Religion and Education Level

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Pope John Paul II – Stupidity is also a gift of God, but one mustn’t misuse it.
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(1 Cor 1:26-29 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.
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It’s rather obvious that God doesn’t need our intelligence to accomplish His will. But in my observation, linking to the quote of Pope John Paul II, those with less intelligence can make dumb decisions with the same gusto as the most brilliant. But, God does seem to have a particular love for the poor and the despised. He asks us to care for them. Frankly, according to Bell Curves, He made far less brilliant people than average people. I think our world would have far more problems if everyone had IQ’s above 140. There would be no one willing to do menial labor. I would assume not too many people working on road crews have 140 IQ’s. When I go to daily Mass I see a real mix of people - mostly average folk who are elderly, a few younger people, probably more women than men, some professionals, and mostly people in the middle class - yet a few Lexus’ are in the lot but more Hondas like mine. I think the elderly are there for reasons of the Holy Spirit working in people preparing them for the next life – and I also think a certain number of those are there because of choice - IOW they wanted to be there in their younger days but responsibilities prevented it.

One reason I see for the more intelligent to NOT choose God is that the intelligent are more easily self-sufficient and because of that don’t have the same need for God pressed upon them. Those with more need are more inclined to seek God to fulfill those needs.

Overall, I don’t see much relationship between IQ and God.fearing people. I think it might be that occupation that’s chosen. I’ve read that most doctors pray for their patients. Many evolutionists do not believe in God. The doctor is a doctor because of natural intelligence and a genuine desire to help the sick. The evolutionist has a certain amount of peer pressure to “not believe” but; IMO as more religious people see that evolution doesn’t conflict with a belief in God - in time this will change, too. There are just too many factors “beyond” IQ that fall in the mix. But still, God seems to have a special love for the poor - the average - the disadvantaged.

MonFrere

Just a couple more thoughts.
 
MonFrere said:
It’s rather obvious that God doesn’t need our intelligence to accomplish His will. But in my observation, linking to the quote of Pope John Paul II, those with less intelligence can make dumb decisions with the same gusto as the most brilliant. But, God does seem to have a particular love for the poor and the despised. He asks us to care for them. Frankly, according to Bell Curves, He made far less brilliant people than average people. I think our world would have far more problems if everyone had IQ’s above 140. There would be no one willing to do menial labor. I would assume not too many people working on road crews have 140 IQ’s. When I go to daily Mass I see a real mix of people - mostly average folk who are elderly, a few younger people, probably more women than men, some professionals, and mostly people in the middle class - yet a few Lexus’ are in the lot but more Hondas like mine. I think the elderly are there for reasons of the Holy Spirit working in people preparing them for the next life – and I also think a certain number of those are there because of choice - IOW they wanted to be there in their younger days but responsibilities prevented it.

One reason I see for the more intelligent to NOT choose God is that the intelligent are more easily self-sufficient and because of that don’t have the same need for God pressed upon them. Those with more need are more inclined to seek God to fulfill those needs.

Overall, I don’t see much relationship between IQ and God.fearing people. I think it might be that occupation that’s chosen. I’ve read that most doctors pray for their patients. Many evolutionists do not believe in God. The doctor is a doctor because of natural intelligence and a genuine desire to help the sick. The evolutionist has a certain amount of peer pressure to “not believe” but; IMO as more religious people see that evolution doesn’t conflict with a belief in God - in time this will change, too. There are just too many factors “beyond” IQ that fall in the mix. But still, God seems to have a special love for the poor - the average - the disadvantaged.

MonFrere

Just a couple more thoughts.
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When you look at the apostles, especially St. Peter, you see faithful rather than intellectual-at least that’s my take.And which apostle did Christ choose to give the Keys of the Kingdom?
Intellect’s nothing to sniff at, but the highest IQ score’s less than a drop in the eternal bucket compared with the Wisdom of God.And sometime’s the simpler souls can see that first.
 
paul_c said:
I accept this. You are rigth

You are probably right that some concepts of God might be disprovable. But I’ve never seen any example of the Christian God being disproved scientifically. Have you?
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No, I think it’s pretty hard to scientifically disprove a given conception of God. Even a conception of God in which God created the earth 10 minutes ago cannot be scientifically disproved unless that conception of God also holds that God is not a deceiver. But if you accept that your version of God would not try to fool people, then I think that Young Earth Creationism can be disproven by the evidence of human civilizations and fossils that all the evidence indicates are from well over 6000 years ago. Also, a conception of God in which he can do absolutely anything seems to be disprovable since then he could create a rock so heavy he can’t lift it, and still be able to lift it. His omnipotence would instead have to mean that he can do everything that it is logically possible to do.
 
anEvilAtheist said:
No, I think it’s pretty hard to scientifically disprove a given conception of God. Even a conception o f God in which God created the earth 10 minutes ago cannot be scientifically disproved unless that conception of God also holds that God is not a deceiver. But if you accept that your version of God would not try to fool people, then I think that Young Earth Creationism can be disproven by the evidence of human civilizations and fossils that all the evidence indicates are from well over 6000 years ago. Also, a conception of God in which he can do absolutely anything seems to be disprovable since then he could create a rock so heavy he can’t lift it, and still be able to lift it. His omnipotence would instead have to mean that he can do everything that it is logically possible to do.
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Again, the minimum would be around 12000 years. See here Interpreting the Genealogies of Genesis
 
buffalo said:
Again, the minimum would be around 12000 years. See here Interpreting the Genealogies of Genesis
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I think the Earth is much older, but I don’t think this is the right place to debate that. My point was that it’s possible to have an inconsistent set of beliefs. It may be possible for a Young Earth Creationist to account for the evidence, but not if they also hold that God could not be a deceiver and God would be a deceiver if he created evidence that appeared to indicate that the Earth was much older.
 
anEvilAtheist said:
No, I think it’s pretty hard to scientifically disprove a given conception of God. Even a conception of God in which God created the earth 10 minutes ago cannot be scientifically disproved unless that conception of God also holds that God is not a deceiver. But if you accept that your version of God would not try to fool people, then I think that Young Earth Creationism can be disproven by the evidence of human civilizations and fossils that all the evidence indicates are from well over 6000 years ago. Also, a conception of God in which he can do absolutely anything seems to be disprovable since then he could create a rock so heavy he can’t lift it, and still be able to lift it. His omnipotence would instead have to mean that he can do everything that it is logically possible to do.
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No, an omnipotent God is not disprovable. You can’t say he’s omnipotent and then say that he can’t do something. That is just you putting an illogical limit on his capability.
 
anEvilAtheist said:
I think the Earth is much older, but I don’t think this is the right place to debate that. My point was that it’s possible to have an inconsistent set of beliefs. It may be possible for a Young Earth Creationist to account for the evidence, but not if they also hold that God could not be a deceiver and God would be a deceiver if he created evidence that appeared to indicate that the Earth was much older.
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If one is walking on the beach and sees left footprints as far as one can see, what should they conclude? Was a deceiver at work?
 
paul_c said:
No, an omnipotent God is not disprovable. You can’t say he’s omnipotent and then say that he can’t do something. That is just you putting an illogical limit on his capability.
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Rightly interpreted, I don’t think an omnipotent God is disprovable. Most theologians interpret omnipotence as the ability to do everything it is logically possible to do. God cannot create a married bachelor.
 
anEvilAtheist said:
Rightly interpreted, I don’t think an omnipotent God is disprovable. Most theologians interpret omnipotence as the ability to do everything it is logically possible to do. God cannot create a married bachelor.
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Catholics know God as being almighty, that is He does what He sets out to do.
 
buffalo said:
If one is walking on the beach and sees left footprints as far as one can see, what should they conclude? Was a deceiver at work?
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Maybe I’m a little slow, I don’t get where you’re going with this. I would conclude that a one-legged man had previously walked on the beach.
 
buffalo said:
Catholics know God as being almighty, that is He does what He sets out to do.
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But don’t they also see God as a God of reason? Wouldn’t he be unable to do something that contradicted logic as it would contradict his nature?
 
anEvilAtheist said:
Maybe I’m a little slow, I don’t get where you’re going with this. I would conclude that a one-legged man had previously walked on the beach.
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That is one possibility. On another thread there were five or six possibilities posted.

The important one to consider is this one:

That the tide came in and washed away all the right ones. No deceiver at work. Just an observer seeing this at the right time, but not being able to see it all.
 
anEvilAtheist said:
But don’t they also see God as a God of reason? Wouldn’t he be unable to do something that contradicted logic as it would contradict his nature?
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Yes, there are a number of things God cannot do:

God cannot lie
God cannot sin
God cannot be unjust
God cannot be all loving
God cannot make a square circle
etc…
 
buffalo said:
That is one possibility. On another thread there were five or six possibilities posted.

The important one to consider is this one:

That the tide came in and washed away all the right ones. No deceiver at work. Just an observer seeing this at the right time, but not being able to see it all.
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The tide explanation seems a lot less likely since the person would have had to have been walking exactly along where the tide would later come to.

But I still don’t see how this translates well to the instance of God. If God made it so that the scientific method was reliable, except when it came to the age of the Earth, that would be somewhat deceptive.
 
anEvilAtheist said:
The tide explanation seems a lot less likely since the person would have had to have been walking exactly along where the tide would later come to.

But I still don’t see how this translates well to the instance of God. If God made it so that the scientific method was reliable, except when it came to the age of the Earth, that would be somewhat deceptive.
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Really take some time to think about this.
 
Malia_Belen said:
I think you have a point here too. I remember my first semester of college. Atheist professor, he said somethings about God and the Bible that I prefer not to type here with my own fingers. I was eighteen, new to college and called my mom in tears. I made it through college for two degrees though and I’m still a Christian. It is definitely a gigantic effort these days to graduate from a public college/university and keep your faith.
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I think so too, and in fact, I remember the very day that my younger brother (who has always aspired to a career in science) came home from his grade 6 class - a teacher he admired had said in his hearing, “Good scientists don’t believe in things like God.” Who can say what he was reacting to when he said that, but my brother really took it to heart, and has refused to attend Church from that day to this - and it’s paid off for him - he’s doing extremely well with his doctoral degree in Physics. :cool: 🤷
 
anEvilAtheist said:
But if you accept that your version of God would not try to fool people, then I think that Young Earth Creationism can be disproven by the evidence of human civilizations and fossils that all the evidence indicates are from well over 6000 years ago. Also, a conception of God in which he can do absolutely anything seems to be disprovable since then he could create a rock so heavy he can’t lift it, and still be able to lift it. His omnipotence would instead have to mean that he can do everything that it is logically possible to do.
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Young Earth Creationism is an opinion held by some Christians, but it isn’t necessary to the Christian faith. The world can be billions of years old, and Adam and Eve could even be billions of years old, and the essentials of Christianity aren’t really affected by that idea. All we are required to believe about the Creation is that, God created everything that is, both seen and unseen, and that Adam and Eve had no human ancestors, and they are the ancestors of every human being who has ever lived. If evolution is true, it seems less likely that a whole crowd of humans just suddenly popped up out of nowhere, but if two of them appeared, and they happened to live in the same place at the same time, so that they were able to reproduce, then there you have the human race.
 
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