Religion: No Hooters shirts in Mass, please

[eegardner]

Most don’t explicitly admit to choosing one Protestant denomination over another because of toys or donuts, their criteria is often fellowship which is code for donuts and coffee. :doh2:

If someone is waffling between Lutherans, Episcopalians, Evangelical Presbyterians and Great Commission Network, then doctrine is obviously not that important, especially when they mention things like it’s where “all the kids go” in town, and their families’ donut preference.

That’s why I’m glad that I am and plan to always be Catholic. Even if I did change parishes because of toys or donuts ( I would not), I would still get the same message in the Mass.

But then maybe being Protestant and unsure of a denomination, choosing a church where “all the kids go”, might make the difference in whether you can get your children to voluntarily attend. Could be a good idea if you have no loyalty.

 

[Elixir]

I wanted to add a caveat to my previous post:

Someone’s “Sunday best” is going to be casual wear for someone else. The point is why not wear as nice clothes as you can for Mass?

Indeed I seriously doubt that God cares what we wear BUT I think it’s important that we care, that we dress like we’re going somewhere important. It’s not an ice cream social. That old saying “dress for success” should apply to all facets of our lives. Or so I believe.

 

[Elixir]

You must have gone to the same Catholic high school as I did. A certain Sister of Charity had a profound effect on me when I was a junior. We heard, time and time again, (verbatim) “the outward appearance is indicative of the inner dispostion!!”

In other words, do not walk into my classroom with your shoes untied, your shirt tail hanging out and your hair mussed up, because I will know your thoughts are not recollected enough to understand what I am about to teach.

That’s funny but I didn’t go to a Catholic school.

I thought I made up that phrase myself!

 

[MissRose73]

As a teen, yes I wore jeans to church but they were not tight & I had to wear a nice plain shirt or sweater with them. Yes, I’ve repented my ways and no longer wear jeans to church as an adult.

I am not too happy with seeing people coming to Mass without taking a tiny bit of effort to look decent, appropriate and modest. I don’t see parents and other adults who bring children to Mass often not making the kids wear something decent, modest & appropriate too. I am tired of seeing the short shorts, short dresses/skirts, skimpy outfits, spaghetti straps, tight clothes, vulgar shirts, athletic wear, etc at Mass on many people of many ages.

I am not asking to return to the days of the 50’s/60’s where people dressed up for Mass and even to travel. Clothing that is clean, neat, modest, not short, non revealing etc is appropriate for Mass for all ages. I understand not all people can afford a large closet of clothes but having 1 outfit that is neat and clean for Sunday only is not a lot to ask out of most people.

 

[rlg94086]

The best comment I ever heard about proper Mass attire came from a priest discussing the matter with college students. He said, “Many fancy restaurants are jacket-required and you’d have no problem dressing up to eat there. Well, guess what? The Eucharist is the fanciest meal you’re ever going to eat!”

One of the best I heard was from our recent parish priest who just returned to Africa after finishing his degree studies here. During the summer, when commenting on people wearing shorts to Mass, he said “look what I have to wear…several layers…I think you all can at least wear slacks and a nice shirt!”

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

I just don’t see the connection. I’ve had plenty of people dressed in fancy suits and fancy dresses argue with me that they no longer believe in the Real Presence as I’ve seen people dressed in less than stellar clothing every week at adoration. I just don’t see what you are seeing.

You say, “fancy suits and fancy dresses.” No one is asking anyone to wear the finest money can buy to go to Mass in. A suit or dress would be what is appropriate, something other than the casual.

You may disagree, but IMO, coming to Mass dressed casually is to denigrate the Real Presence even if it doesn’t out and out deny it.

Why would there be no discussion of what is appropriate to wear to Mass 30 or 40 years ago, but now, the “it’s all about me” bunch want to argue about how much they can get away with - no bras, cut-off jeans, “crack-showing” pants, flip-flops, “wife-beater” undershirts? Oh, yes, they are the ones packing the Adoration Chapel. NOT!

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Soes that prove that Protestants are more respectful toward religion than Catholics are?

Not PROOF, but a DEMONSTRATION of SOME Protestant attitudes.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

I also wonder when I see people wearing the same clothes they must have worn when they cut the grass that morning, if they truly understand the Celebration, the Sacrifice and the Awesome Mystery that is the Mass.

 

[rlg94086]

Not PROOF, but a DEMONSTRATION of SOME Protestant attitudes.

I heard the JWs dress nice for their meetings, so I’m glad you are such a big fan.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

I heard the JWs dress nice for their meetings, so I’m glad you are such a big fan.

The Kingdom Hall is right around the block from where my mother lives in Brooklyn. I’m always to and back from Mass before they start their services, but yes, they do dress very nicely, given most of them appear to be relatively poor Hispanics - NO casual clothes! No problem at St. Stanislaus Kostka Church, either; most of the parishioners are immigrant Poles (undoubtedly swam the Vistula to get to Brooklyn) who are used to dressing up nicely for Mass.

Maybe too nicely. My father used to complain that in the wintertime, the church smelled like a tannery with all the leather coats being worn in the pews.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I agree with Rich, and I find the excuses truly lame. I also think that some of this is cultural. There are poor immigrants from poor (3rd World) countries who dress up here to go to church. (Some are Protestant, some are Catholic) Many stay in their finery all day on Sunday. When I say “finery” I do not mean designer (expensive) clothing, and I do not mean cocktail apparel (over-fancy for church services); nor do I mean Dressing to Impress. Clever people from all walks of life know how to dress merely respectably on very little money. Whereas it would never occur to them to purchase 4 pairs of flip-flops to interchange on any particular day, or designer jeans near $100/pr, they have enough imagination to know how to stretch a dollar, so that non-designer jeans can function on 6 days of the week, 1 pair of flip-flops will suffice, one “Sunday” outfit (non-ultra-casual) can be afforded, as well as a few outfits for work (whether office, manual, whatever).

Contrast that with many middle class people who choose to purchase designer jeans & multiple pairs of flip-flops, and buy frankly overpriced casual clothes (speaking of needing to Be Seen), yet complain about the “expense” of a single outfit that could be worn not only to church, but to any number of “formal” (respectful) occasions: visiting court, going to a job interview (hmmm), attending a sacramental occasion, attending a graduation or wedding, etc. I know for a fact such people are often forced to go and purchase an outfit for these occasions when they occur in their lives; interesting that ‘suddenly’ they are able to “find” the money.

No one is being “judged” by what they wear. It has nothing to do with social approval. It has to do with personal thoughtfulness, awareness of the moment, and deliberateness. Just say you can’t be bothered to be deliberate, then, about externally distinguishing this Sunday occasion from going to the grocery store or walking the dog. The little effort expended is quite a statement, but OK then.


To be clear, again: When I see others at Mass, in cutoffs & flip-flops (or pajama bottoms ) I treat them as nicely as I treat everybody who is dressed nicer than that. I don’t internally judge them, either. I’m just making a general observation, as I’m sure Rich is, expressing my overall disappointment with a modern culture that is stubbornly focused on personal convenience and comfort (The Self), as opposed to an awareness of joining together as a purposeful community to make a statement about Sunday Mass being a radically different opportunity than the rest of our week.

 

[Tigg]

To be clear, again: When I see others at Mass, in cutoffs & flip-flops (or pajama bottoms ) I treat them as nicely as I treat everybody who is dressed nicer than that. I don’t internally judge them, either. I’m just making a general observation, as I’m sure Rich is, expressing my overall disappointment with a modern culture that is stubbornly focused on personal convenience and comfort (The Self), as opposed to an awareness of joining together as a purposeful community to make a statement about Sunday Mass being a radically different opportunity than the rest of our week.

:clapping::clapping:

Exactly! It’s that “ATTITUDE” thing again!

 

[SpeakInSilence]

Let me say one thing first:

I am not advocating people dress like complete slobs to church (as long as they have something better to wear), and I do think that clothes shouldn’t advertise for something that could cause sin; neat and repaired looking clothes are best. Scripture does ask us to dress modestly.

With that said I HIGHLY doubt Jesus called people out that came to listen to him speak. Could you imagine if Christ said something along the lines as, “Hey! YOU! In the back row, how dare you come listen to me wearing that awful robe.”

Or, what if Christ mandated Simon before he was a disciple, “Simon, if you want to follow me show the proper respect, you’re going to need to wear at least your business toga.”

Actually now that I recount it, there are actually VERY little teaching in all of scripture that even talk about what you should wear, and virtually nothing from the gospel.

Don’t we actually praise saints for their pious and simple lives, and now a lot of us here are so petty as to complain about whether you wear a tee-shirt to church?

 

[DaveBj]

Let me say one thing first:

snip

Don’t we actually praise saints for their pious and simple lives, and now a lot of us here are so petty as to complain about whether you wear a tee-shirt to church?

The discussion is not about the morality of wearing a tee-shirt versus a dress shirt (provided one has a dress shirt) to Mass. It is about the morality of wearing to Mass clothing imprinted with the logo of a restaurant chain whose very name refers to ogling a woman’s breasts, when one has other clothing to wear.

The saints of the past may have dressed simply and avoided extravagant clothing, but I can guaran-dang-tee they would have not worn robes advertising Hooters, Salty Dogs, or even something as innoculous as Micky-Dee’s.

 

[AnneTeresa]

Hooters shirts and immodest dress are out of bounds. But whatever happened to it’s what’s inside that matters not what’s outside? Most of society (where I live anyway) is more casual overall than in the past. God looks at our hearts.

 

[AnneTeresa]

Let me say one thing first:

I am not advocating people dress like complete slobs to church (as long as they have something better to wear), and I do think that clothes shouldn’t advertise for something that could cause sin; neat and repaired looking clothes are best. Scripture does ask us to dress modestly.

With that said I HIGHLY doubt Jesus called people out that came to listen to him speak. Could you imagine if Christ said something along the lines as, “Hey! YOU! In the back row, how dare you come listen to me wearing that awful robe.”

Or, what if Christ mandated Simon before he was a disciple, “Simon, if you want to follow me show the proper respect, you’re going to need to wear at least your business toga.”

Actually now that I recount it, there are actually VERY little teaching in all of scripture that even talk about what you should wear, and virtually nothing from the gospel.

Don’t we actually praise saints for their pious and simple lives, and now a lot of us here are so petty as to complain about whether you wear a tee-shirt to church?

 

[Tigg]

Let me say one thing first:

I am not advocating people dress like complete slobs to church (as long as they have something better to wear), and I do think that clothes shouldn’t advertise for something that could cause sin; neat and repaired looking clothes are best. Scripture does ask us to dress modestly.

With that said I HIGHLY doubt Jesus called people out that came to listen to him speak. Could you imagine if Christ said something along the lines as, “Hey! YOU! In the back row, how dare you come listen to me wearing that awful robe.”

Or, what if Christ mandated Simon before he was a disciple, “Simon, if you want to follow me show the proper respect, you’re going to need to wear at least your business toga.”

Actually now that I recount it, there are actually VERY little teaching in all of scripture that even talk about what you should wear, and virtually nothing from the gospel.

Don’t we actually praise saints for their pious and simple lives, and now a lot of us here are so petty as to complain about whether you wear a tee-shirt to church?

The point is being completely missed! We dress (the exterior) according to the motivation of our being (the interior) comprised of attitude, piety and fidelity to what is holy. When those in the gospel parable (Matt 22: 2-14) were invited by the King to the wedding feast and came improperly dressed, **they were thrown into the fire where there was wailing and gnashing of teeth **- because they were not receptive and properly disposed to the King’s invitation.

Let me put it another way. If my daughter is to be married and I spend months planning a reception for the benefit of the guests, spend oodles of $$$ on flowers, food, drink, and hall rental and you show up in jeans and tee-shirt what is the message you are sending to me? That you couldn’t be bothered to expend any energy to honor my daughter and her special day - that to you the invitation does not invoke any effort on your part to participate in the feast and, in actuality, your slovenly appearance denigrates the affair.

In an anagogical sense, how much more tribute should be paid to the King of Kings on the Sabbath where the Celebration is offered for all?

 

[Elizabeth502]

Hooters shirts and immodest dress are out of bounds. But whatever happened to it’s what’s inside that matters not what’s outside?

Why does it have to be either/or? What is this artificial demand by people that 'I will be as sloppy as I want, because only what matters is “inside.” ’

How you prepare for anything, including but not limited to what you wear, is a reflection of the value you place on the event or the occasion.

Most of society (where I live anyway) is more casual overall than in the past.

…which is not necessarily a good thing at all – particularly when every occasion, event, and encounter, is judged to be only as important as every other one. (Thus, many people choose to have a very limited, interchangeable wardrobe, making no differentiation between the importance of one event and another.) It represents the flattening of values, which is certainly not what Catholicism stands for. Catholicism stands for some values having greater importance than others, and that the sacred has more value than the profane.

God looks at our hearts.

It’s not about God looking at our external appearance. It’s about us, all of us, understanding and respecting the occasion, whatever the occasion. It’s also about an acknowledgement of celebrating and joining in community, in recognition that I contribute to making this occasion not interchangeable with a picnic.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Let me say one thing first:With that said I HIGHLY doubt Jesus called people out that came to listen to him speak. Could you imagine if Christ said something along the lines as, “Hey! YOU! In the back row, how dare you come listen to me wearing that awful robe.”

Or, what if Christ mandated Simon before he was a disciple, “Simon, if you want to follow me show the proper respect, you’re going to need to wear at least your business toga.”

Completely off-topic. The topic was not the other six days of the week (what people wear to Catholic Bible Study on a weekday, a prayer group outside of Mass, and other opportunities to hear The Word.) It is Mass: religious services. In ancient Jewish and in modern Jewish times. people came and come to worship inTemple in their nicer clothes. (Hmmm.)

You cannot find a time in history prior to contemporary times when people treated the day of worship like every other day.

 

[SpeakInSilence]

Completely off-topic. The topic was not the other six days of the week (what people wear to Catholic Bible Study on a weekday, a prayer group outside of Mass, and other opportunities to hear The Word.) It is Mass: religious services. In ancient Jewish and in modern Jewish times. people came and come to worship inTemple in their nicer clothes. (Hmmm.)

You cannot find a time in history prior to contemporary times when people treated the day of worship like every other day.

So you’re saying that Mass today holds more importance than sitting at the feet of the Son of Man then? If Christ didn’t seem to care when people were actually crowding around him then I don’t think he’d care now. We honestly sound like the pharisees right now condemning people for

“Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!” Dirty disrespectful disciples!

Basically the same concept.

I believe 100% that we should wear things and conduct ourselves in a manner that does not cause others to think sinful thoughts, or falter in their faith. I believe in modesty at church, and at least clean clothes, but besides that I don’t see why not. There are many other rituals and tradition that should absolutely be kept scared though, but I don’t believe wearing a suit shows if you have faith or not.