Religion and Science!

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grannymh said:
People, who view the world through the lens of science, can easily agree and that is wonderful in itself.

However, when one uses only the lens of the empirical method, one experiences extreme difficulty in finding the spiritual soul which connects humans to our Creator God. It isn’t that our ability to measure and predict events in the material/physical domain is faulty; it is that God and the spiritual soul are in a different domain.

Obviously, our Creator God can use “natural” means to unfold His plan for the cosmos. What some, not all, people with only scientific vision may miss is that God is “supernatural” when it came to the creation of the human person, you and I. Our human nature unites both the natural domain and the supernatural domain into one single person, you, me, who belong to an unique species founded in an unique manner.
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I cannot understand how anyone can be a Christian, reject the supernatural aspect of human nature and deny that God has intervened in human affairs with answers to prayer… :confused:
 
Elizabeth502 said:
From Forum Rules:
Code: 
                                             ~Don't answer a question with a question. If you don't know the answer, say so.
~Rhetorical questions may be used to introduce a new aspect of inquiry but not to evade challenges
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Thank you, Elizabeth, for pointing that out! I shall avoid that mistake in future - but sometimes the first question is unnecessary anyway. I suppose the solution is to point that out to the questioner…🙂
 
tonyrey said:
Do you believe the soul unfolded** by natural means **including the use of chaotic and random phenomena?
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I believe God is entirely capable of drawing out the soul from emerging Homo sapiens through natural processes. After all, God created nature!
 
tonyrey said:
Please explain when and how God intervenes in human affairs.

Excellent question. Check out the series of five volumes on divine action that are the proceedings of a ten-year series of conferences sponsored by the Vatican. You can find the chapter summaries here. ctns.org/books.html

The conference series participants did not reach a clear consensus on God God works, but general agreement that it is a crucial question.
So science cannot explain the spiritual aspect of reality?
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tonyrey said:
I cannot understand how anyone can be a Christian, reject the supernatural aspect of human nature and deny that God has intervened in human affairs with answers to prayer… :confused:
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I do understand. Maybe that is because I have a broad range of children and friends.
 
StAnastasia
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How do you define “supernatural”? **

It seems truly bizarre that as a Catholic you would have to ask that question of another Catholic. 🤷
 
StAnastasia said:
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Of course not. But it pokes a big hole in the idea that God is always there to prevent needless suffering.
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Tiny clarification.
The idea that God is always there to prevent needless suffering is a misuse of the Presence of God. Furthermore, in terms of a personal relationship with God, we cannot accurately judge needless suffering by human wishes.
 
grannymh said:
The idea that God is always there to prevent needless suffering is a misuse of the Presence of God. Furthermore, in terms of a personal relationship with God, we cannot accurately judge needless suffering by human wishes.
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True!
 
grannymh said:
*I cannot understand how anyone can be a Christian, reject the supernatural aspect of human nature and deny that God has intervened in human affairs with answers to prayer… *
I do understand. Maybe that is because I have a broad range of children and friends.
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Do you believe it is reasonable?
 
StAnastasia said:
Please explain when and how God intervenes in human affairs.
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But they agree that God does intervene…
So science cannot explain the spiritual aspect of reality?
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That would be beyond the purview of science.
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Then science cannot explain the spiritual aspect of persons on this planet?
What evidence is there that He cares?
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The very fact of creation.
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Nothing else?
Can science explain in principle every apparent miracle and answer to prayer?
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Some scientists would answer “yes”; I don’t personally think so.
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So miracles and answers to prayer do occur? And evidence that God not only cares but intervenes?
  1. Is your list of evils conclusive evidence that horrible suffering is never prevented by a loving God?
Of course not. But it pokes a big hole in the idea that God is always there to prevent needless suffering.
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Isn’t God everywhere, aware of everything and able to prevent needless suffering?
  1. Do you regard it as conclusive evidence that God is not omnipotent or not infinitely good?
No.
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Then is the list of evils intended to highlight our inability to explain why they are permitted?
  1. How do you reconcile those evils with your Christian faith - or do you think it is impossible?
I believe God created a universe endowed with autonomy, desiring that in that universe life should evolve on some planets that could evolve into morally responsible and spiritually responsible life. On earth that is us.
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I agree with you but are all those evils essential for moral and spiritual development?
  1. If it is impossible why are you a Christian?
It’s not impossible.
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I entirely agree! 🙂
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tonyrey said:
Superior to nature with regard to personality, autonomy, rationality, conscience and love - related to the attributes of God and not nature.
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Yet these are all naturally attributes of humans (at least most of the ones I know!).
 
tonyrey said:
  1. Do you believe God **never **works through scientifically inexplicable events?
  2. Do you reject **all **miracles?
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Clearly I didn’t say that at all. And I think my definition of “miracle” may be broader than yours–I find the existence of the human species “miraculous”, for example.

Here’s what I said last time:
I think the view that God needs to work through “scientifically inexplicable” events is too narrow. God isn’t limited in this way.
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I think many people get hung up on the ideas that

  1. *]“scientifically explicable” events never involve God
    *]God must use “scientifically inexplicable” events to reveal Himself to us
    *]“scientifically inexplicable” events are needed to justify our belief in God

    All of these are false. God is just as real whether we find His action in “scientifically inexplicable” events or not.
 
StAnastasia

**Why does it seem bizarre? **

Because you pass yourself off as a Catholic but do not seem to know the definition of the word “supernatural.” How is that possible. Have you never read a catechism? Have you never heard a homily. Have you never been through RCIA? Have you never in your life until today asked another Catholic for the definition of supernatural? :eek:
 
Clearly I didn’t say that at all. And I think my definition of “miracle” may be broader than yours–I find the existence of the human species “miraculous”, for example.
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nonanon, I regard the birth of my children as “miraculous” even though I fully understand the process of insemination, implantation, gestation, and delivery.
All of these are false. God is just as real whether we find His action in “scientifically inexplicable” events or not.
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A dear friend of mine was saved from self-destruction through alcoholism by an event that is quite explicable on naturalistic terms. I believe God led her to be where she needed to be to receive the message. Richard Dawkins would probably regard it as a mere meaningless coincidence, but for my friend it meant the difference between life and death.

StAnastasia
 
Charlemagne_II said:
StAnastasia**Why does it seem bizarre? **Because you pass yourself off as a Catholic but do not seem to know the definition of the word “supernatural.” How is that possible. Have you never read a catechism? Have you never heard a homily. Have you never been through RCIA? Have you never in your life until today asked another Catholic for the definition of supernatural? :eek:
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Instead of your sarcasm, why don’t you explain to me what you mean by “supernatural”?
 
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