Religious foundation authority

[STT]

Peer review is by people who claim to have scientific authority to judge the merits of a scientific work. So yes, scientists claim to have authority all the time.

As I mentioned you can engage in a scientific discussion with referee. That is not the case when someone has authority over you.

They even cite each other as authorities.

I don’t think that citation is an act of authority.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Let me write the argument in the syllogism form:

(1) Religious foundation gets its authority form God
(2) We are informed about God through religious foundation

That is it. The above argument is circular.

That is not a syllogism.

If you said:

Atheism gets its authority from men.
We are informed about men through atheism.

Would that be circular reasoning?

 

[Charlemagne_III]

I don’t think that citation is an act of authority.

We disagree.

 

[STT]

Atheism gets its authority from men.

That is true. We are social animals and we need hierarchy so we grant authority to some.

We are informed about men through atheism.

No, we are informed about men through our common senses.

Would that be circular reasoning?

No.

 

[STT]

We disagree.

Yes.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

And still you haven’t explained why you think Lucretius is rightly interpreted to be saying that the ungifted go to hell.

Yes, how is it relevent?

 

[Blue_Horizon]

That doesn’t follow from that verse but the following verse.

John 3:16-18, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”

OK, you really meant post #52.
Is english a second language for you?
I do not recall Lucretius quoting either the Jn 3:16 verse nor the Jn 3:15 verse before it.

Lucretius actually quoted “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. … Blessed art thou, Simon son of Jona; it is not flesh and blood, it is my Father in heaven that has revealed this to thee.”

This verse is not John but Matthew 16:16.

In any case when you made your response to Lucretius you quoted his " faith is in some sense intrapersonal, a direct gift from God the Father Himself".

There is nothing here that directly suggests he meant hell is the fate of the yet ungifted.
Yours is a typical case of not seeing the unique tree because of the forest!

Anyways, why do you think sincere atheists are destined to hell?

As I say, if you sincerely don’t believe or want heaven or an afterlife its likely you will get what you want. That is your “heaven” so God would be a meany not to give you what you wanted.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

No, we are informed about men through our common senses.

As we are informed about God through our common sense if we have any.

 

[STT]

OK, you really meant post #52.
Is english a second language for you?
I do not recall Lucretius quoting either the Jn 3:16 verse nor the Jn 3:15 verse before it.

Lucretius actually quoted “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. … Blessed art thou, Simon son of Jona; it is not flesh and blood, it is my Father in heaven that has revealed this to thee.”

This verse is not John but Matthew 16:16.

In any case when you made your response to Lucretius you quoted his " faith is in some sense intrapersonal, a direct gift from God the Father Himself".

There is nothing here that directly suggests he meant hell is the fate of the yet ungifted.
Yours is a typical case of not seeing the unique tree because of the forest!

Anyways, why do you think sincere atheists are destined to hell?

As I say, if you sincerely don’t believe or want heaven or an afterlife its likely you will get what you want. That is your “heaven” so God would be a meany not to give you what you wanted.

I don’t think that sincere atheist should to go to hell. That is part of your teaching as it is reflected in the quoted verse: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish…”. So do you believe that sincere atheist should go to Hell?

 

[STT]

As we are informed about God through our common sense if we have any.

That is not true. All people would agree in existence of God if your statement was correct.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

I don’t think that sincere atheist should to go to hell. That is part of your teaching as it is reflected in the quoted verse: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish…”. So do you believe that sincere atheist should go to Hell?

S.T may I sincerely ask if you suffer a little from HF autism?
You seem to consistently misengage with real individuals because you identify them as operating from your preconceived stereotypes of them and the teachings of the religion they may belong to .

If you wish to come to a better understanding of Christianity, which I presume is why you are on CAF, then I am happy to assist you on a journey within your own self/take.
But I don’t feel any need to explain or justify my own personal views to your somewhat jaundiced understandings as that is just a waste of my time.
If you have come here to somehow prove Christians are mistaken you need to grow up a little and maybe get a life.

 

[STT]

S.T may I sincerely ask if you suffer a little from HF autism?

I don’t think so.

You seem to consistently misengage with real individuals because you identify them as operating from your preconceived stereotypes of them and the teachings of the religion they may belong to .

This is off topic. We are not here to talk or judge about people character.

Do you agree with the verse I quoted? Why do you skip my question?

 

[Blue_Horizon]

I don’t think so.

This is off topic. We are not here to talk or judge about people character.

Do you agree with the verse I quoted? Why do you skip my question?

If you want to grow as a person, which is all about character, then you are the one who needs to explore your own prejudices not us.
To do this you are the one who needs to answer the questions not us .

May I suggest your very strong tendency to answer questions with many more questions is not Socrates at all. It is perhaps a defence mechanism on your part and a fear of allowing others to assist you in exploring your own prejudices.

Of course you will intellectually disagree…which is why your “discussion” has just died out not just with me but others here who also can see through your pretence of openess which you cannot yet see in yourself.

All religion starts at Delphi, Know Thyself.

 

[STT]

If you want to grow as a person, which is all about character, then you are the one who needs to explore your own prejudices not us.
To do this you are the one who needs to answer the questions not us .

May I suggest your very strong tendency to answer questions with many more questions is not Socrates at all. It is perhaps a defence mechanism on your part and a fear of allowing others to assist you in exploring your own prejudices.

Of course you will intellectually disagree…which is why your “discussion” has just died out not just with me but others here who also can see through your pretence of openess which you cannot yet see in yourself.

All religion starts at Delphi, Know Thyself.

You as a Catholic should have enough back up to answer my questions when you engage into a discussion.

You refuse to answer my questions so I provide you a clear verse from Bible which indicates that those who believe in Jesus should not perish and have everlasting life… (supposedly in Heaven). So I think I answer your first question.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

That is not true. All people would agree in existence of God if your statement was correct.

Not true at all. Many people have no one iota of common sense.

If you are old enough, you would have known this long ago.

 

[ericc]

I don’t think that sincere atheist should to go to hell. That is part of your teaching as it is reflected in the quoted verse: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish…”. So do you believe that sincere atheist should go to Hell?

Isn’t this a contradiction? If one believe(among other things) in Him (Him being God), one should not perished. But an atheist is one who doesn’t believe in God. A sincere atheist then is one who sincerely believe there is no God. Based upon this verse singly, a sincere atheist may be a candidate for hell isn’t it? The deciding factor is the belief/disbelief and not the level of sincerity.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

You as a Catholic should have enough back up to answer my questions when you engage into a discussion.

You refuse to answer my questions so I provide you a clear verse from Bible which indicates that those who believe in Jesus should not perish and have everlasting life… (supposedly in Heaven). So I think I answer your first question.

D’oh boy. I likely had gained my equivalent of a Masters degree in theology before you were born. I cannot be bothered to turn my “backup” “battle-ship” in your direction either to assist or outgun re your gross misinterpretations of both Catholicism and Scripture .

And this because your tone suggests you are here to teach the ignorant rather than learn mutually together.

If you “perish” in ignorance it will be by your own hand not God’s .
I won’t be conversing further with you sorry.

BTW it should be clear already what my response is to your question.

 

[STT]

Isn’t this a contradiction? If one believe(among other things) in Him (Him being God), one should not perished. But an atheist is one who doesn’t believe in God. A sincere atheist then is one who sincerely believe there is no God. Based upon this verse singly, a sincere atheist may be a candidate for hell isn’t it? The deciding factor is the belief/disbelief and not the level of sincerity.

Yes, according to the verse one who does not believe in God should to Hell and vise verse. What is the contradiction?

 

[STT]

D’oh boy. I likely had gained my equivalent of a Masters degree in theology before you were born. I cannot be bothered to turn my “backup” “battle-ship” in your direction either to assist or outgun re your gross misinterpretations of both Catholicism and Scripture .

And this because your tone suggests you are here to teach the ignorant rather than learn mutually together.

I am here for mutual discussion.

If you “perish” in ignorance it will be by your own hand not God’s .
I won’t be conversing further with you sorry.

BTW it should be clear already what my response is to your question.

Whatever.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Sincerity of course does not excuse anyone’s sins.

We know how sincere the devil is about destroying us all.