Release of pope's comments on condoms a blunder or apologetic genius?

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Chukarrushe :
Sophistry at it’s worst. PLEASE READ CAREFULLY what the author states in his summary of Pope Benedict’s words and then read carefully what the pope actually says.

Article writer says this “While broadly defending traditional Catholic teaching against artificial birth control, Benedict also suggests that in some limited instances the use of a condom might be morally defensible.”

Pope Benedict actually says is this -
“In this or that case, there can be nonetheless, in the intention of reducing infection, a first step in a movement toward a different way, a more human way, of living sexuality,” the pope says."

Is the pope really saying that at some times it IS morally defensible? NO.
Instead what the pope is stating is that in these people who are doing sinful acts their are good intentions. In this case he is simply stating that people and prostitutes involved in disordered sexual relations have the good intention in trying to prevent infection. Never does he say the use of the condom might be morally defensible - all he says is that the intention of preventing infection is basically a sign of hope; that it is a sign that there is care of the well being of others and perhaps the possibility of being converted more and more into the truth of the catholic faith.
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This is a very clear post on the subject.

Br. Paul
 
Ron_Conte said:
It is scary how much power the secular news media has over members of the Church. The media can misrepresent the words of the Pope, and thereby spread a false doctrine very rapidly to millions of Catholics. The harm that is done in just a brief space of time, using the power of modern communication, is immense and incalculable.

Extended quote from the book is here:
bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11804798

The relevant portion is quoted below:

Pope Bendict: There may be a basis in the case of some individuals, as perhaps when a male prostitute uses a condom, where this can be a first step in the direction of a moralization, a first assumption of responsibility, on the way toward recovering an awareness that not everything is allowed and that one cannot do whatever one wants. But it is not really the way to deal with the evil of HIV infection.

That can really lie only in a humanization of sexuality.

Peter Seewald: Are you saying, then, that the Catholic Church is actually not opposed in principle to the use of condoms?

Pope Benedict: She of course does not regard it as a real or moral solution, but, in this or that case, there can be nonetheless, in the intention of reducing the risk of infection, a first step in a movement toward a different way, a more human way, of living sexuality.
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Ron Conte,

Thank you so much for clarifying this.

So if I understand correctly, this is what the Pope meant:

In the case of male prostitutes, conception is not possible anyway and there is no sin of contraception in that sense. There is only the sin of sodomy and the sin of endangering the life of the other by possibly infecting him. Thus to realize at least one of the sins (causing infection to the other) is a sign of moral progress in that specific case.

If that is the case, the Pope was spot on I think. I don’t think he intended the media to use it for a case for use of condoms for HIV prevention in Africa. Because, in that specific case you have contraception which can never under any circumstances be morally permissible.

God Bless 🙂
 
Ron_Conte said:
It is scary how much power the secular news media has over members of the Church. The media can misrepresent the words of the Pope, and thereby spread a false doctrine very rapidly to millions of Catholics. The harm that is done in just a brief space of time, using the power of modern communication, is immense and incalculable.

Extended quote from the book is here:
bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11804798

The relevant portion is quoted below:

Pope Bendict: There may be a basis in the case of some individuals, as perhaps when a male prostitute uses a condom, where this can be a first step in the direction of a moralization, a first assumption of responsibility, on the way toward recovering an awareness that not everything is allowed and that one cannot do whatever one wants. But it is not really the way to deal with the evil of HIV infection.

That can really lie only in a humanization of sexuality.

Peter Seewald: Are you saying, then, that the Catholic Church is actually not opposed in principle to the use of condoms?

Pope Benedict: She of course does not regard it as a real or moral solution, but, in this or that case, there can be nonetheless, in the intention of reducing the risk of infection, a first step in a movement toward a different way, a more human way, of living sexuality.
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Do not be afraid. The pagan media has no power as long as faithful Catholics bear witness to the truth. And the Vatican does not exist in a bubble. They will be informed. Distortions have been spread by the media in the past and the Church has always worked to correct these distortions.

Peace,
Ed
 
While the different intepretations seem plausible in an academic bubble - or such a major change the Vatican site has not a single thing - that seems oddly “off”
 
It’s so upsetting that the media wants to report such rubbish. I hope that the Priests on Sunday will be telling everyone that all contraception is still sinful.
 
Thyme said:
It’s so upsetting that the media wants to report such rubbish. I hope that the Priests on Sunday will be telling everyone that all contraception is still sinful.
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That’s what I’m worried about. I’m more worried about the cafeteria or progressive “catholics” who will try to use this statement as some loophole to spread errors…A large number of catholics use contraception anyway, so you can only imagine how much wreckage they are gonna spread with this quote taken out of context…The same way they did with the bishops statement about voting…

Either way this is the Pope’s own book with his private thoughts and issues. He is not speaking ex-cathedra or making a statement regarding doctrine…The Pope is allowed to ponder on issues in his own private life whenever he wants.

Not even the Pope can change what has been bound by the Church ex-cathedra. Many anti-popes have already tried and the Holy Spirit does not let them everytime…
 
Why would the use a condom, for the purpose of preventing disease, by two people engaging in a sodomous act be immoral?

The Church condemns contraception. However, a sodomous act is, of itself, not procreative (which is why it is immoral), thus the use of a barrier in such a case (it seems to me) is not a contraceptive act. thoughts, anyone?

(it is NOT THE SAME, however, in cases where infertile or elderly couples, or couples during what is thought to be the woman’s infertile period, are engaging in natural sexual intercourse - in that case they are still engaging in act which is of itself procreative, even if in that particular situation at that particular time, it won’t result in procreation. As such, they cannot use a condom).
 
Please God, no more European popes.

Please God, no more popes who had anything whatsoever to do with Vatican II or the 1970s.
 
BillyHW said:
Please God, no more European popes.

Please God, no more popes who had anything whatsoever to do with Vatican II or the 1970s.
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Please no comments such as this.

VIVA LA PAPA!

Long Live Pope Benedict XVI

He did NOT approve condom use. Period… Once again the Media is not reading the actual text or something…or relying on other reporters etc.

They got it wrong!
 
This is what the Pope said, and I believe he is in fact leaving the door open for condom use in certain instances.

"There may be a basis in the case of some individuals, as perhaps when a male prostitute uses a condom, where this can be a first step in the direction of a moralization, a first assumption of responsibility, on the way toward recovering an awareness that not everything is allowed and that one cannot do whatever one wants. But it is not really the way to deal with the evil of HIV infection.

That can really lie only in a humanization of sexuality."

Peter Seewald: Are you saying, then, that the Catholic Church is actually not opposed in principle to the use of condoms?

Pope Benedict: She of course does not regard it as a real or moral solution, but, in this or that case, there can be nonetheless, in the intention of reducing the risk of infection, a first step in a movement toward a different way, a more human way, of living sexuality.
 
BillyHW said:
Please God, no more European popes.

Please God, no more popes who had anything whatsoever to do with Vatican II or the 1970s.
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Please God, no more Sedevacantists.

Seriously, why are you pinning this all on VII? VII is (or at least was) as anti-condom as much as VI and the early Church would have been. The Pope was misinterpreted, AGAIN, and if you look above you see some righting of the wrongness of the media.
 
No the Pope did NOT allow condoms. The News is mistaken. He actually said it was still not moral.
 
My liberal Christian boyfriend saw this in the news today as well as the billions of others. He was one of the possibly millions who thought that the Pope was endorsing condoms as birth control. I told my boyfriend “No, he is not endorsing them as birth control. The media twists everything around. I will wait till his actual book comes out to see what he actually said.”
 
He’s expressing that using them is wrong always but that not everyone goes to use them for morally wrong reasons.
 
BillyHW said:
Please God, no more European popes.

Please God, no more popes who had anything whatsoever to do with Vatican II or the 1970s.
Click to expand...
No doctrine changed with the Vatican II. Pope Benedict deserves more credit than he is given, but it’s difficult for people to realise how much he deserves then the media is so anti-Catholic. Also, the Pope’s nationality has nothing to do with God’s laws, or how good the Pope is for that matter.
 
PetersKeys said:
Either way this is the Pope’s own book with his private thoughts and issues. He is not speaking ex-cathedra or making a statement regarding doctrine…The Pope is allowed to ponder on issues in his own private life whenever he wants.
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Specifically, this was said as extemporaneous remarks during an interview.

So it is not an act of the infallible Magisterium.
It is not an act of the non-infallible Magisterium.
It is not even a work of private theology.

Extemporaneous remarks rank even lower than the well-considered words of anyone writing as a private theologian.
 
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