Religion and Suicide

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think about what atheism really says.

we are an accident. we have no purpose. there is no reason for us to be here.

the atheist will say that he finds fulfillment in relationships, hobbies, maybe just a good beer.

but when those relationships close, those hobbies bore, and that beer stales, what then? nothing.

an atheist, truly alone, has no reason to wheather the hardships of life. why bother, he is just an accident.

but we, we always have Jesus. when nothing else is left, we still have a rock upon which we trust. we have reason to persevere.
 
I can tell you that when I was not religious I tried suicide - although in my mind I still try to say it wasn’t suicide, but merely a diversion. I wasn’t atheist, but I didn’t practice or think about religion precisely because I though it bound me into a certain “slavery” of sorts. Coming back to the faith has definitely freed me up from some of the things I was “shackled” with and didn’t even know it. And conversely I find those religious “shackles” are more freeing than I thought free could be.

God Bless,
Snert
 
Some people claim that they can tolerate a Godless existence; puffing themselves up as mature masters of the social and existential order of things. But they tolerate it because they have to; because they were born and because they fear death. But they are not willing to believe in God, and so they attempt to find other Gods or pleasures that are subordinate to their will rather then master of their existence. Sometimes, for some people, the emptiness of life becomes so unbearable that death becomes more reasonable then a life of mere pleasure seeking and treasure hunting, and so, they end it.

What really gets me is that they are willing to bring another living being into the world while believing or claiming to know that there is no purpose meaning or value to existence on top of the fact of there being untold potential horrors, social-insecurities and the cold inevitability and disparity of death. If they had any care at all, they would become celibate, rather then risk bringing a little child in to such a cruel and heartless world.

I think that teaching naturalism is one of the greatest evils man has ever conceived of.
Atheism by force of knowledge is one thing. But atheism by desire is to me irrational. You have to take life for granted or be seriously disturbed in order to believe that there is some benefit in disbelief. It is a sign of a healthy, intelligent, caring and positive mind to believe in God and teach others of such a being.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
If atheism is true, why do more atheists commit suicide than theists? Wasn’t atheism supposed to liberate us from the shackles of religion?

ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/161/12/2303
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371 person study group??? What a joke. Funny they did not choose to reveal the chi-square value for the validity of their study group. One must wonder why?

This reminds me of the genius Mark Twain, who said: “There are lies, damned lies and there is statistics”. Also my professor at college, who said: “Statistics is just like a bikini. It shows a lot, but hides the important parts.”

Here is a very strong correlation between the person’s height and their religion: “smaller people tend to be Catholic, taller people tend to be Protestant”. The correlation is very strong and totally meaningless. It comes from the fact that in Europe, the Mediterranian people (Italians, Spanish, etc…) are predominantly Catholics, while the Scandinavians, Brits and Germans are more likely Protestants, and the average height is correlated with the distance from the Equator. Even a strong correlation does not imply causation. The quoted study is nonsensical, but of course some people will catch any straws to declare the inferiority of atheists. Pathetic, really.
 
Spock said:
371 person study group??? What a joke. Funny they did not choose to reveal the chi-square value for the validity of their study group. One must wonder why?
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how many depressives can you round up place with the right profile? 371 doesnt sound to bad, ive seen a number of studies using fewer.
Even a strong correlation does not imply causation. The quoted study is nonsensical, but of course some people will catch any straws to declare the inferiority of atheists. Pathetic, really.
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no one is attempting to imply causation, being atheist doesnt cause suicide, it correelates to suicide.

but i noticed that you didnt provide a counter argument, you just denigrated the study on very generic basis, do you have a reson to believe the correlation wrong?

as to inferiority of atheism as an idea, its irrational at its base, its says that the universe came from nothing. thats not a foundation for a palace.
 
I always figured that a follower of Marx would argue that our economic system alienates people to such a point that they start killing themselves. Freud might argue that it is our society that screws us up so much that we feel pressed to end our time in this life. There are a variety of reasons that one might offer. One might even argue that if religion is a crutch, then those without religion or its functional equivalent, suffer the effects of our “unnatural” society and are more susceptible to it’s negative effects.

There’s some truth in the above, but it doesn’t mean I believe in all of it of course.😉 If I am a fool, then let me be a fool for Christ. He tricked me, and I let myself be tricked.
 
Spock

*371 person study group??? What a joke. Funny they did not choose to reveal the chi-square value for the validity of their study group. One must wonder why?

This reminds me of the genius Mark Twain, who said: “There are lies, damned lies and there is statistics”. Also my professor at college, who said: “Statistics is just like a bikini. It shows a lot, but hides the important parts.” *

But of course if the statistics had proved the opposite, we could forget Twain, right? :rolleyes:

“I Have Come That They Might Have Life And Life More Abundant!” John 10:10
 
Charlemagne_II said:
But of course if the statistics had proved the opposite, we could forget Twain, right?
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Yes, you could. Statistics is wonderful tool, but it must be used correctly. The usual problem is the incorrect sampling method. In mathematical statistics whole chapters are devoted to the question of sampling.
 
Spock

Exactly, so you can’t dismiss a sampling unless you have dismissed the samplers and the samplees.
 
There’s an old song lyric that says, “Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die.”

Not true of the suicide. Atheism is compatible with suicide (the atheist philosopher Schopenhauer certainly thought so). “They tell us that suicide is the greatest piece of cowardice… that suicide is wrong; when it is quite obvious that there is nothing in the world to which every man has a more unassailable title than to his own life and person.” And it’s a well know fact that Schopenhauer always slept with a pistol in his bed.
 
Spock said:
Yes, you could. Statistics is wonderful tool, but it must be used correctly. The usual problem is the incorrect sampling method. In mathematical statistics whole chapters are devoted to the question of sampling.
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there isn’t a problem with the sampling, the sample size seems more than reasonable for the given the probable group size. after all, how many suicidal depressives do you think there are at any one time?
 
The philosopher Albert Camus was a defiant atheist like Schopenhauer. Yet he said, “All men have a sweetness in their life. That is what helps them go on. It is towards that they turn when they feel too worn out.” I wish Camus had explained how we find any “sweetness” or consolation in atheism.
 
At the website below the worldwide suicide rates are given from highest to lowest on a colored map. Note that the highest suicide rates are in the red (the communist, largely atheist) countries of China, the old Soviet Union, Eastern Europe and Germany (especially the old East Germany).

The rate for Australia is also among the highest. But that rate is high not because of atheistic communism so much as because the rate of suicide in the Northern Territory among the Aborigines is due to mental illness.

Note that Africa has the lowest rate of all. Religion is pandemic among the Africans.

commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Suicide_rates_map_hu.svg
 
The reasons why people commit suicide vary. Some folks suffer from serious depression. I’m bipolor and I’ve been at the brink of suicide more than once. Interestingly, my two most serious depressive episodes, including the one that led to hospitalization for suicidal depression, occurred at times in my life when I felt I was closet to God - at my most spiritual time. Chemical depression alters one’s ability to be rational, so to expect a depressed person to act rationally based on their spiritual beliefs or lack thereof makes no sense to me. And I’ve been there.

I also know quite a few folks who have killed themselves, my father (also bipolar) among them. One elderly lady was a lifelong, dedicated Christian who fell into depression and despair and blew her head off with a shotgun one Thanksgiving. Another fellow, also elderly and a lifelong Christian, did the same thing, though not on a holiday, during depression after heart surgery.

Depression doesn’t discriminate between religous and non-religious folks and there are many factors - money/economy, physical and mental health, lonliness, etc (and note that chemical depression doesn’t need a “reason”). To simply look at statistics for parts of the world that aren’t among the most “religious” and draw a conclusion that this fact plays a causal role in the rate of suicide is, I think, a bit of a stretch.
 
To simply look at statistics for parts of the world that aren’t among the most “religious” and draw a conclusion that this fact plays a causal role in the rate of suicide is, I think, a bit of a stretch.

Well, I think the map speaks for itself. You can look for some other cause of the higher rate of suicide in those countries.

I think in Christian countries there has been a strong tradition of opposition to suicide. Might that not be an element in the equation?
 
“I admit that murder must be classed among acts distinctly improper and, indeed, morally wrong. But suicide seems to me the supreme blasphemy against God and man and beast and vegetables; the attack not upon a life, but upon life itself; the murder of the universe.” G.K.Chesterton
 
Charlemagne_II said:
“I admit that murder must be classed among acts distinctly improper and, indeed, morally wrong. But suicide seems to me the supreme blasphemy against God and man and beast and vegetables; the attack not upon a life, but upon life itself; the murder of the universe.” G.K.Chesterton
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I agree that suicide is a blasphemy against God and must always be discouraged by preaching the love of God. However, not all suicide victims are in the right frame of mind and neither do all of them commit suicide out of hatred or spite, but rather to relieve themselves of the suffering of existence. If i thought there were no God, i would commit suicide too if i had the courage. If there is no purpose meaning or value to existence, then suicide is a rational option; and thus, “euthanasia” becomes the height of all reason, maturity and dignity. But the fact is, there is a God, and I just don’t believe that all suicide victims go to hell; i believe that some are shown mercy depending on their capacity for knowledge and action. We must be careful not to scorn suicide victims, but rather we should pray for them. A work friend of mine committed suicide.

Peace.
 
MindOverMatter said:
I agree that suicide is a blasphemy against God and must always be discouraged by preaching the love of God. However, not all suicide victims are in the right frame of mind and neither do all of them commit suicide out of hatred or spite, but rather to relieve themselves of the suffering of existence. If i thought there were no God, i would commit suicide too if i had the courage. If there is no purpose meaning or value to existence, then suicide is a rational option; and thus, “euthanasia” becomes the height of all reason, maturity and dignity. But the fact is, there is a God, and I just don’t believe that all suicide victims go to hell; i believe that some are shown mercy depending on their capacity for knowledge and action. We must be careful not to scorn suicide victims, but rather we should pray for them. A work friend of mine committed suicide.

Peace.
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Before my attempt and even during it, I was so afraid that I would die and stay in the same state that I died in. That resulted in my crying out to God for help - literally. I screamed it at the top of my lungs. I guess He heard me: I’m posting this! 👍
 
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