Religion of peace?? Please explain.

[R_not]

Many of those people (refugees) are living in your country because the Israeli’s have been quite successful at their attempts to annihilate them.

This is such a statement that indicates that there is no idea what is going on in Lebanon. the influx of muslims a few decades ago, the violence against the Christians there that grew as the numbers of muslims grew. And the current escalation of muslim violence - to not only kill as many Christians as possible, but the influx of palestinians when Jordan kicked them out of Jordan and after the Arabs promised to take care of them after the 6 Day war while the Israelis told them not to leave Israel. The Arabs promised to take care of them - instead they use them as cannon fodder.

Hezbollah has fixed themselves in the south and lob bombs into Israel daily. They lob from house to house - and if the Israelis behave as bad, little dhimmi (note sarcasm) and strike back (which makes muslims very angry since no infidel is to strike back) and maybe kill some innocents - the muslims will then use those bodies as propoganda against the Israelis - as we saw during the lebanon/Israeli war.

No one is stopping the palestinians from making a home country. They are their own worse enemies. They are given billions by many - and what do they do with that money - buy more bombs. they certainly don’t do anything to feed their own, to set up schools, or to get a trade! But, we get posts like the previous post that says it is all Israels fault that the muslims can’t take care of their own, and instead are aggressively attacking Israel DAILY!

It gets tiring to read stuff like that.

 

[Ed_Rand]

my way of life does not teach me that i must die because Muslims in my country want to annihilate Jews…my way of life does not teach me that i must pay money in humiliation to Muslims otherwise am dead…who is in danger here? is it not me the one fearing war because Muhammad asked people to annihilate Jews?should we or shouldn’t we assess this ideology in terms of “peace”? or is peace in the eye of the beholder?

What does your way of life teach you in regards to your actions towards Muslims? Our peace is in Christ, and it is not of this world.

rest assured that you happen to be among the unbelivers

I imagine that many Muslims believe that, but that doesn’t mean it’s taught in the Qur’an.

what does “attack” mean?

I meant physical attack. But now that I think of it, your attacks on the Muslim faith, saying it is from Satan and such, would also make you an unbeliever.

 

[Lapell]

So I tell you again:
All this hatred and anger towards Muslims yet it is clear that your beliefs are taught throughout the Qur’an.

Huh? I’m afraid I don’t understand you. From the Qur’an, or from what she believes to be the Qur’an?

 

[R_not]

You want to read a good book of one family that went through the islamization of their country - Lebanon? What could very well happen here with the help of the left, as Lebanon’s left helped the muslims there? The Riviera of the Middle East reduced to a pig sty of muslim violence.

And you will read what those peaceful ones do to Christian families. The torture that they do because they don’t look at any infidel as being innocent.

‘Because They Hate’ written by a Lebanese came to America and is quite honestly one of my heros.

Since I brought up the 6 Day War - here is a post on that:
israel-wat.com/h9_eng4.htm

I will keep repeating this so maybe you will stop embarrassing yourself with such inaccuracies. READ!

 

[Lapell]

what about the hundreds of ahadith about killing, what about Islamic history right after Muhammad’s death, and who is the authority to say do this and do not do that?

when i hear people on TV sheikhs or Muslims saying “rasulallah said Jews will be annihilated by Muslims”, those who do otherwise are infidels, WHO is the authority to stop them?

these people are enough to burn a whole country alive…should i rejoice or question their ideology or put my head in the sand saying " impossible, Muhammad was misunderstood"?

Put your head in the the sand? Heavens, no!! A Christian should never do that, in my view!
As to your question as to WHO is the authority to stop them, I don’t know. I wish some respected imam or ayatollah (if there were any) would stand up and say: No, dear brethren, you are greatly mistaken, it is not so! Don’t try to apply such a false teaching, Allah would be really unhappy with it, and in the afterlife you won’t get a reward for it, on the contrary, you are getting yourself a ticket for the Express to Hell!" Maybe not that, I don’t know what arguments could work with Muslims going astray while they seem to be genuinely giving honour to Allah…
I don’t know… let’s pray to God.
I can understand your distress.
However, was it really Muhammad’s fault? That’s another question!

 

[Lapell]

as if the Quran is theologically chronoligical? as if all passages make sense without relying on secondary teachings? Quranic arabic is difficult for all Arabs and the ayas are listed based on lenghth, not coherence…you must refer to many different books to understand what a sentence is refering to , many opinions, many explananation open to debate, many contradictory ahadith. its a mess without authority…this is the danger .

 

[Lapell]

the ahadith are sometimes as important as the Quran when it is silent on some matters…the ahadith are believed by Muslims to be AUTHENTIC words of Muhammad.

Is it so easy for you guys to talk and speculate about peace in Islam. Am asking you to assess ideology and history…history is ALIVE. Am talking to you from Lebanon, i live among people who live to annihilate Jews, today or tomorrow. Am i a bigot or someone fearing for my country and family because many of Muslims here are dying to fulfill Muhammad’s words and say it boldly on tv?

You just said it: they BELIEVE the ahadith to be actual words from Muhammad, and INDEED it IS a threat in itself! I never said it’s not! I wish I could have the true answer to this simple question, and maybe nobody has it, alas: **Were the ahadith truly Muhammad’s words, or not?**For if they were, Muhammad would be greatly guilty. But if they were not, he is not the guilty one and someone else is. God knows… but it would make quite a difference, if it could be known… and proven… no?

 

[Lapell]

Moreover, if they were not, it could mean that Islam as a religion is not as guilty as it had seemed, and the fault should be ascribed to a number of men who, for love of power, have hijacked a faith and caused a huge dommage to a great portion of humanity and to Islam itself! They might have been caliphs, state leaders, sheikhs or imams, or even simple counsellors, God knows! God knows!
The threat still is there, but the true cause would be other thanthe one many though to be!
My signature about the Catholic Church could be applied to Islam, if this were the case. My hunch is thatit’s at least VERY POSSIBLE!

 

[Lapell]

and what about QURAN?It has been written by muhammad.

No! It was put into writing by someone else, as Muhammad was known to be illiterate!

 

[Lapell]

thank you ! and this IS the danger, not our Muslim bothers on this board! ideologies, not some people.(quote)
**Maybe they just are feeling too powerless and sorry to utter anything here? **

 

[R_not]

Moreover, if they were not, it could mean that Islam as a religion is not as guilty as it had seemed, and the fault should be ascribed to a number of men who, for love of power, have hijacked a faith and caused a huge dommage to a great portion of humanity and to Islam itself! They might have been caliphs, state leaders, sheikhs or imams, or even simple counsellors, God knows! God knows!
The threat still is there, but the true cause would be other thanthe one many though to be!
My signature about the Catholic Church could be applied to Islam, if this were the case. My hunch is thatit’s at least VERY POSSIBLE!

That could be true - but since the koran and hadiths are the cause of these men behaving as they do - the core of the problem are the koran and the hadiths.

What you have are bad men (and women) in ALL groups - what you don’t have though in islam are the capacity to make laws to deal with them when they behave poorly against infidels - and also their own women and also sects of islam that are not of their own. You do in other societies.

There might be years, decades even, that go by without incident - and because of the koran and hadiths - it only takes a few to start the poor behavior all over again. And during those years of seeming ‘peace’ - who still is the butt end of the deal? Non-muslims are still not equal, there is still slavery going on - who gives them social justice? Or ‘honor killings’ - since those are ok under sharia law - who cares if they have social justice too?

No, islam is not peaceful - I will assert again and again. 1400 of men, and women, behaving poorly - evily in many instances - and the core of the problem is their koran and hadiths.

 

[R_not]

The last sentence in the previous post - I meant to write: No, islam is not peaceful - I will assert again and again. 1400 years with no end in sight of men, and women, behaving poorly - evily in many instances - and the core of the problem is their koran and hadiths.

 

[R_not]

It is too bad I didn’t see this article about a polygamist found in California (yeah, not a peep on the news about it - we don’t want to “OFFEND” them. But, this goes back to my post about the koran and hadiths as the core of the problem and why islam is not peaceful. Just one more example - I can get a million of them - and the examples grow daily.

A polygamist who got caught torturing 2 wives and 19 kids. yeah - tell me this guy was able to support all of these humans - I would say we are seeing some welfare cases here!
sheikyermami.com/2008/06/12/how-did-muhammad-get-his-religion-all-wrong/

 

[swariffin]

Or was it a caliph more interested in power and enjoining it and who wouldn’t mind twisting the actual meaning of some or many verses of the original text of the Qur’an to justify his misbehaviour and his crimes? couldn’t IT be possible?

Dear Lapell,

It is highly possible, especially after Muhammad had died. If I take the interpretation of Jihadist verses in Quran from a moderate Muslims, the problem lies in the definition of the “Infidel” or “Unbeliever”. In this case, Muhammad did not do a good job of defining what did he mean by Infidel or Unbeliever, and what criteria to determine that. In this case, then, the definition was subjective to the Caliph or Sultan who could easily made their own criteria in the name of Muhammad or even in the name of God.

 

[swariffin]

The Jews wanted to destroy Jesus and everything He believed. What did He do?

Here is the point. By turning the other cheek and loving our enemy, we can never lose. In fact, this is our power!!!

“No, in all these things we conquer overwhelmingly through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor present things, nor future things, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 8:37-39

A Christian is fed to the lions, singing.
Rome is ruined.–Ed Rand

Indeed you are correct, brother. But it does not mean the temple guard who struck Jesus’ face in front of the high priest Caiaphas went to heaven together with Jesus, when Jesus “turn the other cheek”.

 

[swariffin]

you are
correct brother,in my country bangladesh there are no jew.but still ppl want to destroy jew!every muslim here hate jew like hell fire without any reason.in every jummah(friday prayer)muslims curse all jews and the country israel.though its clear that israel is just defending itself from terrorists.

Even the muslims in Indonesia living in another half of the world, some may don’t even know where Israel is in the world map, already hate the Jews. For sure, when I learn history from childhood until now, there has never been a Jew conquerer ever step foot in Indonesian soil.

 

[morning_star777]

No! It was put into writing by someone else, as Muhammad was known to be illiterate!

i don’t think that the fellows of muhammed forged his scripture(QURAN).so what muhammed told, they wrote the same thing i guess.so its clear that the inhuman laws and violences of islam created by muhammed.

 

[morning_star777]

Even the muslims in Indonesia living in another half of the world, some may don’t even know where Israel is in the world map, already hate the Jews. For sure, when I learn history from childhood until now, there has never been a Jew conquerer ever step foot in Indonesian soil.

yes brother,same here.even many ppl don’t know where is israel.but who know or don’t know both want to annihilate jews

 

[Booklover]

inJESUS;3798819:

No! As if you could tell us if the editions of the Qur’an you have been acquainted with are really faith to the original Qur’an of the 7th Century… since the Qur’an is the basis for everything else in Islam, apparently!

Why are you shouting at us? Did you check the links I provided or ignored them as usual in your “looking through rose colored glasses” campaign to believe that Islam is truly peaceful and that maybe Muhammad is “a mercy to mankind” as Muslims claim he is?

Vickie

 

[Lapell]

That could be true - but since the koran and hadiths are the cause of these men behaving as they do - the core of the problem are the koran and the hadiths.

What you have are bad men (and women) in ALL groups - what you don’t have though in islam are the capacity to make laws to deal with them when they behave poorly against infidels - and also their own women and also sects of islam that are not of their own. You do in other societies.

There might be years, decades even, that go by without incident - and because of the koran and hadiths - it only takes a few to start the poor behavior all over again. And during those years of seeming ‘peace’ - who still is the butt end of the deal? Non-muslims are still not equal, there is still slavery going on - who gives them social justice? Or ‘honor killings’ - since those are ok under sharia law - who cares if they have social justice too?

No, islam is not peaceful - I will assert again and again. 1400 of men, and women, behaving poorly - evily in many instances - and the core of the problem is their koran and hadiths.

In the course of the centuries, it would not be so surprising, R_not. In our own Bible there have been so many people who sincerely thought certain passages to mean certain things, even things quite away from what actually was meant by the sacred authors, even things against the true spirit of our God! Why couldn’t this also have happened to the Coranic surahs and verses? Especially if some people with ambitions not quite in tune with them would not hesitate to twist their meaning for their wicked goals? I certainly believe this to be very possible, maybe even probable, after having read that book by this JEWISH translator of the Qur’an, André Chouraqui!