Religious Ed teacher telling kids there is no Santa

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

While we are at it, we can also educate young children who aren’t our own who say “my Grandma has gone to be with God in Heaven” that “technically, sweetie, she may be with Satan burning in Hell for all eternity- we just don’t know…”

 

[Allegra]

I know someone posted a negative reply to your post, but I see what you are saying and I agree. People may hold a position about whether they approve of incorporating Santa into the holidays, but just because they hold a strong opinion on something, that shouldn’t translate into making a decision for other families.

People are like this with other issues too. Their opinion ( however strong that they think it is), is still just that- an opinion. And everyone has one. Such people need to ask themselves if it would be okay if others were to “educate” their children on their opinions as well. I get what you were saying and no I don’t think it was “nasty”.

Yeah, I didn’t read it as “nasty” or “aggressive” either. I don’t think the poster meant to actually threaten anyone’s specific children, but to say “how would you feel if another person did the same thing to you and your family?” And in reality, there are lots of people out there who would feel completely justified in “educating” someone else’s children in their own version of matters sexual, political, etc. It’s not their place to do so and people who go around doing this sort of thing really ought to be smacked with something.

In the case of the PSR teacher, I don’t think we have enough information to be too judgmental. For example, we don’t know if the teacher decided to edify the students on this subject on her own, or if she was asked. We also don’t know if she just said that Santa doesn’t exist, or if she explained how the secular myth of Santa came from the legend surrounding the life of a real, live Catholic saint. (which would be perfectly reasonable for a religious ed classroom) A PSR teacher has a responsibility to teach the Truth according to our faith, after all. However, if some other adult who has no authority over my child attempted to dispel the Santa myth for my child, I would be extremely ticked!

 

[UbiCaritas]

Of course. And it is an implausible stretch to say teaching a child about the Saints equates to boldly proclaiming “Santa isn’t real, suck it up you welp.” And you want to show me where in the Catechism it forbids a child’s enjoyment of the Santa myth, I am happy to read it. You act as though these teachers are a bunch of ignorant, incapable automotons who cannot think for themselves or do two things at once. Do you know how easy it would be to teach about Christmas, St. Nicholas, Advent, and the like and NOT have to confirm, deny, or address Santa? This isn’t graduate level electromagnetic theory, for pete’s sake.

A deft and effective teacher wouldn’t even address Santa, since that has a different place in each family. Likewise, when teaching about easter, any easter bunny questions can simply be referred to the parents, since “we, as a class, are focusing our Lord’s death and Resurrection - the whole reason we celebrate Easter!”

Now if you are going to claim the classes need to only be brutally honest about all things in existence, so be it. Here are the things we discuss that are irrelevant to the class as well:

• The Holocaust
• Food poisoning
• Physical abuse
• Alcoholism
• The creepy guy undet the Elmo muppet

They have nothing to do with the syllabus, but let’s force them in for arbitrary reasons because THEY ARE REAL, and OUR KIDS MUST BE SHOWN THE TRUTH.

Compare it to most Catholic schools; I don’t know a single one that makes it a policy that all students must denounce Santa Claus. Do I expect them to teach that he was real, or even bring him up? Certainly not. They don’t even have to mention the concept, since the season is about Christ. Santa was never present on my Catholic school growing up, but the school certainly recognized many of the kids believed in him, and didn’t walk around squashing that. They simply taught us about that Christmas truly was from a young age.

But “not promoting something” is not nor has it ever been the same thing as “going out of your way to ensure no one in the vicinity believes something.”

Ironically, I am not even totally onboard with Santa, but I am onboard with raising my own children, and not having my authority usurped. If you can highlight in the syllabus or Catechism where the teacher has to bring up herself the notion of the Santa falsehood and crush it, I’ll give her a pass. Otherwise, I suspect she was just free-lancing, even if she was well-intended.

And on a closer-to-topic example. sodomy is wrong and is condemned by the church. It’s a sin against the sixth commandment. That does not mean that it would be appropriate for my seven-year-old’s CCD teacher to explain sodomy in detail to the class so that they really understand and obey the sixth commandment, nor that I wouldn’t be wanting that teacher’s head on a pike if my kid came home and explained homosexual sexual activity in detail to her five-year-old brother and me.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

And on a closer-to-topic example. sodomy is wrong and is condemned by the church. It’s a sin against the sixth commandment. That does not mean that it would be appropriate for my seven-year-old’s CCD teacher to explain sodomy in detail to the class so that they really understand and obey the sixth commandment, nor that I wouldn’t be wanting that teacher’s head on a pike if my kid came home and explained homosexual sexual activity in detail to her five-year-old brother and me.

No santa equals sodomy? Well I guess if the families of the children were celebrating a day of sodomy and the kids talked about it in class and it was all over the comercials… Wait, maybe they are closer to the same example in this culture.

I sure see a lot of jumping on some religious ed program with no facts provided about how or why this was done.

Bottom line is we expect the nine year old to understand the bread and wine si the body and blood, we expect them to understand the death and suffering of our Lord and the Saints but Santa… that is just drawing the line…

Wait till she finds out what happened on Good Friday and that the Easter Bunny does not exist. Unless we keep kids away from the triduum nowadays…

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Ha, my sig is pretty appropriate here…

 

[meltzerboy]

Until you know for certain that her intent was malicious, how about erring on the side of charity? Nine years old = 4th grade? This RE teacher may be a volunteer with kids who figured it out by 6 or 7 and never dreamed of a child not knowing the truth at the age of nine.

I’m older than nine, much older, and still believe in Santa!

 

[UbiCaritas]

No santa equals sodomy? Well I guess if the families of the children were celebrating a day of sodomy and the kids talked about it in class and it was all over the comercials… Wait, maybe they are closer to the same example in this culture.

I sure see a lot of jumping on some religious ed program with no facts provided about how or why this was done.

Bottom line is we expect the nine year old to understand the bread and wine si the body and blood, we expect them to understand the death and suffering of our Lord and the Saints but Santa… that is just drawing the line…

Wait till she finds out what happened on Good Friday and that the Easter Bunny does not exist. Unless we keep kids away from the triduum nowadays…

Where in your worldview is there room for imagination? Childlike wonder? Fun? At this rate, a la some of our fundamentalist friends, we must also ban fairy tales, fantasy of any kind (Tolkien, Lewis), and folk tales. Ditto make-believe, dress-up (except, perhaps, as Biblical figures), and imaginary games.

I grew up with Santa, as I mentioned in another thread, as a sort of fun sideline to Christmas. The focus was on Jesus’ birth, as it should be. Yet there was a little room for listening for sleigh bells late on Christmas Eve night, and joy at seeing a few bites taken out of the carrot left for Rudolph. In retrospect, my parents made a lot of really, really bad parenting decisions (think active substance abuse, physical abuse, not educating us, and so on), but in this one area they did spectacularly well.

Santa was as real as we chose to believe him to be, and we were allowed to believe in him if we wanted, while at the same time he was treated neither as the sole focus of Christmas nor as even some sort of all-seeing spirit. I figured out by 5 or thereabouts that he wasn’t physically present, but I still enjoyed the game. I was reading avidly by then, and in flipping through one of William Bennet’s story collections, found the famous “Yes, Virginia” letter. I read it, thought about it, decided that, if anything, I liked that explanation better than the whole “2,000-year-old-guy-who-lives-at-the-North-Pole” one, and continued to play along. I decided the same was true of the Easter Bunny the following Easter, but also decided to play along because a) again, fun and b) I could see how much joy my mom got out of playing both Santa and the Bun, and I didn’t want to spoil her happiness, either. It was interesting…I never asked if Santa was real, because I’d figured that out some time since, but when one of us asked our mom if he was, she gave us a very “Yes, Virginia” sort of answer. Now that I’m a parent and have a daughter, especially with Christmas approaching, I not infrequently shake my head at how well they managed Santa in the midst of the general ghastliness.

I spent most of my childhood with my nose in a book, so as a result, most of the games I played were equally fantastic. I was Robin Hood for a very long time, and later an Amazon pirate. Artemis, too–if the character had a bow and arrow, it had a serious appeal for me. I could simultaneously hold a strong fantastic belief in Robin Hood and greek gods without losing my similar belief in what I knew to be the reality of the Body and Blood of Christ, or the glories of the martyrs, or our wonderful Church. Imagination is a very good thing; it prepares us for the eschatological realities…which, once more, was kind of the point of the “Yes Virginia” letter. I’ve quoted it in the next post for the sake of length, and bolded some of the parts I found particularly important.

 

[UbiCaritas]

"Virginia, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men’s or children’s, are little. In this great universe of ours, man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus! It would be as dreary as if there were no Virginias. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence.

We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The external light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies. You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if you did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that’s no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

You tear apart the baby’s rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived could tear apart. Only faith, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, Virginia, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.
No Santa Claus! Thank God! He lives and lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay 10 times 10,000 years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood."

Really very Tolkienesque, at the heart of it.

“Do we walk in legends or on the green earth in the daylight?’

A man may do both,’ said Aragorn. 'For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day!”

 

[UbiCaritas]

howls with laughter

Crossposted, see above. Clearly, great minds think alike.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

And on a closer-to-topic example. sodomy is wrong and is condemned by the church. It’s a sin against the sixth commandment. That does not mean that it would be appropriate for my seven-year-old’s CCD teacher to explain sodomy in detail to the class so that they really understand and obey the sixth commandment, nor that I wouldn’t be wanting that teacher’s head on a pike if my kid came home and explained homosexual sexual activity in detail to her five-year-old brother and me.

Yes, yours is a more apropos example.

I was thinking of something like a child losing a mother, and discussing it with the teacher.

Young Kid - “Daddy says mommy has gone to be with God in Heaven.” sniffs

Teacher - “Maybe, maybe not. She could be burning in Hell with Satan; we just don’t know. Now, who wants a tootsie roll pop?”

The opposite of lying is not bludgeoning something with brutal, unfiltered truth.

Couples wouldn’t stay married if it was…

 

[UbiCaritas]

Yes, yours is a more apropos example.

I was thinking of something like a child losing a mother, and discussing it with the teacher.

Young Kid - “Daddy says mommy has gone to be with God in Heaven.” sniffs

Teacher - “Maybe, maybe not. She could be burning in Hell with Satan; we just don’t know. Now, who wants a tootsie roll pop?”

The opposite of lying is not bludgeoning something with brutal, unfiltered truth.

Couples wouldn’t stay married if it was…

In that case, were I a teacher, I’d be annoyed at Daddy for not having told her something like “We hope very much that Mommy’s in Heaven, but in case she isn’t, let’s pray for her soul every night, and if she is, then I’m sure she can put those prayers to a different good use.” That having been said, nope, totally inappropriate way to handle it.

(As far as the original post described, I don’t know precisely how the teacher handled it, but the fact that she did makes me groan. Why on earth not send that one home to the parents?)

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

In that case, were I a teacher, I’d be annoyed at Daddy for not having told her something like “We hope very much that Mommy’s in Heaven, but in case she isn’t, let’s pray for her soul every night, and if she is, then I’m sure she can put those prayers to a different good use.” That having been said, nope, totally inappropriate way to handle it.

(As far as the original post described, I don’t know precisely how the teacher handled it, but the fact that she did makes me groan. Why on earth not send that one home to the parents?)

That would have been a common sense response, of course. A simple note, or phone call to discuss any concerns. Unilateral wresting of control from a parent is never cool or acceptable.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

If only there were such apologists for our faith!

 

[EasterJoy]

No santa equals sodomy? Well I guess if the families of the children were celebrating a day of sodomy and the kids talked about it in class and it was all over the comercials… Wait, maybe they are closer to the same example in this culture.

I sure see a lot of jumping on some religious ed program with no facts provided about how or why this was done.

Bottom line is we expect the nine year old to understand the bread and wine si the body and blood, we expect them to understand the death and suffering of our Lord and the Saints but Santa… that is just drawing the line…

Wait till she finds out what happened on Good Friday and that the Easter Bunny does not exist. Unless we keep kids away from the triduum nowadays…

Well, in a way sodomy is all over the media, but the innocent are not aware of it.

Declaring Santa Claus to be a myth is not in the religious ed curriculum. The teachers have plenty to teach that is in the curriculum. It will not kill them to stick with it.

 

[UbiCaritas]

If only there were such apologists for our faith!

But why are the two mutually exclusive?

Having a highly imaginative childhood gave me the sense of wonder, possibility, and curiosity that led me to examine the Catholic faith as an adult. Like many of my generation, I was strongly tempted to leave it. I’d grown up in a highly-dysfunctional family; very orthodox in certain ways, yes, but also very “holier-than-the-Pope” in others. For example, I was taught as a child that forgetting, however accidentally or innocently, so much as a single sin in Confession rendered the confession invalid and could send you to Hell. This merely terrified me as a child; as an adult, I thought it colossally stupid that, say, honestly thinking that you’d had uncharitable thoughts about other drivers on the freeway three times that week when you actually had done so four times and then confessing that you did so three times would mean you’d go to Hell, despite your best, honest efforts at a good examination of conscience. To my way of thinking, a God who would create humans to have imperfect memories about minutiae and then damn them to Hell for it was a pretty nasty sort of God with whom I wanted nothing to do. There were dozens of similar things we were taught that really had no basis in Church teaching. (I think I’ve mentioned that the wearing of nail polish, or character-themed or light-flashing tennis shoes, was also considered sinful.)

If I hadn’t had a well-developed sense of curiosity, I would have shrugged, said “this is stupid” (which, you have to admit, a lot of what I just posted was), and become an atheist. Instead, I started reading the Catechism and the Church Fathers, and took some classes from a sound theologian on eschatology, Church history and tradition, and scripture. I also read a lot of Tolkien’s writings, including his letters and a biography or two. What I found blew me away: a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful story which was real. All the things I’d loved about the magical and fantastical worlds I’d read were in those books, with the bonus that it was all true. Having that fantasy life prepared me for my life as an adult Catholic.

“Out of the darkness of my life, so much frustrated, I put before you the one great thing to love on earth: the Blessed Sacrament… There you will find romance, glory, honour, fidelity, and the true way of all your loves on earth, and more than that: Death. By the divine paradox, that which ends life, and demands the surrender of all, and yet by the taste -or foretaste- of which alone can what you seek in your earthly relationships (love, faithfulness, joy) be maintained, or take on that complexion of reality, of eternal endurance, which every man’s heart desires.” Ol’ J.R.R. had it just about exactly right.

 

[Evania]

Bottom line is we expect the nine year old to understand the bread and wine si the body and blood, we expect them to understand the death and suffering of our Lord and the Saints but Santa… that is just drawing the line…

Wait till she finds out what happened on Good Friday and that the Easter Bunny does not exist. Unless we keep kids away from the triduum nowadays…

As pointed out numerous times, not every child has trouble making that distinction. Heck, there are two brother priests in our archdiocese that used to believe in Santa as children, and they have no problem with families incorporating him. I’ll go on a limb and say that their parents must have done something right!

You act like it’s a one size fits all problem, when it boils down to the individual family. I’m not saying that some kids haven’t had an issue in this regard, but your points for the teacher doing this doesn’t speak for all families. People have pointed out many times that it wasn’t an issue in their families, and it’s insulting that someone would suggest that they are somehow failing as Catholic parents simply because their kids go through a phase in which they believe in Santa. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to drop off your kids for religious morning education and expect the teacher to be understanding enough to realize that some kids may believe in Santa, and to not ruin that before the holidays. If this was planned, how about a simple note or call to the parents beforehand?

Ha, my sig is pretty appropriate here…

No, I don’t think it is. I think it’s inappropriate to walk around with that attitude in issues that even the Church hasn’t made a statement about. Until they do, it is your opinion (and the religious education teacher’s opinion) Plain and simple. No matter how strongly and passionate you feel about it, or how concerned you are about the damage it could be doing to kids that aren’t yours, it is still just a lowly opinion. You can teach matters of faith and morals in a classroom without bringing Santa up period.

Also, the problem with your statement of that “It’s better to be slapped with the truth, than kissed with a lie” is that it only sets two scenarios up as the only options you can choose from when speaking with a person. I think as Catholics, I would hope that we agree on every core issue, but if you disagree with someone, you are fooling yourself into thinking that it’s okay to be uncharitable because it’s the “Truth”. It’s fine to admonish sinners (It’s a spiritual act of mercy), but who says you have to be uncharitable in order to do so? Just because something is “better” than another option, doesn’t mean it’s the best option overall- especially when in reality, there are other options. I guess I don’t see why you feel your signature is appropriate in this particular topic, unless you feel it gives you some sort of moral authority when you post. (Even though no one is sinning by choosing/not choosing to incorporate Santa into their Christmas celebrations)

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Sometimes I wake up and think I am in the twilight zone…

 

[pensmama87]

But why are the two mutually exclusive?

Having a highly imaginative childhood gave me the sense of wonder, possibility, and curiosity that led me to examine the Catholic faith as an adult. Like many of my generation, I was strongly tempted to leave it. I’d grown up in a highly-dysfunctional family; very orthodox in certain ways, yes, but also very “holier-than-the-Pope” in others. For example, I was taught as a child that forgetting, however accidentally or innocently, so much as a single sin in Confession rendered the confession invalid and could send you to Hell. This merely terrified me as a child; as an adult, I thought it colossally stupid that, say, honestly thinking that you’d had uncharitable thoughts about other drivers on the freeway three times that week when you actually had done so four times and then confessing that you did so three times would mean you’d go to Hell, despite your best, honest efforts at a good examination of conscience. To my way of thinking, a God who would create humans to have imperfect memories about minutiae and then damn them to Hell for it was a pretty nasty sort of God with whom I wanted nothing to do. There were dozens of similar things we were taught that really had no basis in Church teaching. (I think I’ve mentioned that the wearing of nail polish, or character-themed or light-flashing tennis shoes, was also considered sinful.)

If I hadn’t had a well-developed sense of curiosity, I would have shrugged, said “this is stupid” (which, you have to admit, a lot of what I just posted was), and become an atheist. Instead, I started reading the Catechism and the Church Fathers, and took some classes from a sound theologian on eschatology, Church history and tradition, and scripture. I also read a lot of Tolkien’s writings, including his letters and a biography or two. What I found blew me away: a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful story which was real. All the things I’d loved about the magical and fantastical worlds I’d read were in those books, with the bonus that it was all true. Having that fantasy life prepared me for my life as an adult Catholic.

“Out of the darkness of my life, so much frustrated, I put before you the one great thing to love on earth: the Blessed Sacrament… There you will find romance, glory, honour, fidelity, and the true way of all your loves on earth, and more than that: Death. By the divine paradox, that which ends life, and demands the surrender of all, and yet by the taste -or foretaste- of which alone can what you seek in your earthly relationships (love, faithfulness, joy) be maintained, or take on that complexion of reality, of eternal endurance, which every man’s heart desires.” Ol’ J.R.R. had it just about exactly right.

I was just thinking about Tolkien (and Lewis) with regards to this issue. Yes, the stories are fiction, but they are also true. - in that they point to the Truth.

I’m aware of consumerism, materialism, and corporate greed, especially at this time of year. I know how some folks “do Santa.” But I also know we had him first. Just like Halloween, Mardi Gras, St. Patrick’s Day, etc. The secular world will do what they want with these. But in my house these fun traditions will help us tell the Truth to our kids, not detract from it.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I was just thinking about Tolkien (and Lewis) with regards to this issue. Yes, the stories are fiction, but they are also true. - in that they point to the Truth.

I’m aware of consumerism, materialism, and corporate greed, especially at this time of year. I know how some folks “do Santa.” But I also know we had him first. Just like Halloween, Mardi Gras, St. Patrick’s Day, etc. The secular world will do what they want with these. But in my house these fun traditions will help us tell the Truth to our kids, not detract from it.

If Santa giving kids their desires was truth then I would be all for it. The fact is that the world and our culture has so tainted Santa that it would be quite the quest for any parent to give it proper context in truth…

This is an interesting thing. I will indeed give thought to our Advent tradition of praying the Saint Andrews prayer including the part of grant my desires. And how my children should understand that it is more than a list of toys…

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

You know I like you on these boards. Even if on this thread you are wacko! Now for some proper theology for kids let’s watch elf.

Btw. I do like elf…