Religious Vegetarianism

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sam_777
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Sam_777

Guest
Humans were vegetarians from the creation till the flood (around 1656 years), GOD said in (Genesis 1:29-30) that all creatures including humans and animals will have green plant for food.

Only after the flood GOD gave humanity permission to eat meat as indicated in (Genesis 9:3), the reasons are not clear for me but maybe because of the lack of available plants to feed humans after that flood.

Moreover, in the desert of Sinai (Numbers 11) the Israelites started a food riot requesting meat to eat instead of their daily heavenly vegetarian Manna, GOD got angry for such a request and indeed He gave them meat per their request but also he sent them a severe plague while they were eating that meat.

However, in the prophecy of (Isaiah 11:6-9) we see that the lion will eat straw like the ox, that indicates that things will be again similar to the pre-flood era.

Now some might say that JESUS had consumed meat, but probably that could be “invisible meat” see (Tobit 12:19), to place Himself in solidarity with the poor of this earthy world and sending a message that eating meat is not a sin.

But after His crucifixion, I personally think no more souls should be wasted on anything including our food (as possible as we can), I think the less of the animal blood in a person the more pure the soul becomes.

May the LORD be with all those pure and kind in spirit…
 
The problem with that is Jesus ate fish after the ressurection.

Luke 24:40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate it in their presence.

I would also question the use of Tobit in this regaurd. Jesus was not an angel as the speaker in the verse of Tobit is that you quoted. Jesus was a real flesh and blood person, a jew who was bound to follow the law. We know Jesus being a jew was obliged to eat the passover sacrifice as any good practicing jew was for the time, to not do so was to seperate yourself from Israel.

We must not reduce Jesus to a ghost like the gnostics but must embrace him as a human being who like most human beings ate meat from all that we can tell.
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
We must not reduce Jesus to a ghost like the gnostics but must embrace him as a human being who like most human beings ate meat from all that we can tell.
Click to expand...
In my opinion, (Tobit 12:19) applies to JESUS before & after His crucifixion.

Moreover, no one can limit THE MOST HIGH’s WORD which phase He can take or not, JESUS can take a human shape (real flesh), an Angel (Spirit), or anything He wants, that will not reduce His holiness in any form!
 
Sam_777 said:
In my opinion, (Tobit 12:19) applies to JESUS before & after His crucifixion.

Moreover, no one can limit THE MOST HIGH’s WORD which phase He can take or not, JESUS can take a human shape (real flesh), an Angel (Spirit), or anything He wants, that will not reduce His holiness in any form!
Click to expand...
I consider what luke is trying to do is show us that Jesus was not merely a ghost, not merely a spirit. That is what the apostles at first believe and Jesus is presented with fish and eats it. A spirit cannot eat and we must understand what ressurection meant for jews of this period. It was not going to heaven, it was not becoming a spirit, it was the end time event in which all the dead are raised and judged, of that there is no real disputing.

I don’t think Luke had in mind here the verse in Tobit for there is no indication of that in the text. I will also say that by saying Christ was a man we do not limit God we merely acknowledge what Christ did say and teach. He was a man approved by God peter said. The angel tells Mary that she would bring forth a son. Jesus is baptised by john the baptist. So yes, Jesus was a man and he limted himself to the form of a man not taking his equality with God to be used for his own advantage. It is true that the ressurected body of Christ in the gospels is a mysterious thing, capable of appearing and dissapearing, being totally unnoticable to the apostles (although this might also reflect the mental state of the apostles as well), but that should not preclude us from excluding the very Christian idea that ressurection is of the Physical body. The reversal of death to show Gods glory and redemption of his fallen creation.
 
What makes a plant anything less than an animal? Do you not shed the silent blood of green animals every time you eat a lettuce? Why did God give us the jaws and teeth structure of an omnivore? All these questions as well as the rational behind the superiority of a vegan over meat eaters must be answered before I can accept a few quotes from the Bible as justifying a higher spirituality of vegans. Why hasn’t the Church spoken out against this transgression? Why has it not called us to the higher path?
Don’t make the path to Heaven any harder than it is.
 
I’m always interested to hear if folks advocating vegetarianism believe animals shouldn’t eat meat either.

My wife used to work in the animal industry, and saw many sick and malnourished housepets who had been put on vegeterian diets by their clueless owners.

From where I’m standing, you can only watch so many big cat documentaries, before you start to come to grips with the obvious fact that humans have a place in a very bloody, violent, painful, deadly world where God’s creatures eat other God’s creatures.

There are plenty of dietary guidelines in scripture (mostly OT), but if God is going to tell humans to not eat meat, He’ll need to make it a bit more clear than He has to this point.
 
This is an example of starting with a conclusion [that meat consumption ought not to be done] and then trying to find texts that support that conclusion (rather than reading the scriptures first and then coming to a conclusion).
 
Sam ~

What about in Genesis when the Lord appeared to Abraham and Sarah was instructed to make the bread and for his servant to slaughter & cook the baby cow…?

Genesis 18

6 So Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah. “Quick,” he said, “get three seahs of the finest flour and knead it and bake some bread.”

7 **Then he ran to the herd and selected a choice, tender calf and gave it to a servant, who hurried to prepare it. **8 He then brought some curds and milk and the calf that had been prepared, and set these before them. While they ate, he stood near them under a tree.
 
St. Paul was quite clear on this:

1Co 8:1 Now concerning food offered to idols: we know that “all of us possess knowledge.” “Knowledge” puffs up, but love builds up.
2 If any one imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know.
3 But if one loves God, one is known by him.
4 Hence, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.”
5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth–as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”–
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
7 However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through being hitherto accustomed to idols, eat food as really offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled.
8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do.
9 Only take care lest this liberty of yours somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.
10 For if any one sees you, a man of knowledge, at table in an idol’s temple, might he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols?
11 And so by your knowledge this weak man is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died.
12 Thus, sinning against your brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.
13 Therefore, if food is a cause of my brother’s falling, I will never eat meat, lest I cause my brother to fall.

Ro 14:20 Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for any one to make others fall by what he eats;
21 it is right not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that makes your brother stumble.
 
Petaro said:
Why hasn’t the Church spoken out against this transgression? Why has it not called us to the higher path?
Click to expand...
The Church has given us the Bible to learn, but it’s up to the person to evolve to that spirituality level by himself/herself.
 
jakasaki said:
Genesis 18
Click to expand...
🙂 Sister in Christ,

There are many possibilities I can think of for that particular case, which I believe it was between Abraham and 3 Angels/men and the LORD (Genesis 18-22: The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord."):
  1. The (Tobit 12:19) concept would apply on that if they were Angels.
  2. Had those 3 Angels/men refused the invitation of Abraham, it might had caused the anger of the LORD or it might had a unpleasant reaction by Abraham or his wife.
  3. Maybe those men were actually human beings chosen and used by the LORD in that particular incident similar to “The Seven Sleepers of Ephesus” incident, so those 3 men actually ate meat.
  4. Finally, I don’t see anywhere in that story, that the LORD himself ate anything.
 
Petaro said:
What makes a plant anything less than an animal? Do you not shed the silent blood of green animals every time you eat a lettuce? Why did God give us the jaws and teeth structure of an omnivore? All these questions as well as the rational behind the superiority of a vegan over meat eaters must be answered before I can accept a few quotes from the Bible as justifying a higher spirituality of vegans. Why hasn’t the Church spoken out against this transgression? Why has it not called us to the higher path?
Don’t make the path to Heaven any harder than it is.
Click to expand...
I think you need a brain and nervous system to feel pain, plants don’t have these.

Our jaws and teeth are made different to animals.

For me, i don’t see myself any superior to that of a person who chooses to eat meat, I ate meat for the first 18 years of my life, then my love of animals developed into a closer connection to Gods beloved creatures.

The church should speak out more for animals, but there is alot of problems to speak out for.

We are all called to a higher path, for some not consuming the flesh a creature of God helps them feel more spiritual.

👍
 
I am so very thankful that the church does not force me to become a vegetarian. My body would not function well if I could not eat meat.
 
Petaro said:
What makes a plant anything less than an animal? Do you not shed the silent blood of green animals every time you eat a lettuce? Why did God give us the jaws and teeth structure of an omnivore? All these questions as well as the rational behind the superiority of a vegan over meat eaters must be answered before I can accept a few quotes from the Bible as justifying a higher spirituality of vegans. Why hasn’t the Church spoken out against this transgression? Why has it not called us to the higher path?
Don’t make the path to Heaven any harder than it is.
Click to expand...
It is not the case that plants are less than or inferior to animals. The problem is that animal meat particularly the blood of a animal is not good for the spiritual development of a human being. That is why if you must eat meat, kosher meat is best (with the blood drained).

Once you are already spiritually developed, the meat or the blood in it is no longer that harmful.So the Dalai Lama can eat pork (he does) and it is OK for him, but maybe most of us should avoid it- chicken is the least harmful meat. Fish on the other hand is OK for everyone. I don’t think being a vegan enhances your spirituality in any way, although it may make you feel better about not exploiting animals. Sticking to cage-free chicken or grass fed cattle is of course a nice ethical thing to do.
 
Sam_777 said:
Are you sure about that! did you confirm that by a doctor?

Because people had lived for over 1656 years without meat…
Click to expand...
1656 years is a very long time to live. 🙂

I have physical issues which do not allow me to eat certain foods and fibrous vegetables are among them.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top