Relativism and skepticism are logical suicide

[Dan123]

Yes. We probably came from something like bacteria.

Something probably much simpler in fact, but yes. I think he’s talking about the specific point humans existed distinct from the rest of life on earth though.

 

[Bill_B_NY]

We probably came from something like bacteria.

What kind of probability do you assign to that? Why did bacteria need to develop cellular structures and how did it happen?

 

[Dan123]

You’re saying you can predict the order in which the cars end, right? 1,2,3,4 - it’s not random, right?

What I’m saying is because many non-random factors come into play, random elements don’t make a whole system random. If you chose the best apple from 100 random apple you’d probably get a pretty good apple, at least the best of the bunch.

 

[niceatheist]

Then you can provide these citations from peer reviewed and primary literature.

 

[Bill_B_NY]

Science says human is just another animal. Is that a scientific problem?

Science says that human is another animal, but it cannot tell the difference between human and animal? And animals became human through random mutations, right?
Can you accept the possibility that evolution is false on this point? Humans are not merely animals. We have a rational soul, which exists and has observable effects. How did mutations create it and when did it happen?

 

[Bill_B_NY]

What I’m saying is because many non-random factors come into play, random elements don’t make a whole system random. If you chose the best apple from 100 random apple you’d probably get a pretty good apple, at least the best of the bunch.

You’re saying it is random. More or less predictable, but still undirected, unplanned.

 

[Dan123]

No, I’m saying it’s non-random because there are non-random elements to it, even if there are also random elements to it.

 

[niceatheist]

From a biological perspective there is no difference.

Can you give me some idea as to what literature on the topic you have read? It strikes me that you may not know very much about the biological sciences at all. You seem to be creating false dilemmas where no actual conflict exists.

 

[Bill_B_NY]

Then you can provide these citations from peer reviewed and primary literature.

What precisely are you looking for and I’ll be glad to provide it.
You believe that evolution does not propose the origin of human life?

 

[niceatheist]

I’m looking for references in peer reviewed and primary literature in the biological and organic sciences that mention the soul or assert it does not exist

 

[Bill_B_NY]

From a biological perspective there is no difference.

Evolution does not attempt to explain the origin of human reason, logic, self-awareness, moral consciousness?

 

[niceatheist]

Of course it does. But so what?

 

[Bill_B_NY]

Of course it does. But so what?

I just explained what a human soul is. Evolution claims to give materialistic origins to those features - those are the soul. You don’t need any literature since you just admitted it.

 

[Dan123]

Evolution does not attempt to explain the origin of human reason, logic, self-awareness, moral consciousness?

Aside from their value to the value of those attributes in reproduction and continuation of the species not really. How those things work would be other fields of study.

 

[niceatheist]

If you can find those citations to back up your claim, we can certainly have an informed debat. Other than that I think what I might be debating is your own interpretations and private definitions which likely have little to do with modern biology

 

[Bill_B_NY]

Aside from their value to the value of those attributes in reproduction and continuation of the species not really.

Well there is an abundance of evolutionary science claiming to give explanations for the origin of all of those things.
The fact that you deny it is a good thing. You are fully aware of the problem. You just can’t bring yourself to admit it.

 

[Beryllos]

What kind of probability do you assign to that? Why did bacteria need to develop cellular structures and how did it happen?

Probability of something that has happened is 1, and bacteria did not need, want, intend, plan. I picked bacteria because they already have much of the cellular structures and machinery that we have. How did it happen? Take a seat, please, because this may be shocking. Random mutations and survival of the fittest. Now, how God could pull us out of that slime a great mystery, but beautiful.

 

[niceatheist]

Does your definition of the soul even match the church’s? You’re not just denying evolution, but psychology and neuroscience, not to mention developmental and comparitive psychology and neurobiology. At one point do you begin questioning your own claims.

 

[Dan123]

Well there is an abundance of evolutionary science claiming to give explanations for the origin of all of those things.

I’m not really sure what you mean by origin of, it’s more of a biology field as to how they work. If you simply mean why they were perpetuated all you need to demonstrate is that things like ‘reason’ are beneficial to survival. I’m not sure who would argue against that.

 

[Bill_B_NY]

The soul is the immaterial, rational component in human beings. It makes us human, not animal. It is the immaterial form for moral conscience, self-awareness, reason-rationality, consciousness.
Evolution claims all of that came from random, material mutations.
Now do I need to do basic google searches for you guys?
Evolutionary origin of human reason. Try it.
Evolutionary origin of moral conscience.