Religion and Education Level

[lemonbeam]

Why does the research show that the more educated a person becomes the less religious they are?

I’ve heard atheists say that low IQ / Intelligence leads to faith in God?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Because statistics can be ‘made’ to say anything at all?

FWIW, I have a college degree in both English and History and I’m a member of the Hook, Line and Sinker club. . .Totally obedient to every teaching, staunch believer. By all the ‘statistical’ rules I should be less religious than if I were a high-school only graduate. But when I was a high-school-only graduate, I was far more ‘lax’ about my faith and faith practices than I am now.

In fact the more ‘educated’ I become, the more I am able to understand and to practice my Faith. . .

OTOH, there are some who have advanced degrees and who think that their ‘brains’ make them capable of superior judgment. They look down on Faith because they think it ‘contradicts’ reason (they’re wrong but that’s another thread topic) and reason has become (for many) their god. Like the rich man in the parable, they are full of ‘potential’ but when asked to take that potential and go beyond to what will be for them a greater potential and good, they are stuck because they just can’t do what to them seems an ‘abandonment’ of all they have. All they consider ‘good’ is in the brain; asked to use their brain and go ‘beyond’ to whole hearted acceptance (which they see as ‘folly’), they will turn back sadly, for they have many (intellectual) possessions. . .

 

[Disciple4Christ]

A great number of the most intelligent people in history where religious. People who are ignorant of that fact can and will tell you any thing they want you to believe.

Albert Einstein was a believer I suppose he wasn’t included in there survey either:shrug:
Following is one of many quotes from him.
Could God Have Done It Differently?
“What I am really interested in, is knowing whether God could have created the world in a different way; in other words, whether the requirement of logical simplicity admits a margin of freedom.”

More on Einstein:
eucharist-emc2.blogspot.com/2008/05/more-light-on-einsteins-catholic.html

The truth is out there !

 

[jmcrae]

Why does the research show that the more educated a person becomes the less religious they are?

I’ve heard atheists say that low IQ / Intelligence leads to faith in God?

Because the Universities tend to be anti-religious, and in order to make progress up the ladder of degrees, it’s essential that you not disagree with your professors - who are people who made it through the system by not disagreeing with their professors - etc.

 

[Philthy]

Why does the research show that the more educated a person becomes the less religious they are?

Presumed intelligence - especially when prideful - can become a significant barrier to faith.
There have also been plenty of brilliant theists - einstein, darwin, newton, pasteur, etc etc

I’ve heard atheists say that low IQ / Intelligence leads to faith in God?

So what? Despite all their talk, they still lack the basic answers to the fundamental questions that mankind has been asking since we began: who am I? What is the meaning of life? etc etc.

 

[paul_c]

Because statistics can be ‘made’ to say anything at all?

FWIW, I have a college degree in both English and History and I’m a member of the Hook, Line and Sinker club. . .Totally obedient to every teaching, staunch believer. By all the ‘statistical’ rules I should be less religious than if I were a high-school only graduate. But when I was a high-school-only graduate, I was far more ‘lax’ about my faith and faith practices than I am now.

In fact the more ‘educated’ I become, the more I am able to understand and to practice my Faith. . .

OTOH, there are some who have advanced degrees and who think that their ‘brains’ make them capable of superior judgment. They look down on Faith because they think it ‘contradicts’ reason (they’re wrong but that’s another thread topic) and reason has become (for many) their god. Like the rich man in the parable, they are full of ‘potential’ but when asked to take that potential and go beyond to what will be for them a greater potential and good, they are stuck because they just can’t do what to them seems an ‘abandonment’ of all they have. All they consider ‘good’ is in the brain; asked to use their brain and go ‘beyond’ to whole hearted acceptance (which they see as ‘folly’), they will turn back sadly, for they have many (intellectual) possessions. . .

here’s the pew report data on this question:
religions.pewforum.org/pdf/table-income-by-tradition.pdf
religions.pewforum.org/pdf/table-education-by-tradition.pdf

Catholics’ education and income levels tend to track the population as a whole. And yes, athiests tend to be more educated and have higher incomes than the population but not as high as Jews or Hindus. I don’t think it means anything in particular. I think there are other factors that overwhelm their religious choices.

 

[jpjd]

It could be that higher education leads to a focus on making more money, which tends to lead to materialism, status seeking, etc, These values are in conflict with religious teachings. I think high education/high income people have to have a strong religious beliefs to stay true to the Gospel message in the midst of all the material distractions.

 

[turtle18]

Pride, ego and arrogance. Most people I know who are really smart seem to believe they got that way on their own and through their own hard work.

 

[Mark77]

**Unfortunately, the highly “educated” elites from Harvard & Columbia & other Ivy League schools today are the most truly ignorant among us!

They are not rigorously or academically challenged with a broad based education. Instead, they are indoctrinated with a one sided, narrow minded education & shallow propaganda. This has been verified by the recent “global warming” scandal.

If you are well educated & truly open minded, you listen to all sides of every argument equally & make up your own mind. You surely don’t don’t fall into group think, & if anything, you try your best to disprove your own argument, so you won’t be embarrassed if you endorse a position.**

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

 

[Cracker_Mom]

Why does the research show that the more educated a person becomes the less religious they are?

I’ve heard atheists say that low IQ / Intelligence leads to faith in God?

Education doesn’t always denote high intelligence.
And low IQ may lead to humility, which may lead to God. We all know where pride led Satan…

 

[anEvilAtheist]

If atheists say that, I’d ask to see the studies. I don’t know whether atheists on average really are smarter, but I know that some of the studies arguing that they have higher IQs are very bad. Here are criticisms of two studies which attempted to link atheism and IQ:

bhascience.blogspot.com/2009/03/atheism-and-iq-explained-by-savannah.html
bhascience.blogspot.com/2008/10/atheists-are-more-intelligent-but-does.html

The second study was by someone who also wrote a widely panned study that attempted to link race and intelligence and show that black people are stupider than white people.

But it’s also not true that there’s absolutely no relationship between intelligence and belief in God. In a 1996 study of top scientists, only 7% believed in a personal God (Larson and Witham 1998, ”Scientists Still Reject God” Nature 394). I don’t know what the reason for this is, but I find it interesting at least.

 

[Malia_Belen]

Because the Universities tend to be anti-religious, and in order to make progress up the ladder of degrees, it’s essential that you not disagree with your professors - who are people who made it through the system by not disagreeing with their professors - etc.

I think you have a point here too. I remember my first semester of college. Atheist professor, he said somethings about God and the Bible that I prefer not to type here with my own fingers. I was eighteen, new to college and called my mom in tears. I made it through college for two degrees though and I’m still a Christian. It is definitely a gigantic effort these days to graduate from a public college/university and keep your faith.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

I think you have a point here too. I remember my first semester of college. Atheist professor, he said somethings about God and the Bible that I prefer not to type here with my own fingers. I was eighteen, new to college and called my mom in tears. I made it through college for two degrees though and I’m still a Christian. It is definitely a gigantic effort these days to graduate from a public college/university and keep your faith.

Some professors seem to believe they have a mission to free students from their beliefs.My kids have run into that in secular colleges.

 

[Spirithound]

I have an MA in Linguistics, and I am now a seminarian. In my class, there is a former businessman, a former science teacher, and several young men with science degrees.

Also remember that non-attainment of an advanced degree is not indicative of low intelligence.

 

[Philthy]

Any study which, based upon statistics reporting the percentage of atheists among scientists, concludes that atheism and intelligence are related simply draws an invalid conclusion IMHO. The reason is simple: science is a discipline which seeks to explain the physical world. Why would we expect that those who’s intelligence is directed toward such a discipline would be inclined to embrace the spiritual? I certainly wouldnt.
In the same way, the speculation about “higher education leading to atheism” fails to recognize something that statistics fail to grasp: certain forms of education represent nothing more than a financial investment in one’s future. If someone, motivated by the prospect of higher income, pursues higher education why would we be surprised to find that they are, like the scientific group, more material? I certainly wouldnt.
The bottom line is that the entire combined intellect of all higher education and scientific information has failed to definitively demonstrate the validity of atheism. It has failed to explain how our universe came to be, how humanity has become what it is, why humanity is what it is within the context of the theory of evolution, and why there is a longing within each human being - throughout all ages and cultures - that seeks to explain those basic, inherent and exclusively human issues: Who am I, What am I, Why am I, What does the future hold for me?

 

[paul_c]

Any study which, based upon statistics reporting the percentage of atheists among scientists, concludes that atheism and intelligence are related simply draws an invalid conclusion IMHO. The reason is simple: science is a discipline which seeks to explain the physical world. Why would we expect that those who’s intelligence is directed toward such a discipline would be inclined to embrace the spiritual? I certainly wouldnt.
In the same way, the speculation about “higher education leading to atheism” fails to recognize something that statistics fail to grasp: certain forms of education represent nothing more than a financial investment in one’s future. If someone, motivated by the prospect of higher income, pursues higher education why would we be surprised to find that they are, like the scientific group, more material? I certainly wouldnt.
The bottom line is that the entire combined intellect of all higher education and scientific information has failed to definitively demonstrate the validity of atheism. It has failed to explain how our universe came to be, how humanity has become what it is, why humanity is what it is within the context of the theory of evolution, and why there is a longing within each human being - throughout all ages and cultures - that seeks to explain those basic, inherent and exclusively human issues: Who am I, What am I, Why am I, What does the future hold for me?

I’ll go a step further and state that academic and financial achievement are not indicative of only capability but also of desire. An athiest, who by definition has no afterlife to consider, will be more motivated to go after material success. A devout Christian will often make very different choices. For instance, working 80 hour weeks can lead to material success but at the same time leave no room for anything else, like Church and Family. Material success can often drive people to bend the rules or to make heartless decisions that a spiritual minded person would not make. And further, there are different kinds of intelligence. Spiritual intelligence is different than political intelligence which is different than scientific intelligence which is different than physical intelligence, etc.

Trying to make the inference that religion is not true because a certain percentage of scientists don’t believe it, is in fact bad science. Science relies on testing hypotheses through measurement and observation and there is no way to measure or observe God directly and you certainly can’t prove that God doesn’t exist. But we can observe the fruit of his labors and his reality is accessible through reason. Thomas Aquinas led the way on that front 750 years ago.

 

[a_priori]

Why does the research show that the more educated a person becomes the less religious they are?

I’ve heard atheists say that low IQ / Intelligence leads to faith in God?

This happens because people on both sides of the discussion refuse to calm down. Religious people should stop forcing the square peg into the round hole by insisting that legitimate scientific discovery is bogus. Scientists should understand that it is not unreasonable to suggest that “real” things do indeed happen outside the fishbowl of spacetime that their instruments will never detect.

They are so busy deriding each other that the search for knowledge in general is damaged.

 

[anEvilAtheist]

Any study which, based upon statistics reporting the percentage of atheists among scientists, concludes that atheism and intelligence are related simply draws an invalid conclusion IMHO. The reason is simple: science is a discipline which seeks to explain the physical world. Why would we expect that those who’s intelligence is directed toward such a discipline would be inclined to embrace the spiritual? I certainly wouldnt.

That’s a good point. The relationship is far less dramatic in non-scientific academic fields. However, even in non-scientific fields, there are more atheists than in the population as a whole. I find this interesting, though I recognize that correlation is not causation and do not assume that higher intelligence necessarily led to their atheism instead of there being some third factor that is related to both.

In the same way, the speculation about “higher education leading to atheism” fails to recognize something that statistics fail to grasp: certain forms of education represent nothing more than a financial investment in one’s future. If someone, motivated by the prospect of higher income, pursues higher education why would we be surprised to find that they are, like the scientific group, more material? I certainly wouldnt.

But there is a difference between materialism in the sense of believing that the material world is all there is and being materialist in the sense of only desiring money. I know a lot of atheists who value their relationships with family and friends far more than money.

The bottom line is that the entire combined intellect of all higher education and scientific information has failed to definitively demonstrate the validity of atheism.

True. Popularity is no proof of truth.

It has failed to explain how our universe came to be, how humanity has become what it is, why humanity is what it is within the context of the theory of evolution, and why there is a longing within each human being - throughout all ages and cultures - that seeks to explain those basic, inherent and exclusively human issues: Who am I, What am I, Why am I, What does the future hold for me?

I agree. Those are separate questions.

 

[anEvilAtheist]

I’ll go a step further and state that academic and financial achievement are not indicative of only capability but also of desire. An athiest, who by definition has no afterlife to consider, will be more motivated to go after material success. A devout Christian will often make very different choices. For instance, working 80 hour weeks can lead to material success but at the same time leave no room for anything else, like Church and Family. Material success can often drive people to bend the rules or to make heartless decisions that a spiritual minded person would not make. And further, there are different kinds of intelligence. Spiritual intelligence is different than political intelligence which is different than scientific intelligence which is different than physical intelligence, etc.

But atheists don’t love their families any less. A father does not need an afterlife in order to value his baby’s laughter or his child’s first steps. Such moments have immense value, whether or not life continues after death. I don’t believe that Christians only spend time with their families because God will punish them otherwise; I believe that they love their families immensely and value every moment they have together. I don’t see why you should expect this to be any different for atheists.

Trying to make the inference that religion is not true because a certain percentage of scientists don’t believe it, is in fact bad science. Science relies on testing hypotheses through measurement and observation and there is no way to measure or observe God directly and you certainly can’t prove that God doesn’t exist. But we can observe the fruit of his labors and his reality is accessible through reason. Thomas Aquinas led the way on that front 750 years ago.

I generally agree with this. But I would add that just because you can’t prove or disprove whether there is some sort of supernatural entity doesn’t mean that no religious beliefs can be disproven. It’s certainly possible to come up with a conception of God that is logically contradictory.

 

[paul_c]

But atheists don’t love their families any less. A father does not need an afterlife in order to value his baby’s laughter or his child’s first steps. Such moments have immense value, whether or not life continues after death. I don’t believe that Christians only spend time with their families because God will punish them otherwise; I believe that they love their families immensely and value every moment they have together. I don’t see why you should expect this to be any different for atheists.

I accept this. You are rigth

I generally agree with this. But I would add that just because you can’t prove or disprove whether there is some sort of supernatural entity doesn’t mean that no religious beliefs can be disproven. It’s certainly possible to come up with a conception of God that is logically contradictory.

You are probably right that some concepts of God might be disprovable. But I’ve never seen any example of the Christian God being disproved scientifically. Have you?