Religious zeal sets U.S. apart from allies

[contemplative]

Poll finds Religious zeal sets U.S. apart from allies

msnbc.msn.com/id/8113152/

As much as some of us have fun with polls here on CA forums they aren’t always accurate. Are there any thoughts you want to add to this story?

 

[Fitz]

I don’t think we are worth much as people if we don’t let our faith guide us to influence politics. If we don’t then we are all talk and we are not walking in our faith.

I don’t think any government should be subsidizing religion or offer a state sponsored religion. The opposition to government involvement in Europe would be different due to government sponsorship. They really do need a divide between church and state.

Are the polls accurate? I am not sure, but they do cut accross many countries and the comparison is interesting.

I agree that the Democratic Party in our country is in trouble due to ignoring many peoples faiths. It seems destined to failure. Many of us used to be Democrats.

 

[Elizabeth_B]

Just a couple of thoughts:

1. The article proposes one possible reason for the high percentage of people believing in God as a “business model” where there is “a greater supply of worship options than in other countries.”

No where does this article even consider the idea that God is calling each one of us. Since He is our creator, we are yearning to answer that call, whether or not no we realize who is doing the calling. Perhaps, in the past, our culture encouraged our attempts to answer this call and respected those who chose to do so.

1. The article said,

“The poll found Republicans are much more likely than Democrats to think clergy should try to influence government decisions — a sign of the challenges ahead for Democrats as they attempt to reach out to more religious voters.”

I’m curious about the wording of the poll. I believe members of the clergy have an equal right and responsibility to influence our government to represent our values. I also believe that the laity should be doing this as well.

Side thought: When we accepted limitations on the clergy speaking out, it was only a small step to limiting any person whose life is influenced by his faith.

3.In countries – such as Mexico – where people consider themselves religious, but think religious beliefs and politics should be kept separate, the social problems speak for themselves.

 

[Richardols]

Elizabeth B.:

Side thought: When we accepted limitations on the clergy speaking out, it was only a small step to limiting any person whose life is influenced by his faith.

No, just the clergy. You and I, both of whom lead lives influenced by our faiths, I trust, may speak out all we want. Clergymen have much greater influence on their congregations, particularly among the Fundamentalist/Evangelical churches, than any Catholic priest does and their agenda of wanting to “christianize” this country in their own image deserves being checked. IMO, of course.

 

[Fitz]

Richardols:

No, just the clergy. You and I, both of whom lead lives influenced by our faiths, I trust, may speak out all we want. Clergymen have much greater influence on their congregations, particularly among the Fundamentalist/Evangelical churches, than any Catholic priest does and their agenda of wanting to “christianize” this country in their own image deserves being checked. IMO, of course.

So would you be apposed to a priest saying that we need to think about life issues when voting? Just wondering. I think they should be able to talk about gay marriage and abortion.

 

[Richardols]

Fitz:

So would you be apposed to a priest saying that we need to think about life issues when voting? Just wondering. I think they should be able to talk about gay marriage and abortion.

They can do so now - about the issues, as Catholic priests do. What they can’t and shouldn’t do is to say, “Vote for Candidate So-and-so.”

 

[vern_humphrey]

Richardols:

They can do so now - about the issues, as Catholic priests do. What they can’t and shouldn’t do is to say, “Vote for Candidate So-and-so.”

Black churches do that all the time, and no one says boo about it.

But look north of the border – now that Pope Benedict XVI has issued a definitive condemnation of gay marriage, how long will it be before some Catholic bishop is sanctioned for “hate speech” and being “anti-gay?”

 

[Richardols]

vern humphrey:

Black churches do that all the time, and no one says boo about it.

Right, but difference would it make in endorsements? Just as Evangelicals are in the GOP’s pocket, so are the black churches in the Democrats’ pockets.

 

[SnorterLuster]

Richardols:

Right, but difference would it make in endorsements?

I’m not sure I understand the sentence. Am I missing something.

I do have a question for you though. I understand it is against IRS rules for a priest to endorse a candidate from the pulpit, but from one of your earlier posts are you also saying a priest could not put a candidates bumper sticker on his car or endorse his candidate on his blog?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Richardols:

Right, but difference would it make in endorsements? Just as Evangelicals are in the GOP’s pocket, so are the black churches in the Democrats’ pockets.

The difference is, when Black churches do it, the IRS looks the other way. When white churches do it – regardless of their political leaning – they are threatened with loss of their Tax Exempt Status.

And, as I pointed out, the day is coming when churches MUST speak out on political matters – or cease to follow Christ.

 

[Richardols]

SnorterLuster:

but from one of your earlier posts are you also saying a priest could not put a candidates bumper sticker on his car or endorse his candidate on his blog?

It wasn’t me who said that. A bumper sticker or blog endorsement would be quite legal, however. There they are speaking as individuals and not as representatives of their church.

 

[Richardols]

vern humphrey:

The difference is, when Black churches do it, the IRS looks the other way. When white churches do it – regardless of their political leaning – they are threatened with loss of their Tax Exempt Status.

Okay, I see your point.

And, as I pointed out, the day is coming when churches MUST speak out on political matters – or cease to follow Christ.

Can’t say that I agree with you here. I want no Catholic church to be the property of any particular candidate.

 

[SnorterLuster]

Richardols:

It wasn’t me who said that. A bumper sticker or blog endorsement would be quite legal, however. There they are speaking as individuals and not as representatives of their church.

I was referring to your replies in #4 & #6. It did seem out of character for you to restrict free speech.

 

[Richardols]

SnorterLuster:

I was referring to your replies in #4 & #6. It did seem out of character for you to restrict free speech.

Your point is well made. I will rethink my attitude about that position and see if there is reason to change. I intend to be consistent with my beliefs in free speech. Thanks for pointing out the inconsistency.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Richardols:

Can’t say that I agree with you here. I want no Catholic church to be the property of any particular candidate.

The Church will never be the property of any candidate or party. But when serious moral issues arise, the Church MUST speak out. If you have cases where one candidate takes a position compatible with Catholic morals, and the other diametrically opposite, it is appropriate for the Church to make that plain.

By the same token, it is the responsibility of Catholics in both parties to do all they can to ensure their parties do not advance positions that are counter to Catholic morals. If a party adopts a pro-abortion plank, then it is the duty of Catholics in that party to work to get that plank withdrawn. It can even be their duty to withhold support from the party in order to accomplish that.

 

[Fitz]

Richardols:

They can do so now - about the issues, as Catholic priests do. What they can’t and shouldn’t do is to say, “Vote for Candidate So-and-so.”

I have never heard a Catholic priest on the pulpit say who to vote for.

 

[Richardols]

Fitz:

I have never heard a Catholic priest on the pulpit say who to vote for.

Yes, because Catholic priests traditionally do not endorse individual candidates.