Religion of peace?? Please explain.

[Lapell]

are Muslims in here wrong by believin that at the end of times Muslims will annihilate the Jews as per the hadith? i hope, because at any day we can witness a fierce war …and when it breaks up again, i hope i’ll be here to remind everyone what such teachings can lead to…

WHICH Muslims, inJesus? All of them? and according to what or whom? Maybe it’s some teaching from a great hijacker of Islam or one of his disciples… I am not saying that such teachings don’t exist, please don’t ever worry about IT! How it came to be might not have with the actual original teachings of the Qur’an…
Unless… do you read fluently Arabic from Saudi Arabia from the 6th or 7th century AD, inJesus? If you do, I take it you would be able to catch all the subtleties of that text even better than André Chouraqui claimed to have done in the course of his French translation of the original?

 

[Booklover]

This article has a chilling comparison between both Hitler and Muhammad and Mein Kampf and the Quran.

Vickie

 

[inJESUS]

Christianity and Islam are not only ideas, they are ways of life.

my way of life does not teach me that i must die because Muslims in my country want to annihilate Jews…my way of life does not teach me that i must pay money in humiliation to Muslims otherwise am dead…who is in danger here? is it not me the one fearing war because Muhammad asked people to annihilate Jews?should we or shouldn’t we assess this ideology in terms of “peace”? or is peace in the eye of the beholder?

The Qur’an specifically states that not all Christians are unbelievers.

 

[R_not]

Christianity and Islam are not only ideas, they are ways of life. And the conduct of one towards another has to be evaluated in light of what they believe.

I find the Qur’an is more about defense than offense… except towards unbelievers. The Qur’an specifically states that not all Christians are unbelievers. Actually, what would make them unbelievers is if they attacked Muslims first.

How can you say that islam is more about defense than offense when they start most of the violence during mohammed’s time? In the over 80+ battles and razas (raids) only one was for defensive purposes. mohammed realized the value of conversion by the sword - and its profits via booty and slaves - so did it quite often. At some point he realized that keeping the people alive would be profitable if they accepted subjugation so they can not only do the work that muslims didn’t want to do, but also pay the jizya tax.

And that is why since mohammed’s time the violence, the imperialistic nature of islam, has progressed like the tides of an ocean - progressing onwards. They got quite a bit of territory in the 20th century - much of Southeast Asia, Africa, Lebanon, quite a bit of Eastern Europe, Pakistan - and they are currently working on getting Kashmir, parts of the Philippines, the Gaza - and in all those areas they basically want all of it but will fool those who give up land into thinking there will be peace if they get what they want.

It is called hudna. no peace can last longer than 10 years and should be broken at any time when muslims are regrouped/rearmed. We see that so very clearly in the ME and in the Gaza and Lebanon - in some cases the muslims’s promise to keep peace barely lasted a day before they started lobbing rockets into Israel.

No, there is no defense in islam except the part to continually intimidate us to shut up about it so their image is not tarnished. They don’t want us to tell the truth so many have had lawsuits, intimidation, etc.

An example is Geert wilders and Denmark. Look at what the muslims do to them. The complete arrogance of muslims of other countries to order another country to squash their freedom of speech or else they will continue to kill them. Then they do some more killings of people in an embassy. Embassys are easy targets for them. Instead of respecting the embassadors of other countries - they bomb them. It happened in Beirut in the 1980s, and many times thereafter.

 

[Lapell]

what about the hundreds of ahadith about killing, what about Islamic history right after Muhammad’s death, and who is the authority to say do this and do not do that?

Never forget, inJesus, that the ahadith were written by people OTHER than Muhammad! Were they not written, in fact, YEARS after Muhammad’s death?

 

[Lapell]

Also, for example, see how easily Pius XII’s false bad reputation was believed only about ten years after his death…

 

[R_not]

This article has a chilling comparison between both Hitler and Muhammad and Mein Kampf and the Quran.

Vickie

Wow, thanks.

there is currently another thread that is talking about ‘Hitler’s religion’. I mentioned islam as being right along there with it - and you can guess the kick back on that one.

I am currently reading a book, ‘Paganism and Fascism’ and it goes into Nazism, Communism and islam. It is quite interesting - and very true. It makes sense after all the stuff I have already read about islam. Basically it boils down to the ‘you are either with us or against us’ mentality. And fascism is not a new thing - it has been something that has gone on probably since humans gathered into groups.

 

[Lapell]

So, false things might have been spread about Muhammad, even if the ones who started it thought of him as a hero!

 

[inJESUS]

WHICH Muslims, inJesus? All of them?

ironically, the statement was said by a Lebanes Shia and Saudi Sunni…if half of them acomplish it, if only the Shia apply it, my country will turn into ashes. WHO will stop them?

and according to what or whom? Maybe it’s some teaching from a great hijacker of Islam or one of his disciples…

 

[Lapell]

Wow, thanks.

there is currently another thread that is talking about ‘Hitler’s religion’. I mentioned islam as being right along there with it - and you can guess the kick back on that one.

I am currently reading a book, ‘Paganism and Fascism’ and it goes into Nazism, Communism and islam. It is quite interesting - and very true. It makes sense after all the stuff I have already read about islam. Basically it boils down to the ‘you are either with us or against us’ mentality. And fascism is not a new thing - it has been something that has gone on probably since humans gathered into groups.

It certainly tells of Muslim leaders who use Islam as an excuse or a justification for theirs wrongs and crimes, that I don’t have a problem with!!!

 

[R_not]

Maybe I should put ‘attack’ in my list of alternate definitions that muslims have that don’t equal our definitions.

Attack - no infidel is to attack a muslim. If/when they do such an arrogant thing then no matter what muslims have done, are doing, to them - they attack first.

here is my previous list:
muslim definitions for words:
peace - death, conversion or subjugation (dhimmittude) for infidels
**peace treaty **- can only last for 10 years and is to be broken at anytime when the muslims are rearmed/regrouped
aggressor - only infidels are aggressors. Any actions (violent) by muslims is their right per the koran
oppressor - only infidels are oppressors if they do not allow themselves to be subjugated by muslims/sharia law
(modern day) Crusader - Christians who figured out what islam is all about and are telling others the facts of islam
honor - following the koran’s teaching on this - and if it includes beating, raping, stoning, hanging, enslavement, - that is ok - it is what the koran says to do and it is considered an honor for women to endure these actions.
Innocent - only muslims are innocent. No infidel is considered to be innocent.

 

[inJESUS]

Never forget, inJesus, that the ahadith were written by people OTHER than Muhammad! Were they not written, in fact, YEARS after Muhammad’s death?

the ahadith are sometimes as important as the Quran when it is silent on some matters…the ahadith are believed by Muslims to be AUTHENTIC words of Muhammad.

Is it so easy for you guys to talk and speculate about peace in Islam. Am asking you to assess ideology and history…history is ALIVE. Am talking to you from Lebanon, i live among people who live to annihilate Jews, today or tomorrow. Am i a bigot or someone fearing for my country and family because many of Muslims here are dying to fulfill Muhammad’s words and say it boldly on tv?

 

[morning_star777]

Never forget, inJesus, that the ahadith were written by people OTHER than Muhammad! Were they not written, in fact, YEARS after Muhammad’s death?

and what about QURAN?It has been written by muhammad.

 

[Lapell]

who is the authority?(QUOTE)
**That cetainly is the 6 million dollar question, inJesus! **

 

[inJESUS]

who is the authority?(QUOTE)
That cetainly is the 6 million dollar question, inJesus!

thank you ! and this IS the danger, not our Muslim bothers on this board! ideologies, not some people.

Well, do you know of any sure authority in 7th century Arabic of the Mekka-Medina area.

sorry i don’t…yet those who translated the Quran were approved of.

 

[morning_star777]

Am talking to you from Lebanon, i live among people who live to annihilate Jews

you are
correct brother,in my country bangladesh there are no jew.but still ppl want to destroy jew!every muslim here hate jew like hell fire without any reason.in every jummah(friday prayer)muslims curse all jews and the country israel.though its clear that israel is just defending itself from terrorists.

 

[R_not]

I got a newsletter from Campus Watch about the change in direction that jihad has taken. It has been going on for some time - we are just now catching onto it.

campus-watch.org/blog/2008/06/islam-in-americas-public-schools-education.html

And one thing we hear quite often is that it isn’t the educated muslims that do such violence - well, that isn’t true. We have seen that many ‘educated’ ones are indeed bent on a jihad against us - whose ultimate goal is to establish sharia law within our land and if we are not dead or converted - then we are to be subjugated.

and why are there so many muslim countries that are so backwards, so uneducated? We see oil rich muslim countries, but their main exports besides oil is jihadists.

Could it be that 8 hours of school time is spent on learning the koran - nothing else? We see that in saudi arabia where more than 50% of the students take some form of islamic studies. Not a great thing to earn a living on - but to blow themselves and others up is something they can do. this was contained in the book, ‘The Dark Princes’.

Here is what happens in Pakistan:
jihadwatch.org/archives/018611.php

In Palestine children learn jihad and to hate very early in life:
jihadwatch.org/archives/2003/11/000128print.html

here is a whole bunch of what pal children learn:
youtube.com/results?search_query=palestinian+children+jihad&search_type=

 

[Ed_Rand]

the ahadith are sometimes as important as the Quran when it is silent on some matters…the ahadith are believed by Muslims to be AUTHENTIC words of Muhammad.

Is it so easy for you guys to talk and speculate about peace in Islam. Am asking you to assess ideology and history…history is ALIVE. Am talking to you from Lebanon, i live among people who live to annihilate Jews, today or tomorrow. Am i a bigot or someone fearing for my country and family because many of Muslims here are dying to fulfill Muhammad’s words and say it boldly on tv?

Many of those people (refugees) are living in your country because the Israeli’s have been quite successful at their attempts to annihilate them.

 

[Lapell]

deviation?i don’t think so.we gave many verses from quran those are full of historical and scientific error.and also gave reference many violent verses from quran&all are from pure translated versions of quran.

Maybe, morning_star777, but how sure can you be that the translations you have been acquainted with (unless of course you have been acquainted with the original 7th-century Arabic text and understand it fully in that language…) are really faithful to what the original text meant to say AND ACTUALLY SAID? I am not downsizing any threat here! What i am asking is: what you believe to have been taught by Muhammad himself, because probably it was SAID or WRITTEN to have been taught by Muhammad himself, do you have any SURE way to know that it ACTUALLY WAS something that Muhammad himself DID teach?..
Do you understand my question, or do you need me to tell you differently?

 

[Lapell]

sometime we ask to imams,but we can understand our mother language very wel.so we don’t need any imam or converted muslim to understand islam.as an ex muslim i know islam very wel from my childhood

I haven’t asked you this, I realize: what is your mother language?
Modern Arabic?