understands that we must abstain from sex before marriage because premarrital sex is not socially accepted.