Relatively few catholics prefer the TLM

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LarryRay said:
It’s not going to happen overnight, but the writing is on the wall. When the majority continuously atrophies while the minority enjoys healthy growth, it’s just a matter of time before the minority becomes the new majority. And the N.O. establishment is collapsing while the TLM is booming. In terms of vocations, have you heard that traditionalist orders and tradition-oriented seminaries are bursting at the seams?
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Funny, but I don’t seem to be atrophied or collapsed and our parish is literally bursting at the seams. Not only is your post inaccurate and unsubstantiated, it perpetuates the elitism and arrogance I mentioned earlier. It goes even beyond the my Mass is better than your Mass bit to saying that we Catholics are better and holier than you Catholics.
 
LarryRay said:
Wrong. The post-Vatican II changes were NOT like what had happened before at other times in history.

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Do you think the initial transition to the TLM missal was easy?

Or the start of the change from communion in the hand to communion on the tongue?

Or being told you had to stop using some other missal that was the norm for your area?

No change was easy.

We just happen to have lived through this one so it seems worse.
 
brotherhrolf said:
As in Trent in oposition to the protestant reformation? Or do you mean after the Synod of Whitby which affected the Celtic Church?

I lived through the change. I was a teenager in high school and and altar boy. You will pardon me in that I do have the background in history and anthropology and I can tell you that the most drastic, wrenching change in all of HMC’s history came in 1969. There is no way around that. Accept it for what is was. We had our roots yanked out from beneath us and presented on a platter.
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It is most wrenching because we lived through it and we were the ones affected by it.
 
Relatively few Catholics below there mid 40’s have even been to a Latin Mass. Many of those that have however come away aware of the night and day difference.
 
Just_1_hr_a_wk said:
Do you think the initial transition to the TLM missal was easy?

Or the start of the change from communion in the hand to communion on the tongue?

Or being told you had to stop using some other missal that was the norm for your area?

No change was easy.

We just happen to have lived through this one so it seems worse.
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So, you’re taking issue with the assessment of then-Cardinal Ratzinger that “nothing of the sort had ever happened in the entire history of the liturgy.” Wow, I guess that we should all be very honored. It’s quite the privilege to be discussing this with someone with greater knowledge of Church history than the Holy Father himself.
 
LarryRay said:
So, you’re taking issue with the assessment of then-Cardinal Ratzinger that “nothing of the sort had ever happened in the entire history of the liturgy.” Wow, I guess that we should all be very honored. It’s quite the privilege to be discussing this with someone with greater knowledge of Church history than the Holy Father himself.
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Was he there?
 
pnewton said:
Three. Your point?
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I posted a new thread just for you pnewton. It is called **Synod of Bishops. **If Lake Jackson is bursting at the seams like you claim then your Bishop must have failed to respond to the survey taken by the Bishops. Take a look at it and then tell me that the Church doesn’t need Tradition back.
 
I hope I’m not too late to be added to the list of relatively few Catholics who prefer the TLM…
 
FYI - Elevation to pope does not grant retroactive authority to previous writings. There is even one case of a pope who taught heresy prior to his papacy. Not that Cardinal Ratzinger needed the authority of the papacy when his own keen intellect and knowledge of liturgy is quite formidable. I just don’t like seeing his papacy wrongly used as a source of authority.
 
LarryRay said:
Who said that it did?
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Nobody did. I didn’t say it was said. It might have been construed that some authority was implied, though. Here is where the quote was credited to the Holy Father( by implication only):
“greater knowledge of Church history than the Holy Father himself.”

Of course this is not the first time that an earlier writing of the pope was used and then a reference was added to his current papacy. I just thought a clarification was in order.
 
I think the MP is turning into a bust. There was a thread how one New England parish was filled to the rafters at the first Extraordinary form but weeks most did not come back.

A St. Brandans in the Bay Area like 22 or so have indicated an interest out of, on paper, several thousand members.

Like I said, I think the interest is turning out to be lots less than even the Vatican might have expected.
 
rien said:
I think the MP is turning into a bust. There was a thread how one New England parish was filled to the rafters at the first Extraordinary form but weeks most did not come back.

A St. Brandans in the Bay Area like 22 or so have indicated an interest out of, on paper, several thousand members.

Like I said, I think the interest is turning out to be lots less than even the Vatican might have expected.
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St. Brendan’s in San Francisco?

First of all, 22 is nothing to sneeze at when you consider that absolutely nothing has been done by the San Francisco Archdiocese to encourage or publicize the motu proprio. I know. I live there.

It’s disingenuous to ban something for 40 years, and have your local Archbishop and priests completely ignore or discourage it, and then turn around and point to a lack of interest by the lay people.

Second, we were talking previously about parishes that produce vocations. St. Brendan’s in San Francisco is the sort of parish that hasn’t produced a vocation to the priesthood in decades. The whole archdiocese ordains perhaps a couple of priests per year (and they’re typically immigrants from Vietnam or the Philippines, God bless 'em).
 
stmaria said:
That is why they prefer the Novus Ordo.** Devout Catholics **prefer the Traditional Mass.

I couldn’t have said it better myself. " **dedicated Catholics **may prefer it but the vast majority of Catholics are **not dedicated **Catholics."
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I consider myself a Devout Catholic and I don’t prefer the TLM. If it were in English, yes. But that option is not on the table. Perhaps when the Anglicans swim down the Thames and up the Tiber, I’ll attend a Sarum Rite Mass.

For now, I’ll stick to an English Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom or St. Basil the Great…

Oh and the Presanctified Liturgy of St. Gregory the Great.
 
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