Religious Habit for Lay Person

[plato3]

Franciscan Third Order (seculars) have the option to be buried in a special burial habit.

 

[Hopemercy]

There seems reading this to be so little depth of understanding re the Holy Habit of Religion. Maybe because there is the male view strongly expressed here!!!

We women Monastics have a different take on this maybe.

Every part of the Habit has a meaning that relates to our life as Nuns. It is far, far more than a reminder; it is a part of our Monastic life, our Consecration. The Veil is our wee chapel.

It is our sole dress; we sleep in a habit even.

And for us yes it is a part of our Vows and thus of our “holiness”; our identity and our vulnerability.

And to see third orders etc wearing a form of habit?

Ay me!

There is one Francisan . sorry two - associations of the faithful, that have a strict dress code; and they stipulate that this must never look like a religious habit, because they are not religious but lay folk.

It makes them think carefully re their actions in public, which is as it should be.

And that is the right approach.

One is the Confraternity of pentitents; the other escapes me just now.

Lay folk have a huge role to play; and there are so many simple ways to remind and strengthen without a dress way.

We have lost so much of the depth and meaning in religious life. The mysticism and symbolism.

So we need to keep the habit pure and strong.

 

[JReducation]

There seems reading this to be so little depth of understanding re the Holy Habit of Religion. Maybe because there is the male view strongly expressed here!!!

We women Monastics have a different take on this maybe.

And to see third orders etc wearing a form of habit?

Ay me!

There is one Francisan . sorry two - associations of the faithful, that have a strict dress code; and they stipulate that this must never look like a religious habit, because they are not religious but lay folk.

It makes them think carefully re their actions in public, which is as it should be.

And that is the right approach.

One is the Confraternity of pentitents; the other escapes me just now.

Lay folk have a huge role to play; and there are so many simple ways to remind and strengthen without a dress way.

We have lost so much of the depth and meaning in religious life. The mysticism and symbolism.

So we need to keep the habit pure and strong.

The reason that the Confraternity of St. Francis is not allowed a habit or any appearance of a habit is because they are not an order nor part of the Franciscan family.

The Secular Francisans are as much as Order as are the Friars Minor and Poor Clares. St. Francis gave them a rule, a constitution and a habit. It was approved by a papal bull by Pope Honorius, repeated by Pope Nicholas IV, Leon XIII, Pius X, Pius XII, Paul VI and Benedict XVI.

They are not a lay order. They are a secular order. There is a big difference. All orders of women religious are lay. Lay is someone who is not ordained to the deaconate. A deacon is not lay, he is a cleric.

A secular is a man or woman who makes either private vows or a public profession outside of the structure of the religious life, but nonetheless the profession is a liturgical action, a perpetual commitment that changes the identity of the person who makes the profession, in this case they become truly Franciscans, Dominicans or Carmelites. However, the secular Franciscans are the only secular order that has its own rule, superior general elected at a general chapter, their own general council, their own constitution approved by a papal bull and subjec to the Sacred Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life. They come uner institutes of consecrated life.

They are not a branch of either the friars or the nuns. They are canonically autonomous and their profession is canonically approved by the Church and binding until death, just like nuns, sisters and brothers. They are also an Institute of Pontifical Right. No bishop can interfere with their internal affairs. In addition they cannot exist in any diocese unless they are canonically erected by a joint agreement between the Sacred Congregation for Institutes of Consecratede Life, the local bishop and their major superior, which may never be a friar, nun or sister. It must always be one of their own, elected for three years, like any othe superior.

The Secular Orders are not lay. The Friars Minor and the Poor Clares are lay. They are canonically lay orders. The friar are meant to be predominantly non-clerical brothers and the nuns are are lay women in solemn vows. The Secular Orders have always been separated from the friars and the nuns by two very interesting attributes.

1. They are secular. Therefore, they do not live a conventual lfie. But they may choose to do so, if they wish. That’s how the many Third Order religious were founded, beginning with the TOR friars in 1228.
2. They are secular and not lay, because they were founded to include deacons, priests, bishops and popes. These are mentioned in their rule. Where as the priesthood is not mentioned in the rules of either the Friars Minor (Franciscan Friars) or the Poor Clares.

It begs the question from those of us who are religious and want to keep our habit just for us, what gives us that right? Our Secular Franciscan brothers and sisters were founded at the same time as us, with the same structures as our own, except for conventual life. Ouur holy Father Francis even gave them a habit. If they choose not to wear it and their chapter agrees, it is an itnernal matter. It is not a matter for the laity or religious of other orders to comment, approve or disapprove., anymore than we tolerate interference from those outside of our oiwn orders.

The truth is that in the Constitutions of 2000 the Secular Franciscans simplified the habit to a Tau, for the younger fraternities. The older fraternities who had worn the traditional habit of penance for more than 100 years could not be touched. Canon law does not allow you to chagne something gthat is over 100 years old and that is protected by a papal bull. When they went to John Paul II to abbrogagte the habit, he refused to lift the bull. In 2008 they approached Pope Benedict XVI and he refused to lift the bull. So those Secular Franciscans who belong to communties that have worn the habit for more than 100 years, can continue to do so.

In fact, the Franciscans of the Immaculate have returned the habit to the Secular Franciscans who follow their spirituality and it has received the approval of the Holy Father and a papl bull so that it can not be touched by anyone but another pope. It was not that long that tye were erected by a papl bull. But I can’t recall the date. I know that it can’t be more than 10 years.

I know these things and canons about the Secular Franciscans because my religious order was founded by three Secular Franciscans and two Capuchins who wanted to live the life the Brothers and Sisters of Penance (the Secular Franciscan Order) under the title of Francisan Brothers of Peace. Today we’re expanding again into a new branch of the order, Franciscan Brothers of Life. Each day the Holy Spirit gives new gifts to the Church, taking away the habit is not one of them.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

With all due respect sister, I believe that our holy Father Francis would have a problem with some of the wording in your posts below. Allow me to fraternally help reword it so that it is consistent with what out Father woudl say. I’m assuming that you’re Franciscan, since you mentioned the Francisn Brothers and Sisters of Penance. They are not well know outside of Franciscan circles. If you’re not Franciscan, I would ask you to consider what Francis would sya about his secular sons and daughters, out of respect for him.

to be continued . . .

 

[JReducation]

cont

**And for us yes it is a part of our Vows and thus of our “holiness”; our identity and our vulnerability. **

When our Father Francis gave the seculars a habit it was part of their profession to live the Rule of theiir order, just as your habit and mine is part of our profession. It was part of their identity. In fact, he went as far as to have a design created that combined the characteristisc of the friars’ habit and that of the Poor Clares, such as a tunic, chord and veil if you were female. But it was grey and the males had no cowl. 1400s it was changed to brown. The point is that he intended to give them a way of life that is truly holy and diffferent from that of the laity in the pews. Read their rule and constitutions. Read the outcome their general chapter and the letters from their superior general and from the Holy See to them. They share the same call to holiness, to identity with a religious family and vulnerability as you do.

And to see **third orders **

 

[JReducation]

conclusion

Lay folk have a huge role to play; and there are so many **simple ways to remind and strengthen **without a dress way.

Our holy Father never called the laity to remember anything or to strengthen anything. Most of all he never called them to do anything simple. He called them to live a penitential life:

1. Do not go to parties.
2. Do not bear arms or allow yourselfs to be drafted. Prefer arrest over military service.
3. Pray the Liturgy of the Hours.
4. Take care of the poor and orphans.
5. Turn your homes into places of true penance.
6. Give your excess to the poor.
7. If you are single, go live among the poor.
8. Fast two lents a year.
9. Fast and abstain on Wed and Fri.
10. Do not pledge allegiance to the flag of any nation.
11. Use your money to take care of the needs of family, Church and the poor, but do not store money.
12. Wives be submissive to their husbands and husbands be attentive to their wives, sond like Paul.
13. Life in fraternity with other Secular Franciscans, including clerics…
14. Aside from your private investment in you local apostolate, you must be part of a fraterntyh apostolate.
15. Meet with your brothers and sisters to study your life, to pray, to do penance, to serve the needs of the local bishop, to serve the poor.
16. Under any circumstances may you disagree with anyone in public nor may youi ever be angree with anyone.
17. You must obey the pope, the local bishop, me Brother Francis and my canonically elected successors without murmurring, without doubt, without fear, and without desire to do your own will.

I don’t see anything very simple in this lifestyle. We the religious have done the Secular Franciscans a great harm by trying to simplify their lives. We have done a great harm to most of the laity and for this, I am shamed and invite you Sisters to be shamed with me. We are condescending toward the laity. We often think that they can do so many LITTLE THINGS for God, as if they were incapable of doing great things for God. Yet, we see the great monastic, Therese of Liseaux do little things for God.

Let us not impose on the laity, what St. Francis did not want for his sons and daugthers. Let us demand of them what our Father demanded: penance, suffering, conversion, fidelity, prayer, peacemaking, perfect charity, detachment from the material world, obedience to the Church, obedience to their superiors, fidelity to the Gospel, fasting, abstinence and when possible: celibacy.

We have lost so much of the depth and meaning in religious life. The mysticism and symbolism.

So we need to **keep the habit pure and strong./**QUOTE]

Our holy Father Francis adopted a very simple form of dress not to keep him and his cildren pure and strong. He adopted it because we were poor. Our poverty is our greatest link with each other. Unless we are truly poor, we will have a very difficult time building brotherhood or sisterhood where we depend on and trust each other as the first brothers and sisters did. Through this relationship of trust they built up a chaste family that replaced the biological families that they had left as a peace offering for Christ at the foot of the cross.

In conclusion, our habits have no need of purity and strength. They shoud remind us that we do. They remind us that we need to get back to the business of living the Gospel with pure love and strong wills. This was the legacy that our holy Father Francis left inside the Church to all of his sons and daughters. Let us make the habit a point of unity, not separation. That’s not what St. Francis saw in the habit. He was very practical. It was the only thing that he needed, because everything else was provided for by the Gospl, by the Church, by the brotherhood, by grace and penance. So in the end, the habit was all that was left of human need Everything else had been provided for. What was that wich was left?

That was sin. The Franciscan habit is essentially a simble of sin. It is a constant reminder that I am a sinner and must convert.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Hopemercy]

Brother!

You are losing the spirit in the nit picking of legalism here.

NO ONE has a RIGHT; it is all grace.

And there is a huge difference between a Third Order and a Monastic Order. You cannot mention the Poor Clares in the same breath as the Secular Franciscans.

And this is why so much has been lost of mysticism and depth of spirituality in religious life.

Francis would spin in his grave at your post; this was not how he founded the Third Order.

My “beef” is about folk who wear a habit at Church etc, who have no real idea of what it means; it then becomes a status symbol. That is why I mentioned the other groups; they have respect for true religious. Who live the life 24/7.

True, this is prevalent more among breakaway groups now. But it makes me very hot under the wimple. Because it dilutes and defrauds what the Church needs so much.

Here in Ireland, almost no order wears the habit; they are afraid to now. We do. Full Monastic dress always

We need Nuns.

But then your words are so male!!! The local Franciscan Friars only wear their habits when on duty and it is such a loss to all.

 

[Hopemercy]

May I return, please to your original query? Thank you.

No, in a word. …

It will not help, simply. Because it will not be truth and will be pre-empting God.

Humility is the key to religious life. We drink it daily.

By all means wear something that will act as a reminder. Something unobtrusive because this truly is between you and God at this stage and the less you speak of it to others the more God can speak to you.

Where you are now is where you are meant to be. Slow is very good.

I have here a large fish shaped bead which I take in my hand when I need to focus. Maybe simply for you a rosary. Or a cross. The bead works for me because it is hard and firm and smooth. Tactile.

Try it? See what difference it can make? it is your attitude that matters here.

Blessings from Ireland

Soooo…
I have been wanting to do like a few day (maybe a week) of like constant meditation on my vocation, though I am VERY easily distracted. Is it possible for me to like take on a religious habit as a reminder of what I am doing, as well as like a reminder for me to live a Christian life. You know?
I know I ask weird questions

 

[JReducation]

Brother!

And there is a huge difference between a Third Order and a Monastic Order. You cannot mention the Poor Clares in the same breath as the Secular Franciscans.

Sister, there is a big difference between a mendicant order and a monastic order too. But our Holy Father loved us equally, the Poor Clares and the Friars.

The difference is is expression of the Franciscan life, not in holiness and much less in rights. We all have a right to live according to the rule and spirit of our holy Father Francis. We cannot deny any of our Franciscan brothers and sisters the right to live that spirit as he founded it from the beginning and as he viewed it from the beginning.

To say that one cannot mention the Poor Clares in the same breath as the Secular Franciscans can demean or reduce one or the other. This was not the vision of oiur founders. For centuries the three orders have been cooperative, fraternal and always accepting of our very special place in the Franciscan familiy, even when it came to habits.

Let those Secular Franciscan Brothers and Sisters who have traditionally worn the habit of their order, continue to do so. The Church gives them this right. Their General Chapter gave them this right. You as a Poor Clare and I as a Friar, cannot trump the voice of the Church, because it is the voice of Christ. We cannot trump the voice of the General Chapter of the Secular Order, because it is the voice of our Father, Francis.

This is not nit-picking. This is preserving our family heritage. We are three orders, four obediences, and one family. We have rights and duties in that family. For the Secular Franciscans, their duty is not to live their Franciscan vocation in silence, but to live it very publicly. After all they make a very public profession equivalent to yours and mine. Ask the Ministers General and the Vicars who spoke at the last General Chapter of the Secular Order.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

Here is an example of the Fraternity that exists between the orders of St. Francis. It goes much deeper than habits: moanstic, mendicant or secular. It goes to the core, brotherhood between us through our common link, St. Francis. In this brotherhood there is a statement of equality which was so important to our holy Father Francis, because the relgiouis life is to be lived in the msytery of the Trinity, where all three persons are different, but equal.

In this copy that I’m posting a very important event is taking place. The decree approving the revision of the Rule of the Secular Franciscans was written by the Pope Paul VI. But there was a prevailing attitude among the friars and the Poor Clares that the Secular Franciscans were just a pius society. As a result of the blind-mindset, they kept the decree that the Pope wrote for the Secular Order. They filed it away in the archvies of the friars, because it was too special to trust the Secular Franciscans with its care, even though Paul VI wrote it for them and revised the rule using their writings and contibutions. We friars and Poor Clares were advisors, but Paul VI banned us from voting on the Rule.

To make long story short. The Secular Franciscans wanted the original letter by Pope Paul VI, written to them and the original copy of the rule, revised for them. They wanted it in their posession. They wrote several letters ot the effect. The friars who were stroring this document for safe-keeping. Finally the friars realized that this document does not belong to us. So our Minister General was ordered by our chapter to deliver the document to the Mininster General of the Secular Franciscans, Sister Encarnacion del Pozo. She is not a nun, for those who may be wondering. But Secular Franciscans may use the titles Bro or Sr. Their official name is the Secular Order of the Brothers and Sisters of Penance. The Third Order friars, sisters and cloistered nuns are the Third Order Regular of the Brothers and Sisters of Penance.

I’m going to follow the next post with a copy of the talk that he gives and highlight some statemtns thtat he makes. The statements are important for us to realize that our unity as a family, be it Franciscan or the universal Church is the most important part of our life. In our unity, we find Christ, who is the search of oiur lives. We arrive at that conclusoin again. Habits are mean to remind us of our journey toward holiness.

“Seraphicus Patriarchus” original under the care of the OFS.
**Dearest Sister Encarnaciòn Del Pozo, **

Notice that her proper title is Sister, as is yours and as mine is Brother or Friar.

**

May the Lord give you Peace!

It is with great joy that we can finally say that the search has borne fruit, and we can return the original of the Apostolic Letter Seraphicus Patriarcha, which the venerated Pope Paul VI gave to the Secular Franciscan Order. We are well aware of what fundamental importance it is for the life of the Secular Order.

Therefore, it is with a profound feeling of communion** that we place it in your hands after having taken care of it for all these years, also as a sign of our link in Francis, who never stops inviting us to be poor and simple in the world, each one in our own calling, but all called to recognize in Christ, the Love of the Father, the Saving Word, the Beauty of Life in the Spirit.

Observe that the friar makes mention of two points. That there is a communion between the Friars Minor and the Secular Franciscans. He also mentions that there is a link in Francis. He does not seem to have any trouble mentioning the Franciscan Friars in the same sentence with the Secular Franciscan Order. So why should a daughter of St. Francis have such great difficulty mentioning the Poor Clares in the same sentence as the Secular Franciscans?

Where is the proof that our Father Francis expected less of them, loved them less or thought of them as inferior in any way. He founded three orders: one mendicant, one monastic and one secular. But all three form the same family and they all have the same father. Most important all three follow the same ideal, the live the Gospel in the manner that St. Francis lived it. We are different in expressions, not in rights. If you said that we have different duties, you are absolutely right. The duties of each of our orders and each obedience are different.

Observe how he closes the letter with the title Sister, again.

**Dearest Sister, as we feel ourselves more and more in communion in our lives, we thank each brother and sister in the Secular Franciscan Order for the prayer and support that each one has offered to us, the friars. Thank you and may the Lord gaze on you in blessing, show you his mercy and guide your footsteps in the Good. **

Notice how he ends his letter, with fraternal affection. He does not push away the Minister General of the Secular Franciscans. Instead, he professes the affection that every Franciscan must feel for another Franciscan.

** With true fraternal affection,

Fra Mauro Jöhri** ****

It’s interesting here to see how he closes his letter by referring to himself as Brother (Fra). He never tells you if he’s ordained or lay. Nor will he. We are moving away from that distinction between us friars and between us and there rest of the order. We are trying to recover the family that St. Francis founded.

By the say Sister, most friars in the USA wear our habits 24/7 when the weather permits it. Some communities have a special habit for warmer climates.

We have to embrace our unity so that we can be a model to others of unity in humility.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Hopemercy]

Drowning in words here and impossible to read your… words fail.

And no you may NOT rewrite anything I wrote to concur with your ideas; that shows your narrowness and intolerance so clearly. REALLY!

You are in the US; we are thankfully in Ireland where we do things very differently - again thankfully.

And you have little idea re Monastics either, and sadly not the humility to see that you do not.

And all this tirade has nothing to do with ther origianl thread; you hijacked it which is such bad manners

Over and OUT… Bless your loud journey, and no I do no agree with what you say. And will nou be shouted down either…

There is no Franciscan in you! I wish…

The habit is for full time monastics. PERIOD; about whom you have no idea.

Blessings and peace.

 

[redrosetea]

Drowning in words here and impossible to read your… words fail.

And no you may NOT rewrite anything I wrote to concur with your ideas; that shows your narrowness and intolerance so clearly. REALLY!

You are in the US; we are thankfully in Ireland where we do things very differently - again thankfully.

And you have little idea re Monastics either, and sadly not the humility to see that you do not.

And all this tirade has nothing to do with ther origianl thread; you hijacked it which is such bad manners

Over and OUT… Bless your loud journey, and no I do no agree with what you say. And will nou be shouted down either…

There is no Franciscan in you! I wish…

The habit is for full time monastics. PERIOD; about whom you have no idea.

Blessings and peace.

How sad to say things like this to BR JR who is such a respected and loving Br…If anyone has done as much good on the face of this earth as JR has, the world would be a very holy place

I don’t think a true Franciscan would post in such an angry and uncharitable manner

I hope your day gets better

JR comes here from a sick bed to try to counsel and guide us, and he does it with charity

He would never had answered you in the manner you have just posted

I am shocked and saddened to read this

I think you are forgetting St Francis was a male…your anger frightens me

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

How sad to say things like this to BR JR who is such a respected and loving Br…If anyone has done as much good on the face of this earth as JR has, the world would be a very holy place

I don’t think a true Franciscan would post in such an angry and uncharitable manner

I hope your day gets better

JR comes here from a sick bed to try to counsel and guide us, and he does it with charity

He would never had answered you in the manner you have just posted

I am shocked and saddened to read this

I think you are forgetting St Francis was a male…your anger frightens me

I have to agree with you on this.

The only uncharitable behavior I see is coming from Hopemercy.

Br JR is a well respected and knowledgable user here. Before you attack him, or anyone, here maybe you should spend some time just reading the posts and actually learning what is going on.

Seeing that what Br JR says is almost excatly what I have gotten from Secular Franciscians I know as well as from some Conventual Franciscians I was in the seminary with, I will take his word over Hopemercy’s.

I think there is a lack of humilty and an idea that vowed religious life is somehow better than secular life, at least that is what I get from reading the posts by Hopemercy.

 

[JReducation]

The issue here was very clear from the OP. Can a lay person wear a habit?

The response given from several sources is yes provided that the lay person meets one of the following criteria:

1. Be a member of a Secular Order that has a habit.

2 Be a member of a lay order that has a habit, such as Franciscan Friars, Poor Clares, Carmelite nuns, Dominican nuns, Christian Brothers and others. Lay orders are religious orders were never mean to become orders of priests. Therefore, Secular Orders can wear a habit if their constitution approves of it. Their constitution has Pontifical Rights and their wearing a habit takes nothing away from the rest of the men and women who wear a habit.

1. La people who become diocesan hermits may also wear a habit if it is prescribed in the rule that they bishop may have approved for them.
2. Secular Societies of Apostolic Life may also wear a habit as long as it is in their constitution and approved by the Holy See. They are not religious, monastic, mendicant, or canons regular. They are secular, but most who see them in their habits don’t now this.

Finally, if a lay person wants to wear a habit, he should join one of these groups, begin his own or get individual permission from the local bishops. But always begin with a spiritual director.

On the other hand to for a Franciscan to say that you cannot name the Poor Clares and the Secular Franciscans’ place in the order, mission in the Church and the right to wear a habit is very new and shocking to me We who were formed and today we form our novices to obey what is explicitly in the consultation of the Friars Minor where it says that the Friars (us) age to promote vocations to the Secular Order, to respect their autonomy as a true canonical order with the same rights and same canonical authority and succession as the Friars Minor and the Poor Clares. We must recognize that they are united to the Friars Minor and the Poor Clares through Franciscan Succession, since they can trace their founding to St. Francis, as we do. Since their order has its own rule constitution and autonomous government, it has the right suppress, regular or reissue the ancient habit that they received from Francis and the early friars (see the lives of Margaret of Cortrona and Elizabeth of Hungary).

Today’s liturgical law recognizes the profession Secular Carmelites, Secular Franciscans and Lay Donicans, as liturgically equal to that of the friars and the enclosed nuns:

1. They are public.
2. They are received the Church.
3. They are received by their order
4. They are binding on unto death
5. They age built on the Gospel, the fonder of the religious family, the evangelical counsels and see to reach the perfection of charity that Perfecta Caritatis described in the Vatican II documents.

Given all the above that he Church, liturgy of profession and the autonomy grantd to the ordersw by canon law, and thair direct connection to the Holy Father who is teir protector, the histroy of the order has to teach us, to say that the secular orders must remain autonomous and only the monastic orders can wear a habit is not inconsistent with the above.

To say that they cannot be mentioned in the same sentence as their monastic sisters in the religious family can create the impression of an elitism in religious families where there are three forms of life under one spirit and fonder, such as is the case among: Franciscans, Dominicans and Carmelites.

Returning to the original question, a lay person can wear a habit if it approved by a spiritual director or if he or she belongs to an association of the lay faithful that wears a habit. Some of these associations age lay orders, as are all orders of nuns. They are all lay. Canonically, they can’t be other, because they are not deacon. On the reasons for and against wearing a habit the individual and the common good must be weighed with the assistance of an experienced spiritual guide…

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Hopemercy]

May I say here these few things? Thank you.

I am in Ireland; my comment re “male” was not and is not in any way an insult; simply fact and said with an admiring smile.

It is the kind of thing we say here all the time; “Oh well he is a MAN!” and we chuckle.
Men and women together.

Because there is a difference between male and female, the way we think, the way we see things, the way we write.

It was actually a compliment to the writer.

Iam told now that this is not so in the US; and you are the poorer for it there.

So that was in no way “sexist”

Not here anyways and thus not in my reply or mind.

It seems that these cultural differences make it impossible for me to remain on Catholic Answers if things like this are going to be misread and slated like this?

Really!!

There was and is absolutley no anger in me; now or then. That is in your mind not mine. I was amazed to read that reply, so wrong is it.

And by the way, I am not Franciscan; another huge assumption.

Forty years professed and a Monastic Historian gives a wide experience and awaremess; and if you read the OP you will see my concern.
And I see here that there is no full perception of Monasticism; that does not surprise me as a Historian; but it saddens as it detracts and reduces

We are not all the same; unity at the cost of individuality? is the US way.

That is what Vatican 2 aimed at and it almost destroyed religious life,

That the habit be kept sacred is all.

Because that is not happening these days.

For what it is worth, I am also seriously disabled and in bed around 20 hours each day and spend my time in prayer and in work of hands to sell so that we can feed the needy in many lands

Three weeks ago we were flooded out of our House; we are now so high up in the mountains that there is only a poor and erratic internet signal; I run 4 web sites and we counsel so many here.

we had to move from three inches of water and take what acommodation we could.

There is no time or energy for what is not essential; we are in such hard times here in Ireland.

And the Op was humble enough to ask and needed a simple reply; which I did giv because I know how much it matters to people to feel nearer to God.

It just needed a reasurance that there were ways to feel nearer in prayer without encroaching on religious

Many feel that what a person wears at home is entirely up to them

If you want to speak against me, that is fine. But I will nto be here to read this.

I was a stranger among you… Loving you but leaving you… Please remove my details from the list? Thank you; it has been an interesting encounter but not one to be extended. My place is with the needy on the streets.

Blessings and peace to all here…

Blessings and peace

 

[redrosetea]

I think you need to reread what you posted…Blaming the vctims for your own actions is not very attractive behavior

The list of snide remarks grows every time you post

 

[Patrick_Eastin]

I am very disappointed to have to do this. Thread closed. Thanks to all who participated.