Remarriage after divorce

  • Thread starter Thread starter CaliLobo
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
sw85 said:
God has said, personally and through the unanimous witness of the Church over two millennia, that in the New and Eternal Covenant marriage is indissoluble by any means short of death. On what grounds then is there any basis to claim that God “destroys” the marriages of living persons?

Having sworn a marriage vow of chastity, they are obliged to honor that vow until they are released from it. And as I said above, God has spoken pretty definitively that the marriage bond ends only in the death of one of the partners. Hence there is the duty to remain continent, even if this is the only duty which circumstances require.
Click to expand...
So you’re admitting that the Catholic teaching is based on the Magisterium and Tradition, not the Bible.

I just don’t see how this is compatible with the nature of God. God is a loving, forgiving, merciful God.

Can you honestly visualize God telling someone whose spouse just flat-out walked out on him or her, that he or she cannot be remarried?? This is no fault of his or her own!

Does that sound and look like God’s love to you? No, it sounds like Vatican oppression, for lack of a better term.

Is a marriage in which one spouse has left the other, compatible with life?

God is the Creator, and the Creator can destroy and recreate, just like how he did in the flood.

We can play the Bible nitpicking game all we want, but the fact remains that several versions of the Bible, which cannot be categorically dismissed as inauthentic, say that God allows divorce in case of marital unfaithfulness, and therefore he allows the destruction of a marriage.
40.png
sw85:
That is true but only in a very limited sense. He delivers people from their suffering into heavenly glory. There is no particularly compelling evidence that he “delivers people from their suffering” as a matter of course on earth, and he makes no promises in that regard. Indeed he promised pretty explicitly that his faithful would suffer extensively, and of course God the Father did not intervene to relieve his Son of his own suffering.
Click to expand...
But neither does God purposely lock people into a state in which they have to suffer. That would make God a demon.
 
“what God has joined, let no man put asunder” i think that’s the bible, not the vatican.
 
CaliLobo, God banished Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden. Jesus did indeed tell us that there were rules and consequences for not following the rules.

God is all loving, but he is also just. Sometimes, people make decisions that cause them, and those around them, a lifetime of pain and suffering.

You can parse the Greek till the cows come home, but the intent of Jesus around marriage is clear.
 
bisco said:
“what God has joined, let no man put asunder” i think that’s the bible, not the vatican.
Click to expand...
But** God** can put it asunder, right?
40.png
PaulinVA:
CaliLobo, God banished Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden. Jesus did indeed tell us that there were rules and consequences for not following the rules.

God is all loving, but he is also just.
Click to expand...
How is not allowing people to remarry after divorce justice? How is it love, mercy, and forgiveness? How is the Catholic Church not making God a demon by not allowing remarriage after divorce?

How is this teaching even relevant to today’s world, in which economics and longevity do not provide incentives towards staying married?
 
CaliLobo said:
But** God** can put it asunder, right?
Click to expand...
Yes. And how would He do that? Perhaps speak about it? Perhaps use some sort of authority on earth that He established? How does God decree a divorce in your view?
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
Yes. And how would He do that? Perhaps speak about it? Perhaps use some sort of authority on earth that He established? How does God decree a divorce in your view?
Click to expand...
Well, we can use the Bible, for starters. Here is what James Dobson (Focus on the Family) says about remarriage and divorce:

http://drjamesdobson.org/Solid-Answers/Answers?a=c8029f17-a96f-4b20-bde6-b2da126f42de

Dr. Dobson has opposed divorce as an answer to marital discord with everything that is within him, and he is compelled to take issue with those who attempt to reinterpret the Scriptures on this subject. He believes that when Jesus said marriage is for life, He meant it!

Nevertheless, he feels that there are three occasions when divorce and remarriage appear to be justified in Scripture:
Code: 
When the first marriage and divorce occurred prior to salvation. Although a person cannot undo all the sins he has committed, he is forgiven for the wrongs he did before accepting Christ (see II Corinthians 5:17).
When one's mate is guilty of sexual immorality and is unwilling to repent and live faithfully with the marriage partner. Jesus states specifically that divorce and remarriage are acceptable when due to this kind of "hardness of heart" (see Matthew 19:9).
When one of the mates is an unbeliever and willfully and permanently deserts the believing partner. This does not refer to a temporary departure, but a permanent abandonment (see I Corinthians 7:12-15). Of course, Dr. Dobson recognizes that it is difficult to avoid misunderstanding when dealing with theological issues of this nature. However, we hope that this response is helpful in clarifying his position.
Such a position makes sense. God foresaw this broken world and God never intended that people be stuck in impossible situations and set up to fail. The Bible says that God will never give us a burden that we cannot bear. For God to set us up to fail would be to make him a demon.

God is merciful, loving, and forgiving. And by allowing divorce and remarriage in some cases, God is just.

For context, Islam, which is partially based on Christianity, discourages divorce and remarriage, but understands that every situation is different, and God knows best.
 
CaliLobo said:
But** God** can put it asunder, right?

How is not allowing people to remarry after divorce justice? How is it love, mercy, and forgiveness? How is the Catholic Church not making God a demon by not allowing remarriage after divorce?

How is this teaching even relevant to today’s world, in which economics and longevity do not provide incentives towards staying married?
Click to expand...
What is marriage? Is it joining a man and a woman together for life, or is it two people that have come together and will stay together until one of them gets tired.
 
PaulinVA said:
What is marriage? Is it joining a man and a woman together for life, or is it two people that have come together and will stay together until one of them gets tired.
Click to expand...
Marriage is for life, but life’s not that simple.
 
equip.org/articles/biblical-grounds-for-divorce-and-remarriage/#christian-books-1

In summary, Paul teaches that Christians, even those “unequally yoked with unbelievers” (2 Cor. 6:14), should always do all they can to preserve their marriages, both for the honor of Christ and for the spiritual good of spouse and children (1 Cor. 7:14). But if the non-Christian spouse decides either to desert the marriage or to seek divorce, the Christian does not need to work to preserve the marriage. The believer is free to grant a divorce or seek a divorce on the basis of “willful desertion”; and, having been granted that divorce, is free to remarry—but only to a fellow Christian. The deserted and divorced spouse falls into the same category as a widowed person: free to remarry, but “only in the Lord,” that is, to another Christian (1 Cor. 7:39–40).
 
CaliLobo said:
How is this teaching even relevant to today’s world, in which economics and longevity do not provide incentives towards staying married?
Click to expand...
I don’t think that’s quite true.

To begin with, look at this chart here on the prevalence of divorce in the US:

familyfacts.org/charts/120/the-divorce-rate-is-declining-but-still-high

You get an upward inflection point at 1960 (9.2 divorces per 1,000 married women) where the divorce rate starts edging up and peaks around 1980 at 22.6 divorces per 1,000 married women, edging down gradually ever since. As of 2009, we were down to 16.4.

Part of the decline in the divorce rate is probably due to self-selection (a lot of bad prospects have opted out of marriage entirely), but I also think that there was a cultural wave from about 1960-1980 where people were all, “Hey! Let’s get a divorce! Divorce is fun for the whole family!!” but as the data rolled in, it became clearer and clearer to anybody paying attention what a mess blended families can be, and how hard it is to support two households on the income(s) that used to support just one. (I would suggest reading Kay Hymowitz’s Marriage and Caste in America: Separate and Unequal Families in a Post-Marital Age–she’s very good on how middle class and non-middle class families parted ways at some point, with the middle class choosing marriage, and non-middle class family life becoming increasingly chaotic.) Speaking from a lot of experience among upper middle class families, it’s really hard to achieve a middle class childrearing experience without having two parents living under the same roof, fully engaged with the process. This is especially obvious in more expensive parts of the US–if you have children and get a divorce in an expensive coastal area, you will fall right out of the middle class.

Also, I don’t know that longevity enters into it. Divorce generally happens fairly early in a marriage–it’s not, by and large, the 80 year old ladies who are putting their 82-year-old husbands’ stuff out on the curb. (I don’t have a detailed source for that right this instant, but I was just reading a census report from 2009 that says “Marriages are most susceptible to divorce in the early years.”)

census.gov/prod/2011pubs/p70-125.pdf
 
the church offers annulment and the opportunity to remarry, under certain circumstances, in accordance with scripture.
 
When Jesus’ disciples object to his teaching on marriage, they note that Moses allowed a decree of divorce. Jesus says that this was because of the hardness of heart of the people. But then he supplants that teaching with his own, telling them that marriage is for life.

In recent times, many try to find loopholes to avoid the clear teaching of Jesus as it was understood from the time of the Apostles. We are like His hearers then, who found it to be a hard teaching, saying, ‘why would anyone marry, then?’

Jesus is the teacher of the permanence marriage. The Church only follows what He taught. The Church allows for separation of spouses for good reason, like abuse. But that doesn’t give permission for remarriage, unless and until the existing marriage is proven to have been null from the beginning.
 
CaliLobo said:
So you’re admitting that the Catholic teaching is based on the Magisterium and Tradition, not the Bible.

I just don’t see how this is compatible with the nature of God. God is a loving, forgiving, merciful God.

Can you honestly visualize God telling someone whose spouse just flat-out walked out on him or her, that he or she cannot be remarried?? This is no fault of his or her own!

Does that sound and look like God’s love to you? No, it sounds like Vatican oppression, for lack of a better term.

Is a marriage in which one spouse has left the other, compatible with life?

God is the Creator, and the Creator can destroy and recreate, just like how he did in the flood.

We can play the Bible nitpicking game all we want, but the fact remains that several versions of the Bible, which cannot be categorically dismissed as inauthentic, say that God allows divorce in case of marital unfaithfulness, and therefore he allows the destruction of a marriage.

But neither does God purposely lock people into a state in which they have to suffer. That would make God a demon.
Click to expand...
are you saying that suffering is not part of the Christian experience?
 
Here is what Fr. John Hardon says:

The couple are asked to promise “to have and to hold …until death do us part.” The vow does not say, “As long as you both shall want to,” because marriage is a promise to continue even when you no longer wish to. If marriage were to end when (romantic) love does, it would be redundant: why solemnly ask two persons to promise to be with each other for as long as they wish to be with each other?

Source
 
CaliLobo said:
Marriage is for life, but life’s not that simple.
Click to expand...
In other words, its until two people grow tired of each other but you don’t like the way that sounds so you try and word it to make it sound like its something else. If its actually for life then its actually for life. If there’s an out for anyone who decides they now think its too difficult then it is not for life but instead is until one or the other person decides they want an out. 🤷
 
CaliLobo said:
How is this teaching even relevant to today’s world, in which economics and longevity do not provide incentives towards staying married?
Click to expand...
So, marriage only matters if there are incentives? I don’t think that’s the way it’s supposed to work.
 
CaliLobo said:
Well, we can use the Bible, for starters. Here is what James Dobson (Focus on the Family) says about remarriage and divorce:

http://drjamesdobson.org/Solid-Answers/Answers?a=c8029f17-a96f-4b20-bde6-b2da126f42de

Dr. Dobson has opposed divorce as an answer to marital discord with everything that is within him, and he is compelled to take issue with those who attempt to reinterpret the Scriptures on this subject. He believes that when Jesus said marriage is for life, He meant it!

Nevertheless, he feels that there are three occasions when divorce and remarriage appear to be justified in Scripture:
Code: 
When the first marriage and divorce occurred prior to salvation. Although a person cannot undo all the sins he has committed, he is forgiven for the wrongs he did before accepting Christ (see II Corinthians 5:17).
When one's mate is guilty of sexual immorality and is unwilling to repent and live faithfully with the marriage partner. Jesus states specifically that divorce and remarriage are acceptable when due to this kind of "hardness of heart" (see Matthew 19:9).
When one of the mates is an unbeliever and willfully and permanently deserts the believing partner. This does not refer to a temporary departure, but a permanent abandonment (see I Corinthians 7:12-15). Of course, Dr. Dobson recognizes that it is difficult to avoid misunderstanding when dealing with theological issues of this nature. However, we hope that this response is helpful in clarifying his position.
Such a position makes sense. God foresaw this broken world and God never intended that people be stuck in impossible situations and set up to fail. The Bible says that God will never give us a burden that we cannot bear. For God to set us up to fail would be to make him a demon.

God is merciful, loving, and forgiving. And by allowing divorce and remarriage in some cases, God is just.

For context, Islam, which is partially based on Christianity, discourages divorce and remarriage, but understands that every situation is different, and God knows best.
Click to expand...
So James Dobson is your authority for marriage?

Weird. I chose Peter and his successors.
 
Pope Francis must have read my thread; that’s why he opened up the Synod. 😃
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top