Religion and Suicide

  • Thread starter Thread starter Charlemagne_II
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
MindOverMatter

*We must be careful not to scorn suicide victims, but rather we should pray for them. A work friend of mine committed suicide. *

Agreed. I would never do that. I have known two people who committed suicide. I don’t think Chesterton was scorning them, just trying to describe their condition.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
MindOverMatter

*We must be careful not to scorn suicide victims, but rather we should pray for them. A work friend of mine committed suicide. *

Agreed. I would never do that. I have known two people who committed suicide. I don’t think Chesterton was scorning them, just trying to describe their condition.
Click to expand...
I don’t think you would scorn anyone.🙂
I didn’t mean to imply that. I was just using your post as an opportunity to express my thoughts on the matter.🙂

Hey. Visit my new thread. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=323773
 
Leela

*Argument By Suicide:
(1) Atheists are more lilkely to commit suicide than believers
(2) Therefore, God exists *

Or rather:

Essentially negative philosophies are more likely to end in suicide.
Atheism is an essentially negative philosophy.
Atheists are more likely to commit suicide.

After all, atheism is negative, no matter how you try to cover it.

“God does not exist.”

That is the central tenet. Other negatives follow:

There is no life after death.
There is no objective morality.
There is no purpose for our being.
There are no sins.
There is no forgiveness for our sins.
There is no commandment to love.
There is no commandment to forgive.
There is no commandment to help others.
There is no prohibition of suicide.

Etc., etc.
 
MindOverMatter

I don’t think you would scorn anyone.

Much to my chagrin, I have … mea maxima culpa! 😦
 
Albert Camus, the famous French atheist philosopher, spent much of his writing trying to find a reason why we should not commit suicide (see The Myth of Sisyphus especially).

The great French philosopher, Jacques Maritain, an atheist in his youth, promised himself to commit suicide if he did not find a purpose for being within a year. He and his wife both found their purpose in the Catholic Church and especially through the writings of Thomas Aquinas.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Albert Camus, the famous French atheist philosopher, spent much of his writing trying to find a reason why we should not commit suicide (see The Myth of Sisyphus especially).

The great French philosopher, Jacques Maritain, promised himself to commit suicide if he did not find a purpose for being within a year. He and his wife both found their purpose in the Catholic Church and especially through the writings of Thomas Aquinas.
Click to expand...
Do you have any electronic books on it?🙂
 
I think a good argument could be made that Christians, believing in such a wonderful after-death existance, kill themselves with the belief that God will forgive them - after all he knows how much they are suffering/not in their right mind, so they get out of their horrible existance and into heaven. I’m pretty sure the life-long Christians that I knew who killed themselves were operating on this belief, as indeed was I when I was on the verge (IOW, I’m pretty sure they didn’t expect to go to hell). If you don’t believe there is any better place to go, why be in such a hurry to get there?
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Essentially negative philosophies are more likely to end in suicide.
Atheism is an essentially negative philosophy.
Atheists are more likely to commit suicide.
Click to expand...
I think it is more a matter of that people whose religion teaches them that they will burn in hell for all eternity for committing suicide are less likely to commit suicide than people who don’t have a religion that teaches that they will burn in hell for all eternity for committing suicide.
Charlemagne_II said:
After all, atheism is negative, no matter how you try to cover it.

“God does not exist.”
Click to expand...
The only think that follows from atheism is that the person does not believe in gods. that person can still believe anything else.

Best,
Leela
 
Leela

The only think that follows from atheism is that the person does not believe in gods. that person can still believe anything else.

An atheist can believe in heaven and hell?

Whew! I didn’t know that!
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Leela

Argument By Suicide:
(1) Atheists are more lilkely to commit suicide than believers
*(2) Therefore, God exists *

Or rather:

Essentially negative philosophies are more likely to end in suicide.
Atheism is an essentially negative philosophy.
Atheists are more likely to commit suicide.

After all, atheism is negative, no matter how you try to cover it.

“God does not exist.”

That is the central tenet. Other negatives follow:

There is no life after death.
There is no objective morality.
There is no purpose for our being.
There are no sins.
There is no forgiveness for our sins.
There is no commandment to love.
There is no commandment to forgive.
There is no commandment to help others.
There is no prohibition of suicide.

Etc., etc.
Click to expand...

It is a serious misconception to suppose that atheists cannot be happy & moral, & Catholics do themselves no favours at all by repeating such tired fictions. There was a time when there were no commandments - yet social justice did not begin in the 1200s BC. As for the notion that a commandment is required for people to act or act morally, that is simply not true: do people never read Aristotle, Epicurus, Epictetus, or any of the other numerous non-Christian & non-Jewish ethical teachers 😦 ?​

 
Gottle of Geer

*## It is a serious misconception to suppose that atheists cannot be happy & moral, & Catholics do themselves no favours at all by repeating such tired fictions. *

So I guess that as a Catholic you don’t think there is really much difference between an atheist and a Catholic?

Then how do you read the following? “The fool in his heart says there is no God.” Psalms That’s your Bible, isn’t it?

There was a time when there were no commandments - yet social justice did not begin in the 1200s BC.

There were always commandments … written in stone or on the heart (natural law). And there was always social justice when the commandments were heeded.

*As for the notion that a commandment is required for people to act or act morally, that is simply not true: do people never read Aristotle, Epicurus, Epictetus, or any of the other numerous non-Christian & non-Jewish ethical teachers ? *

Don’t be absurd. How many people do you know who get their moral guidance by reading Aristotle?
 
Serious depression which can easlily lead to suicide is a result of hopelessness.

What can be more hopeless than somewho thinks that nothing exists after life. If there is only nothingness after life, then what is the use. I know when I lost my faith, I lost all hope of anything better and I tried it.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Leela

The only think that follows from atheism is that the person does not believe in gods. that person can still believe anything else.

An atheist can believe in heaven and hell?

Whew! I didn’t know that!
Click to expand...
I can’t imagine believing in either, but I’m sure some people do. Do most Catholics believe in heaven and hell?
 
wcknight said:
Serious depression which can easlily lead to suicide is a result of hopelessness.

What can be more hopeless than somewho thinks that nothing exists after life. If there is only nothingness after life, then what is the use. I know when I lost my faith, I lost all hope of anything better and I tried it.
Click to expand...
I don’t think there is anything inherently hopeless about not believing in life after death. If so, we may as well ask, what is the point of life after death if there is no life after life after death? At some point you have to find meaning in where you are right now instead of living for the future, don’t you think? For example, my daughter and I are about to share a big bowl of popcorn. That’s plenty of meaning for me.
 
wcknight said:
Serious depression which can easlily lead to suicide is a result of hopelessness.

What can be more hopeless than somewho thinks that nothing exists after life. If there is only nothingness after life, then what is the use. I know when I lost my faith, I lost all hope of anything better and I tried it.
Click to expand...
The point that seems to be getting missed here is that depression is a mental illness - it renders the sufferer unable to think in a rational manner or make rational decisions. In such a state, reality is pretty meaningless. Thus, hope is not recognized but this is due to the illness and not the sufferer’s religion or lack thereor. I’m bipolar - I know what I’m talking about. I’ve know several good, life long Christians who killed themselves due to depression - and if I personally know several that surely indicates there are many more.
 
wcknight said:
Serious depression which can easlily lead to suicide is a result of hopelessness.

What can be more hopeless than somewho thinks that nothing exists after life. If there is only nothingness after life, then what is the use. I know when I lost my faith, I lost all hope of anything better and I tried it.
Click to expand...
I think the theists posting here have gotten something at least partially right. As Gottle said, it’s a misconception to think that all atheists are prone to depression because of their belief system (or lack thereof). However, I could believe that atheist materialists have less respect for the integrity of human life than orthodox believers do, both other people’s lives and their own, and that that could contribute to a predisposition to suicide.

(Note to Leela: this isn’t offered as proof of God’s existence, however.)
 
tomarin said:
I think the theists posting here have gotten something at least partially right. As Gottle said, it’s a misconception to think that all atheists are prone to depression because of their belief system (or lack thereof). However, I could believe that atheist materialists have less respect for the integrity of human life than orthodox believers do, both other people’s lives and their own, and that that could contribute to a predisposition to suicide.

(Note to Leela: this isn’t offered as proof of God’s existence, however.)
Click to expand...
I don’t agree that believers hold human life as more valuable than nonbelievers. Those who do not believe in an afterlife may have a greater sense of just how precious are rare such life is when they ponder the universe as described by science.

I also think a President who is not convinced that the soldiers he sends to their deaths will go to Heaven would be less inclined to send them to their deaths.
 
Leela said:
I don’t agree that believers hold human life as more valuable than nonbelievers.
Click to expand...
Then why all the fuss and bother from (some) Christians about legalized abortion and euthanasia, what Pope John Paul II called “the culture of death”?
Those who do not believe in an afterlife may have a greater sense of just how precious are rare such life is when they ponder the universe as described by science.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but it’s not an explicit part of their creed, so I see it as optional. I think it’s certainly possible for an atheist to arrive at a pro-life position but it’s a very rare occurence in my experience.
I also think a President who is not convinced that the soldiers he sends to their deaths will go to Heaven would be less inclined to send them to their deaths.
Click to expand...
I think you’re oversimplifying the Christian position on this, but – opinion noted.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top