Religious Leaders Call for Civil Disobedience if Laws Don’t Respect Faith

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I will fully support this move. I hope that every christian will have the courage to peacefully and charitabley protest the immorallity of secular society and government.
 
Catholic Charities of Boston stopped adoption services because of a state law, and would instead rather not allow children to be adopted by homosexual couples…???

I’m sorry, and may God have mercy on me for saying this, but that’s idiotic. The church would rather see the children continue to hurt emotionally due to the insecurity of not being in a loving home, as opposed to allowing a loving homosexual couple adopt them and give them a good home full of love and security? How the HELL is it any better to allow a straight couple to adopt the children and then hurt them later through divorce? Gay couples don’t own the patent to child abuse any more so than straight couples do. In fact, I read a heck of a lot more stories about abuse at the hands of so-called “loving straight parents” who adopt children or provide foster homes than I do any stories pertaining to abuse at the hands of a gay couple. I truly don’t believe the church has the best interest of children in mind here. I guess it’s okay to allow some perverted priests to abuse them, and then cover it up? I wonder why I’m interested in becoming Catholic.
 
onthenarrowpath said:
I’m sorry, and may God have mercy on me for saying this, but that’s idiotic. The church would rather see the children continue to hurt emotionally due to the insecurity of not being in a loving home, as opposed to allowing a loving homosexual couple adopt them and give them a good home full of love and security?
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No. The Church would rather be allowed to continue adoptions according to God’s laws. If forced to do something contrary to God’s laws, then the Church has to stop activities. We are not allowed to do evil as a means to an good end. The government is causing the harm to children by forcing the Catholic Church out of adoption.
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onthenarrowpath:
How the HELL is it any better to allow a straight couple to adopt the children and then hurt them later through divorce? Gay couples don’t own the patent to child abuse any more so than straight couples do. In fact, I read a heck of a lot more stories about abuse at the hands of so-called “loving straight parents” who adopt children or provide foster homes than I do any stories pertaining to abuse at the hands of a gay couple.
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This is what would be considered a straw man argument. The Church has not claimed that gay couples “own the patent to child abuse.”
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onthenarrowpath:
I truly don’t believe the church has the best interest of children in mind here. I guess it’s okay to allow some perverted priests to abuse them, and then cover it up? And before anyone says “those priests were gay”, that is a cop out. The truth is, gay or straight, they were pedophiles. But gays don’t hold the patent to that sin either.
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Again, another straw man argument. The Church does not claim that gays are pedophiles. She has also not said that what the priests involved in sexual abuse was “okay.”
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onthenarrowpath:
I wonder why I’m interested in becoming Catholic.
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Because the Holy Spirit is drawing you to His True Church.
 
No. The church would rather allow children to be hurt emotionally instead of allowing them to be placed in loving homes where they can find security. THAT should be the ultimate aim…what is good for the child. Or is the destruction of the security of a child’s home at the hands of parents who divorce, and possible even abuse the child, somehow less evil than allowing a child to be put in a gay couple’s home. Sorry…not going to convince me on this one.

The church covered up the priest abuse for years before being exposed. How does that not translate into it being “okay”? Read the following story…this guy was my best friend in high school:

bishop-accountability.org/news/2005_07_20_Flannery_OneMans.htm

And as far as being drawn by the Holy Spirit to His true church…how does that work when you’re dealing with the Eastern Orthodox, who likewise claim to be the true church? I’m quite confident that the Holy Spirit is with me along the path I walk.
 
onthenarrowpath said:
No. The church would rather allow children to be hurt emotionally instead of allowing them to be placed in loving homes where they can find security. THAT should be the ultimate aim…what is good for the child.

The church covered up the priest abuse for years before being exposed. How does that not translate into it being “okay”? Read the following story…this guy was my best friend in high school:

bishop-accountability.org/news/2005_07_20_Flannery_OneMans.htm

And as far as being drawn by the Holy Spirit to His true church…how does that work when you’re dealing with the Eastern Orthodox, who likewise claim to be the true church?
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Are you truly interested in becoming Catholic? I’m starting to doubt the veracity of your statement. Your attacks on the Church are the normal, everyday attacks from people who hate the Church, not someone who is interested in becoming Catholic.
 
Huh, I will just add this. What about the whole doing the lesser of two evils. I’ve always been told that when it came to politics. So why can’t it apply here. First threats and placing children in the line of fire. That, is by the no way catholic, in any way you look at it. The people who get hurt will be the children.

Not saying anything about the church, I’m Catholic myself, I just have issues when a childs future is used as ammo.
 
rlg94086 said:
Are you truly interested in becoming Catholic? I’m starting to doubt the veracity of your statement. Your attacks on the Church are the normal, everyday attacks from people who hate the Church, not someone who is interested in becoming Catholic.
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Classic. I express some discontent with certain things about the Catholic church, and suddenly I hate it and I’m attacking it. Amazing how Catholics do that. I struggle with certain areas of the RCC, yes, but that does not mean I’m anti-Catholic and attacking the church.

Of course, apparently it’s okay for Catholics and other Christians to express the same kind of hatred toward anyone or anything they disagree with.

The reason I stated “I wonder why I want to become Catholic” is because I was frustrated at what I was reading. I don’t understand various RCC positions, and I wonder why I bother trying. It gets nauseating to read the attacks of the church against homosexuals when in fact the church really has no leg to stand on in attacking others. It only has its own interests at heart…not the best interest of the child.
 
onthenarrowpath said:
I struggle with certain areas of the RCC, yes, but that does not mean I’m anti-Catholic and attacking the church.
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Well, good. I am glad to hear that. 👍
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onthenarrowpath:
The reason I stated “I wonder why I want to become Catholic” is because I was frustrated at what I was reading. I don’t understand various RCC positions, and I wonder why I bother trying. It gets nauseating to read the attacks of the church against homosexuals when in fact the church really has no leg to stand on in attacking others.
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The Church doesn’t “attack” homosexuals. She is doing her best to lead them to the Truth and Christ’s call to all of us for chastity. And, yes, the priests who abused their positions by sexually abusing minors are also called to chastity. And, yes, some bishops did not handle that situation properly.
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onthenarrowpath:
It only has its own interests at heart…not the best interest of the child. And forgive me, but that was apparent when the country learned of the priest abuse scandal, but the heirarchy chose to gloss over it instead.
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It hasn’t been glossed over. It is being dealt with. However, the “country” did overstate the “crisis” and failed to recognize that the percentages were the same in other institutions. It doesn’t excuse the priests, but it does indict the media and the knee-jerk anti-Catholic acceptance of their bias by many people.
 
Wow, what an effective diversion. I haven’t read it yet, but this Manhattan Declaration sounds right on. We cannot participate in evil. We cannot do evil in hopes that good might result. Yeah, sometimes that makes us look bad when it’s spinned against us, but we’re the ones who emerge undefiled when we refuse to play the world’s game.

I don’t know if 24’s Jack Bauer is a symptom or a cause of America’s moral backwardness. The terrorists say “murder this innocent man and we’ll refrain from murdering many more” and Bauer complies. Sure he weeps later…but he made the wrong decision. Any evil that evil men do is THEIR WORK, not ours if we refuse to accede to their wishes.

The lawmakers who legally cut the Catholic Church out of the ministry of adoptions did a grave evil. Because we prize virtue over expedience, we’ll find another way to uplift the people there in crisis pregnancy situations, mark my words.
 
Of course, apparently it’s okay for Catholics and other Christians to express the same kind of hatred toward anyone or anything they disagree with.
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Please consider your own words of argument before casting this stone. The way you portray the situation is that, because Catholics are unwilling to participate in something intrinsically evil, you claim they are putting children at risk.

Would you care to explain how, now there there are NO Catholic adoption agencies preventing children from going to any home, how children are at an increased risk of something? The secular crowd got exactly what they wanted, which was for the Church to bow out of the adoption business without a fight.

You are also the one trying to turn the Church position into one of discrimination. It isn’t and never has been. It is not unsound psychology to place children into a home with heterosexual parents. When that happens, there is no pending divorce or problems of any kind lest the children will not be placed. I’m not sure how you are taking an event that happens years in the future and placing that at the feet of the adoption agency, except that it appears you are trying in some way to say there is no difference between a home with heterosexual parents and one with homosexual parents, and using divorce and/or situations of abuse as a balancing criteria.

That isn’t how these matters are considered, and in fact shows a woeful ignorance of Catholic Church position as regards the family. There is teaching on this which you can read with a simple web search: “Humanae Vitae.” I think it might shed some light for you to go read that document and try to understand the position before condemning it based on a perception that the Church is out to endanger children just to dis homosexuals and keep the faith intact
 
How did we get onto the gay adoption , priest abuse thang? 🤷
Are we discussing the need to follow church teachings or what?
 
fcpilot said:
How did we get onto the gay adoption , priest abuse thang? 🤷
Are we discussing the need to follow church teachings or what?
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The “gay adoption thang” was mentioned in the article:
Unveiling the declaration Friday, Wuerl appeared at a news conference in the District of Columbia even as the church was considering a city-proposed compromise on its same-sex marriage measure.
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He and other church officials say the bill would require faith-based groups like Catholic Charities to extend benefits to married same-sex partners, thus forcing Christians to abandon their religious liberty. On Friday, Catholic Charities of Boston halted adoption services rather than comply with state law and allow children to be adopted by homosexual couples.
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The “priest abuse thang” was added by a disgruntled poster.
 
Don’t mind RLG, he’s just blunt. At least you always know where he stands…

Narrowpath, you’ve got it 100% backwards. The catholic church is not attempting to use kids as a weapon against gay activists. It is the gay activists who are using kids as a weapon against us. They KNOW that taking care of the weak has always been a characteristic of those of our faith. Thus, they are attempting to pass laws that FORCE us to act in violation of our religious principles.

Let’s be very clear. Boston Catholic Charities didn’t cease adoptions because the state somewhere else decided that gay couples could adopt. They stopped because outside manipulators attempted to FORCE Catholic Charities to act in violation of the religious principles upon which they were founded. It is NOT a mystery who the manipulator is here. It would be easy as pie for a “gay couple” to simply go to a secular agency for adoption services had Massachussets given the Church the exemption we sought. The fact that they pushed the issue to this point shows that THEY are more interested ‘gay rights’ than children’s wellbeing.

It’s a tribute to the effectiveness of the gay rights PR machine that anybody is fooled into seeing this one upside down.
 
manualman said:
Don’t mind RLG, he’s just blunt. At least you always know where he stands…

Narrowpath, you’ve got it 100% backwards. The catholic church is not attempting to use kids as a weapon against gay activists. It is the gay activists who are using kids as a weapon against us. They KNOW that taking care of the weak has always been a characteristic of those of our faith. Thus, they are attempting to pass laws that FORCE us to act in violation of our religious principles.

Let’s be very clear. Boston Catholic Charities didn’t cease adoptions because the state somewhere else decided that gay couples could adopt. They stopped because outside manipulators attempted to FORCE Catholic Charities to act in violation of the religious principles upon which they were founded. It is NOT a mystery who the manipulator is here. It would be easy as pie for a “gay couple” to simply go to a secular agency for adoption services had Massachussets given the Church the exemption we sought. The fact that they pushed the issue to this point shows that THEY are more interested ‘gay rights’ than children’s wellbeing.

It’s a tribute to the effectiveness of the gay rights PR machine that anybody is fooled into seeing this one upside down.
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👍👍
 
Let’s look at the adoption issues in bite-size pieces.
  1. Everyone agrees that child abuse, by anyone, is immoral and should be criminally prosecuted.
  2. Adoption by same-sex couples and the priest sexual-abuse are two different moral issues to which we apply different moral rules.
  3. The reason that the dioceses are closing down their adoption agencies is because it is immoral to teach a child that a same-sex couple are the equivalent to a married couple. Allowing such an adoption communicates that the adopting couple has the same moral status as a married heterosexual couple. In other words, it teaches the child a lie. It communicates the same lie to society.
  4. The Church does not want to see children suffer, homeless, orphans or abused. But she also does not want to see children lied to. Lying to prevent another evil is not justifiable in this case. Because this is a grave lie, not a little white lie like my mother is not home right now, when you don’t want to take a telephone call. Though I don’t advocate involving children in that either.
  5. The rules of moral law is that we may never choose the lesser of two evils. If both choices are evil, then we have to find another alternative. The moral law clearly says that we must choose the higher good. In the case of adoption by a same-sex couple or remaining in foster care until a suitable parent is found the adoption is a grave evil.
  6. Moral law is not dictated by our emotions. As sorry as we may feel for children who are waiting for adoption, we do not do them any favor by placing them in a setting where WE KNOW that they will be exposed to a moral lie. Same-sex couples are not married couples.
  7. If a single, celibate, gay person applies to adopt a child, there is no moral objection. The issue is not a prejudice against people with homosexual or lesbian orientation. The issue is about the truth about marriage. Marriage is between a man and a woman. The issue is not even about parenting. Single people can and raise very good families.
  8. The sexual abuse of a child, by anyone: clergy, teacher, family member and so forth is morally reprehensible and should never be covered up at the expense of the child. I can’t see any way of covering it up without a child being hurt. The conclusion is that you can’t cover it up. It’s wrong to do so.
  9. The fact that bishops thought that they were acting with discretion, when in reality they were protecting the perpetrator and not the victim is a very shameful and inappropriate response. However, that does not justify violating other moral rules. The correct course of action here is to fix this problem and make sure that it does not repeat itself.
  10. Finally, we should be glad that the bishops are finally taking a tougher line on serious moral issues in our society. They seem to be finding their voice and we should support them in this. If we jump in their faces when they show some authority, then we cannot complain down the road when they remain silent in the face of error and moral danger. We will have silences them.
Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Archbishop Donald Wuerl of Washington, D.C., just informed the city council that, rather than recognize homosexual marriages and provide gays the rights and benefits of married couples, he will shut down all Catholic social institutions and let the city take them over. Civil disobedience may be in order here.

humanevents.com/article.php?id=34595
 
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