T
teeboy
Guest
If yes, then only after considerable counsel has been given to the individual(s) involved, and after consulting the laws of the state where the employment exists.
- Status
Z
Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
OK so it is heterolsexual interracial couple…
I dislike answering a question with a question but I have to ask…what part of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,** or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;**…don’t you understand???
Why not ask some black pastors if they would marry same-sex couples and whether they believe that such marriages are morally equivalent to interracial marriages.
T
Thorolfr
Guest
Why don’t you answer my question instead of deflecting by asking another question? If a county clerk was against heterosexual interracial marriage based on their sincerely held religious beliefs, should a heterosexual interracial couple respect that clerks beliefs and get their licence in another county? And there are still Christians who are against interracial marriage. Bob Jones University didn’t remove it own ban on interracial dating until 15 years ago, mostly because of outside pressure.
T
teeboy
Guest
Well, the state SSM laws that were shot down were not there to establish a religion and that wasn’t part of the argument before the court.
The lady was upholding her state’s laws and she did so rightly minus that fact that the Supreme Court is the final authority on the matter. In her capacity as a private individual she has a right to exercise her religious beliefs. Yet, in her capacity holding an office of profit she lost that right.
So, she is civily disobedient.
The lady was upholding her state’s laws and she did so rightly minus that fact that the Supreme Court is the final authority on the matter. In her capacity as a private individual she has a right to exercise her religious beliefs. Yet, in her capacity holding an office of profit she lost that right.
So, she is civily disobedient.
Z
Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
From a practical side…how would the church know…?
If a non-Catholic was working for a Catholic organization and got a divorce…they do not have to report that. So who knows? Who cares? If they begin to make a practice of divorce and re-marrying and their behavior becomes scandalous the the Church can take appropriate measures.
T
Thorolfr
Guest
The Catholic Church could ask its new employees on any forms they have to fill out whether they have been divorced and remarried. You wrote “Who cares?”, so are you saying that the Church doesn’t care about divorce and remarriage?
T
teeboy
Guest
There was a newspaper article about a catholic school which made its employees sign a document that they would not engage in certain behaviors. A homosexual person living with another would not sign the document and resigned. Whether or not the employer could have legitimately used the document to uphold a firing is another story. Yet, that is the crux of the matter about conscience rights. I mean, these are CATHOLIC SCHOOLS employing these people and not some secular organization. Forget the fact of whether or not they accept public funds; don’t these types of institutions rightly have the legitimate ability to hire and fire in line with their religious beliefs–I think they should.
Disclaimer…Discrimnation based on marital status may be illegal in some places.
Z
Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
The simple answer to your question is yes. Because IF that clerk is a member of a recognized religion that has as it tenants a belief that races should not be mixed…then that clerk has the right to exercise his/her religious beliefs.
However your comparing same sex marriage to interracial marriage is a specious analogy.
While there are no differences between black and white human beings, there are enormous differences between male and female human beings.
T
Thorolfr
Guest
You said that “discrimination based on marital status may be illegal in some places,” so I take it that you agree that the Catholic Church should not be able to fire any of its employees in a legal same-sex marriage if discrimination based on marital status is illegal?
T
teeboy
Guest
Whether or not the employer could have legitimately used the document to uphold a firing is another story. Yet, that is the crux of the matter about conscience rights. I mean, these are CATHOLIC SCHOOLS employing these people and not some secular organization. Forget the fact of whether or not they accept public funds; don’t these types of institutions rightly have the legitimate ability to hire and fire in line with their religious beliefs–I think they should.
Disclaimer…Discrimnation based on marital status may be illegal in some places.
Z
Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
The church is concerned about divorce and remarriage (without annulment) of Catholics
Z
Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
It’s not so much the marital status of gays…it is more about the **behavior **that a marriage legitimizes.
T
teeboy
Guest
Yes, but if the individual is trying to correct the behavior, then the individual should not be fired. Counsel and/or confession could be sought to allow for the advice and/or grace to overcome the behavior. And, if so, this would be a classic christian example of a repentant sinner who puts God above everything else.
Z
Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
I am talking about homosexual behavior in relation to Thorolfr question about interracial marriages vs same sex marriages…
H
HelenRose
Guest
I wish I were a cartoonist. I would draw a picture of Kim Davis on the ground with a crowd of angry people holding rocks in their hands shouting. “LOVE WINS LOVE WINS LOVE WINS”.
Z
Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
Let’s try to get back to the original subject. Kim is not a Catholic so essentially our Church is not directly involved.
Kim, as an elected county clerk. can very well discriminate against those seeking a marriage license. According to the laws of Kentucky…maybe first cousins are not allowed to marry…maybe there are age restrictions…maybe health issues are taken into consideration.
Discrimination means discernment. That is a good thing. Discrimination becomes evil when prejudicially applied to race, color or creed. But to discriminate against a behavior that can affect public health…is the responsibility of all public officials. Religion aside.
Z
Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
T
Thorolfr
Guest
Shouting “LOVE WINS” is so much worse than what Kim Davis’ husband Joe Davis was doing with his sign that said, "Welcome to Sodom and Gomorrah.” But perhaps what Joe Davis was doing is what the Catholic Church means when they say that homosexual persons “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.”
F
frobert
Guest
Shouting “LOVE WINS” is so much worse than what Kim Davis’ husband Joe Davis was doing with his sign that said, "Welcome to Sodom and Gomorrah.” But perhaps what Joe Davis was doing is what the Catholic Church means when they say that homosexual persons “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.”
But you forgot “with dignity.”
I
InSearchofGrace
Guest
Shouting “LOVE WINS” is so much worse than what Kim Davis’ husband Joe Davis was doing with his sign that said, "Welcome to Sodom and Gomorrah.” But perhaps what Joe Davis was doing is what the Catholic Church means when they say that homosexual persons “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.”
Sarcasm is a reaction when one realizes that there are a number of non-Catholic religions and other Protestant sects like the Apostolic Christian Church (under which the Kim and Joe Davis belong) that do not support UCC and ELCA turnaround to bless SS"M". And I would say not a subtle put down on the Catholic Church. Perhaps the moderator should make a note of these posts.
,
- Status