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lemondiesel
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which examples did you have in mind?
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Pieman333272
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Well, congratulations on thinking about it, even there you went farther than a **lot **of people (even some Christians), but, not to be antagonistic, the universe isn’t about what you believe. The universe (and what is beyond it) stays the same regardless of what anybody believes - me or you or Jesus or the Dali Lama or Plato or the Pope or anybody - one should not believe something for the sake of believing it, but because they genuinely find that the evidence supports it. I think it’s important for people to know that - especially those esoteric types. It’s fine to believe in whatever, but don’t be surprised if the facts contradict it (which they may or may not do).
This is going to be interesting.
In other words, your view of the Bible is just as valid as mine.
What is this difference? Can you give contextualized examples where God directly contradicts himself in the OT and the NT?
Well, I certainly appreciate Plato (bought his complete dialogues and letters earlier in the summer, as a matter of fact), but I still have some problems with this view (and again, let me be clear I am NOT trying to be antagonistic and I understand that this is merely what YOU believe). I’ll put them in question form again:
- What are some examples’ of Jesus’ teaching which clearly did not come from Judaism or Greco-Roman paganism and are direct or near direct matches with classical Hermeticism? (By the way, you reminded me to get a book about Hermeticism for when I’m done with my other reading
) - Why is your view that the explanation for Jesus’ unique teachings being that he was largely influenced by Egyptian mystery schools (namely Hermeticism) any better than fringe claims that he studied with the Mayans, Celts, or Tibetans?
I’ll get back to you on the Ebionites later, although I applaud you for not falling for that “Gnosticism was founded in 40 A.D.” pseudohistory. Either way, let me look a little more into the Ebionites and Nazarenes before I respond to this.
Like what? Can you name a key dogma in Catholicism that originated in Greco-Roman paganism which is not found in Ebionite or Nazarene Christianity? Practices and minor doctrines (such as the use of Holy Water or Clergy’s apparel) don’t count.
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Pieman333272
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Joseph Stalin - regimental responsible for killing at least 20 million people, more probably over 45 million.
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lemondiesel
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One day, Man woke up on a rock ball, being spun around a large fire object in the sky. Lost and confused. With all due respect, I think that allows us to believe whatever we want.
We can’t observe outside this Universe, nor can we recreate the moment before the Big Bang. Where everything came from is solely on faith.
Wait, someone is valid?
OT god has humanistic traits. That’s all I was implying.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave People must go back into the cave, to help the souls still trapped. Sound similar to the story of Jesus?
- What are some examples’ of Jesus’ teaching which clearly did not come from Judaism or Greco-Roman paganism and are direct or near direct matches with classical Hermeticism? (By the way, you reminded me to get a book about Hermeticism for when I’m done with my other reading
Hermeticism revolves around different levels of understandings. Some people (I believe) mistake this for different levels of reality. That is only a tiny portion on the whole of Herms.
I was talking more along the lines of hierarchies or taxes which are now in the form of charity.
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StrawberryJam
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And we know what about Stalin’s religious upbringing? His education?
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davidv
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What evidence can you cite that supports what you state above is true?
Why is this issue? Throughout salvation history God has used imperfect humans to accomplish His plan. Were Moses, or David perfect? Why should the God’s prophets, such as Peter and his successors be held to a higher standard?
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davidv
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Given that there is strong evidence, his behavior, where he started from isn’t really relevant. Even if he had a religious education, it is clear that he abandoned any practise of it.
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lemondiesel
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Already having this conversation above
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davidv
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Can you identify a post number where you present information that is evidence of the Church misrepresenting Christ’s teaching.
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ThinkingSapien
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davidv
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That certainly recounts the the exchange,. However I don’t see evidence for the the claim of misrepresentation. All that is present is a bare assertion. Given the lack of evidence I conclude that it is a false claim, and all conclusions based on it are also false.
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ThinkingSapien
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Without evidence and given that he acknowledges that he has no evidence beyond his belief it may also be fair to consider it a statement of faith. Though it being a statement based on faith doesn’t prevent the statement from being false, true, or some where in between.
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lemondiesel
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As I stated in an above post, I try and find connections of Jesus to earlier teachings. The example I gave, which I think is a fair one, is Plato’s definition of the life of a philosopher. For me, this helps explain the life and purpose of Jesus. God Himself, the holder of all Truths, comes back into the cave to help the lost and confused souls. Sure other people make it out, but only through Jesus can we come to understand.
My opinion rests on the issue on being able to make an ideology stand the test of time. Sometime after, oral stories spread. At a time of illiterate people, stories constructed like the Iliad and Odyssey were best used towards these people.
I know there are writers who existed that mention Jesus, but how many of them were poor and destitute? I have a problem with letting philosophers and scribes write, if you have trouble noticing that.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_source Completely hypothetical and easily counter-pointed but that was what change my mind set on Jesus. “A Revolutionary Biography” by one of the founders of the Q documents was a good read too.
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lemondiesel
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just as this conversation was getting good pieman 
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Roman_Catechism
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Well, if I we were talking about Catholicism in particular, the religion itself indicates that the rich and/or those in positions of power need to treat the poor fairly, and at the same time it doesn’t teach any sort of Robin Hood form of justice be enacted by those who are poor. Those, imo, seem to contradict the practical-atheist-sounding idea that religion in general exists to just to keep the poor man down and in check. And there are plenty of benefits to being a Catholic that have nothing whatsoever to do with power or money.
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Flavius_Aetius
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Do you think these killings were solely for religious purposes? Do you even understand the basic history of what was happening through Reformation Germany, or how dangerous it was to the State of a country if their population was split religiously like France?
It was the King’s, Princes, and Nobles whose hands are bloodied in these relgious wars. The Church didn’t have some private army to go through all these lands and kill wantonly. Most of the time the rebellious nobility would convert to these new Protestant beliefs for selfish reasons such as to steal profitable Church lands and sell the belongings of the Church.
While you already mentioned this is just a matter of faith for you, it doesn’t change that it’s grasping at nothing but air, it’s essentially the same belief as fundamentalists that the Roman Empire created Catholicism mixed in with some Freshman college philosophy.
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jmcrae
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