Religious life and past sins

[fhansen]

I just feel like i’ll never be truly close to God like I’ve desired to for so long, and this thought discourages me extremely. I’m not doubting God’s forgiveness, but just how to go on from here. Thank you

We must understand that we’re all sinners; that’s why Jesus came and did what He did. He came and died for the sick-and we’re all sick truth be known. So He proved His love for us sinners, especially on the Cross. His whole mission was to reconcile fallen man with God in order that we may draw close to Him; that’s what God wants! Should we deny our sins; does that get us anywhere? All sin, all fail at living perfectly up to the standard. That’s why we need Him to begin with, so we may as well get beyond and see through that obstacle-only Satan would want it to remain one for us.

“If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.“ 1John 1:8-10

 

[littlesoul33]

I completely agree with you, but it often seems like I cannot be as close to God as if I had not sinned as much… maybe I should read about Saints like St Mary Magdalene more

 

[fhansen]

I completely agree with you, but it often seems like I cannot be as close to God as if I had not sinned as much… maybe I should read about Saints like St Mary Magdalene more

"The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more" Rom 5:20

I’m not promoting sin, but I am saying that in this world we’re lacking grace, lacking God, to begin with and sin made/makes grace that much more important-in order to confront and overcome that sin. I’ve experienced this directly, where, after sinning, I’d turn to God, expecting anger, or a cold shoulder at most, and He’d be there instead, and fill me with even more grace, more insight, more understanding than I had before. God is always there, on our side, and it’s only our pride combined with the enemy’s encouragement that draws us away from Him. Satan is called the “accuser” in the bible so I’m telling you that you’re listening to the wrong voice. Know and accept your need for God and for His healing, for His love, and you’ll end up knowing Him all the better.

"Draw near to God and He will draw near to you." James 4:8

"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3

Jesus’ very purpose in His humble, awful, beautiful act of sacrificial love is that we’ll stop, and turn towards that cross, and know His love and acceptance in spite of anything and everything that we think might separate us from Him. Rom 8:31-39 is a good read on this matter.

"We love Him because he first loved us." 1 John 4:19

 

[littlesoul33]

Thank you! Thats an encouraging thought. I read that St Mary Magdalene was closer to God after her repentance than before her sin…and perhaps she is even closer to God now in Heaven than she would have been!

 

[BarbTh]

St Teresa of Avila: " To reach something good it is very useful to have gone astray, and thus acquire experience."

St Thomas Aquinas was a saint and a great theologian from whom much of our theology is either based on or drawn from. Theology however is fluid - it grows in understanding and knowledge. But our theologians never have the last word as it were. That means that we are not called by obedience to believe what they have to say. We are called by obedience to believe what The Church as The Magisterium has to say on any given subject:
As to spousal relationship with and relating to Jesus as spouse, the Catholic Catechism states:

Para 796: "The Apostle speaks of the whole Church and of each of the faithful, members of his Body, as a bride “betrothed” to Christ the Lord

Those who embrace the consecrated life formally vow Poverty, Chastity and Obedience which is the way of perfection or the way to becoming one spirit with Jesus and are witnesses to the Universal Church of the way to become one spirit with Jesus.

While consecrated life in all its various forms is the state in life professing the evangelical counsels and a public witness to the way of perfection, not all in consecrated life live up to their profound vocation. It could be said that consecrated life is the state in life for Brides of Christ. Mysteriously in God’s Will however, not all are called by Jesus to consecrated life - while they are called, with all of us, to be espoused to Him and to the term known as Mystical Marriage, which most often possibly is not achieved until Heaven.
There is no holiness or following of Jesus without some level of poverty, chastity and obedience. Jesus is the Poor, Chaste and Obedient One.

You seem really stuck insofar as your personal vocational path in life is concerned. You might need sound spiritual direction re discerning what Jesus is asking from you. I might be very wrong! On the internet you are going to get probably all sorts of opinions, including mine, which can be a source of confusions. Even reading various books etc. can be a source of confusion - while a spiritual director will hone in on where you actually are at in reality and the way forward for you. He or she can facilitate the building of understanding and self confidence. In fact a good (wise, educated and holy) spiritual director is an invaluable treasure. Pope Benedict said that spiritual direction is recommended for all who are taking their journey with Jesus seriously Pope Benedict Recommends Spiritual Direction

The internet, discussion sites, and books, texts etc. can be a great resource - they can also be sources of confusions and non understandings. Nothing can replace quite personal sound spiritual direction and most especially if we do desire for our Unity with Jesus in The Spirit to The Glory of The Father. One God.
Prayer, it goes almost without saying to me, can achieve all things in unity with God’s Will expressed in every moment of our journey.

God bless your journey with and to Him.

 

[BarbTh]

In doing some research on the net, I came across the following document which was a real eye opener. Apparently, according to the VAtican in a statement in 2018, one does not have to be a physical virgin to be a consecrated virgin and completely new to me:

Instruction “Ecclesiae Sponsae Imago” on the “Ordo virginum”

Instruction

“Ecclesiae Sponsae Imago”

on the “Ordo virginum”, 04.07.2018

Excerpt “Christ is not reducible to the symbol of physical integrity. Thus to have kept her body in perfect continence or to have practised the virtue of chastity in an exemplary way, while of great importance with regard to the discernment, are not essential prerequisites in the absence of which admittance to consecration is not possible.”

I am slowly, very slowly, wading through the document and it is fascinating indeed and in every paragraph to date. A real eye opening education to me re the Order of Virgins or Consecrated Virginity. To me,
it does have some application for anyone like myself who is living in the laity with private vows to the evangelical counsels and perhaps moreso than religious life per se although not entirely.
Indeed the various vocations do speak to each other. My own vocation is very specifically to remain in the lay state of life in private vows to the EC.
I have read in the same text the best (easy to understand) explanation of how the marital state of life speaks to consecrated life and vv.

The document is :

(Approved by the Holy Father in an audience on June 8, 2018 )
Vatican City, June 8, 2018
Solemnity the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus

João Braz Card. de Aviz
Prefect

+José Rodríguez Carballo, O.F.M.
Archbishop Secretary

I think it was St Augustine who said that in books we read about Jesus, in prayer we meet Jesus…or words to that effect.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

We just had a separate thread on consecrated virgins, and based on that thread it seems best for anybody who wants to go the consecrated virgin route to go speak to their diocesan office and see what their bishop’s position is and what is possible where they live.

Apparently the bishop has latitude to decide whether to consecrate someone, and there are dioceses where they do not do any consecration of virgins at all.

 

[Dovekin]

Thank you! Thats an encouraging thought. I read that St Mary Magdalene was closer to God after her repentance than before her sin…and perhaps she is even closer to God now in Heaven than she would have been!

The relevant story is in Luke 7:39-56. The woman who anoints Jesus is introduced as a woman who was reportedly a sinner. Jesus recognizes that Simon, his host, has his doubts about her. Jesus tells a parable that explains that whoever is forgiven much loves much. Someone who is forgiven is able to love, perhaps more than the one who never sinned.

That story is largely responsible for St Mary Magdalen’s reputation as a sinner, but most people do not think it is a story about St Mary Magdalen. The Church emphasizes MM’s role as a witness to the death burial and resurrection of Jesus, rather than her penitence. But this story is what is relevant to you, that those who have sinned may not only love, they may love more.

 

[Cloisters]

I am of the opinion that you’re overthinking it. While being driven to compile the sources, you’re missing the whole point – “forsaking all others” as we married folk say at our weddings.

If you pay more attention to your past sins, St. Padre Pio says you’re robbing time from the Beloved. If you’re with Him, and He leads you to a more mystical union, then that is His gift.

What is a spouse? Someone you share your life with. You share expenses; live together; bring forth children; maintain dialogue; and see what your family is called by God to do.

I think I would concentrate more on Jesus than the documents.

Blessings,
Cloisters
My new congregation:
http://cloisters.tripod.com/charity/
My particular ministry promoting the cloisters and contemplative life:
http://cloisters.tripod.com/

 

[BarbTh]

I agree with what you have stated. In my own diocese we have more or less just had a change of Archbishop. Prior to the change, CV’s were not consecrated in our diocese apparently and we only had one elderly CV.

It was a real revelation to me that one did not have to be an actual physical virgin to even think about a vocation as a Consecrated Virgin. I think it is very important that we know this, while indeed to consider further a CV vocation it is best to approach one’s diocese as it is very much up to one’s diocesan bishop whether they do consecrate virgins or not and whether there are any further conditions.
Over and above CV’s, there is much valuable information in the document.

 

[SerraSemper]

It was a real revelation to me that one did not have to be an actual physical virgin to even think about a vocation as a Consecrated Virgin. I think it is very important that we know this, while indeed to consider further a CV vocation it is best to approach one’s diocese as it is very much up to one’s diocesan bishop whether they do consecrate virgins or not and whether there are any further conditions.

I think it is very important to realize that the document Ecclesiae Sponsae Imago is an “Instruction” and must be interpreted as such. Namely, it does not have the authority to change certain things or create new laws. It can only “interpret” not contradict existing law… and there is little “law” about consecrated virgins. Thus the majority of the document has little legal weight.

 

[BarbTh]

Thank you.
I think I understood what you are saying when I noted the title of the document and gave it a bit of thought, although not really sure until I read your post.

Until reading the document, I had always thought and even said that one had to be literally a virgin to consider a vocation as a CV and that includes on Catholic discussion sites. I think that notion is rather well spread and it is not strictly correct I now know. It was a real revelation to me that that is not necessarily so and coming from something out of Rome, even if only an instruction. For me personally, that has weight. It really is a quite beautiful document up to where I have read.

Since the document does not carry the weight of law in The Church, I think only - that probably a bishop of a diocese could still ask literal virginity as eligibility for consecration as a CV in his particular diocese? That is a question. We need to understand these things as Laity in case we are ever asked.
At my nephew’s First Communion in the same parish where our elderly CV lived and worked. She wore a veil to Mass. My brother said to me that she was not a real nun, she only made out to be one. I did tell him that actually she was a real nun - I did not explain CV to him as I thought at the time that would confuse him further. I had had a long conversation with her some years beforehand.
It is an eye opener to experience just how many good and faithful Catholics think that private vows and even CV’s are some crazy innovation from V2. Failure of catechesis. My Mum and Dad were really knocked all over the place by V2. They called it “the protestanization of Catholicism”.

The document in question also contains much, an awful lot really, valuable spiritual information for any vocation including single and married laity, it seems to me. And I am less than half way through it. I will read it through, put it away for a while and then read it through again once more at least. I am making notes, highlighting quotes, for my files as I read.

Thank you for your reply again

Edit: I have copied and pasted the document into Word which makes it very easy to highlight and make notes.

 

[BarbTh]

Thus the majority of the document has little legal weight.

Wouldn’t that mean that those (not bishops) who say to be consecrated as a CV one must be literally a virgin also have little legal weight in The Church ?

I have only just begun to try to research re Instructions. I found this: The Authority of (various) Church Documents

Message on 50th Anniversary of Rite of Consecrated Virgins Espoused to Christ "..may you always be women of joy, following the example of Mary..." Full Text by Pope Franics Your form of life has its primary source in the Rite and its juridical configuration in Canon 604 of the Code of Canon Law, *and, since 2018, in the Instruction [Ecclesiae Sponsae Imago]. Your vocation is a sign of the inexhaustible and manifold richness of the gifts of the Spirit of the Risen Lord, who makes all things new (cf. Rev 21:5). It is likewise a sign of hope, pointing to the fidelity of the Father, who even today awakens in the hearts of some women the desire to be consecrated to the Lord in virginity, lived out in a concrete social and cultural setting, rooted in a particular Church, and expressed in a way of life that is ancient, yet modern and ever new.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think that the bishop in a diocese still has the final say as to eligibility (including re actual virginity) for consecration as a CV in his diocese?

Catholicism keeps on getting more and more confusing. The way I settle my own confusions is that The Church always has my casting vote without referral to the legal weight of what is said out of Rome. That might not be the best way, the ideal way; however, it is the way I can handle the complexities of being Catholic.

I am suddenly aware that I have taken this thread off its subject in a way. Apologies!

 

[littlesoul33]

I think Cardinal Burke commented on this document and said that literal virginity is necessary to be a CV… i recall reading something like that

Thanks for all the replies!

 

[littlesoul33]

Thank you, that’s a great point and I love the St Padre Pio quote! God bless you!

 

[littlesoul33]

Thank you BarbTh! You are very correct that I need spiritual direction. I have a director but I’m staying in a different city at the moment due to covid and I’m not able to see him. I emailed him and he was really helpful. I hope to speak to him more about this when I’m back in town of course, I’m not trying to replace spiritual direction with the forum - I think that would be a real mistake, as you are so right, there are many opinions here. I would never want to try to spiritually direct someone on a forum haha.

God bless you!

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Cardinal Burke, like some other priests in the public eye, often makes statements that are his own personal opinions and not the position of the Church. I also don’t think Cardinal Burke is currently the bishop of any diocese, so no one is required to follow his opinions. If you or anyone else is interested in consecrated virginity, the person to speak to is your own bishop or your own diocesan office.

 

[littlesoul33]

I see what you mean, but I just seem to recall reading elsewhere on this forum, that in old moral books, it said that if a woman doesn’t have literal virginity, she would commit a sacrilige in receiving the consecration. And it’s impossible to consecrate what is not there. She would instead need to make a vow of chastity. So I think this is a very important topic that needs to be understood carefully…

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I agree and if you want to understand it, the best persons to talk to are your diocesan office and your bishop, who could direct you to other appropriate resources.

Most of what you get on here is people’'s opinions.

 

[SerraSemper]

Cardinal Burke, like some other priests in the public eye, often makes statements that are his own personal opinions and not the position of the Church. I also don’t think Cardinal Burke is currently the bishop of any diocese, so no one is required to follow his opinions.

Cardinal Burke, one of the world’s most eminent and capable canonists, who is a member of the Apostolic Signatura, the highest judiciary court of the Holy See, is not just any old “priests in the public eye”. While I don’t agree with him on everything, his canonical or theological opinion is far more informed than the average priest or bishop. Just because he is not currently a bishop of a diocese does not mean that there are not objective things to examine in candidates for the consecration of virgins, or that he is unaware of those things. He is, of course, the recipient of a letter from a Vatican dicastery that sheds much light on the requirements for consecrated virgins that has been shared and that isn’t his mere personal opinion. If we are going to just go about saying that peoples’ opinions are private, we need to be experts on the subject on which we are proclaiming that the person’s opinion is private and not the Church’s teaching. Just because something is not solidified into dogma does not preclude common Church teaching on a subject. It may be surprising to some that there is a lot of literature on consecrated virginity that is not readily accessible to the English speaker because it is in other languages. In one recent dissertation done on the consecration of virgins, there are 50 pages of bibliography alone. This goes far against the popular narrative that we know nothing about this vocation.