Remember Abduh Rahman?

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cestusdei

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He was the Afghan convert to Christianity they were going to murder. He was given asylum in Italy. Now an Italian journalist named Torsello, who apparently has “converted” to Islam, has been kidnapped in Afghanistan. His terrorist captors are demanding that Italy return Rahman or they will kill him. When these guys want blood they will go to great lengths to get it. Oh but remember Islam means peace…right?

I have to hand it to Islam if I could kidnap people and hold a gun to their head I could convert a lot of them. And if we decided to execute any Catholic who left the Church think of how many new faces you would see at Mass. New evangelization Islamic style.
 
So wait, the guy converted (I’m sorry… “reverted” :rolleyes: ) to Islam, and the terrorists are STILL holding him hostage? You just can’t win with these guys.
 
I think his conversion was helped along by a 9 mm pistol to the head. Very persuasive.
 
cestusdei said:
He was the Afghan convert to Christianity they were going to murder. He was given asylum in Italy. Now an Italian journalist named Torsello, who apparently has “converted” to Islam, has been kidnapped in Afghanistan. His terrorist captors are demanding that Italy return Rahman or they will kill him. When these guys want blood they will go to great lengths to get it. Oh but remember Islam means peace…right?

I have to hand it to Islam if I could kidnap people and hold a gun to their head I could convert a lot of them. And if we decided to execute any Catholic who left the Church think of how many new faces you would see at Mass. New evangelization Islamic style.
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I guess our war in Afghanistan, ostensibly to remove the Taliban regime, his yielded limited results.
 
Well under the Taliban Rahman would have been executed long ago. So for him it had good results. Yes, we put an end to stoning women and little things like that. Too bad eh? But your concern for this Italian is touching. Nice that you blame us rather then the butchers who took him. Say have you seen the Pearl video? As a Jew I am sure you would be interested in how you will be treated should Islam ever hold sway.
 
The bottom line is, I think, that Islam cannot be considered a religion until and unless it gives its followers the freedom to choose not to practice it. Otherwise, it is just a cult with a lot of hostages.
 
cestusdei said:
Well under the Taliban Rahman would have been executed long ago. So for him it had good results. Yes, we put an end to stoning women and little things like that. Too bad eh? But your concern for this Italian is touching. Nice that you blame us rather then the butchers who took him. Say have you seen the Pearl video? As a Jew I am sure you would be interested in how you will be treated should Islam ever hold sway.
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I’m not blaming us. I’m just pointing out that not much has changed in Afghanistan. It just is not getting the press it deserves because of Iraq.
 
It has improved, but it could be better. The Afghan people need to take charge and resolve to change. Freedom of religion is a must. History should have taught us that by now. You are correct. They are a cultlike until people are free to stay or leave according to their conscience. The time for killing apostates from any religion is over.
 
Valke2 said:
The bottom line is, I think, that Islam cannot be considered a religion until and unless it gives its followers the freedom to choose not to practice it. Otherwise, it is just a cult with a lot of hostages.
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Islam doesnt care who considers it what . When religions start worrying about their public image for following Gods laws then they will end up like the Yemenite jews bieng able to marry more than one and the european jews cant. Soly for the purpose that these were in Yemen and these were in Europe.

It is what kept islam intact . I would rather be called a non practicing muslim and not change one letter in my faith under pressure of others.

if any feel that their faith can accept that or already did that then be my guest.

all the best

meedo
 
Even if that one letter of faith says you should kill Abdul Rahman and anyone who leaves Islam? A yes or no answer will suffice.
 
meedo said:
Islam doesnt care who considers it what . When religions start worrying about their public image for following Gods laws then they will end up like the Yemenite jews bieng able to marry more than one and the european jews cant. Soly for the purpose that these were in Yemen and these were in Europe.

It is what kept islam intact . I would rather be called a non practicing muslim and not change one letter in my faith under pressure of others.

if any feel that their faith can accept that or already did that then be my guest.

all the best

meedo
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With all due respect, Catholicism has been intact 2000 years, longer than Islam, without threat of death for apostasy. 🙂
 
Jennifer123 said:
With all due respect, Catholicism has been intact 2000 years, longer than Islam, without threat of death for apostasy. 🙂
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This is not true. Catholicism demanded death for heresy and apostasy right up until the 19th century.

For most of Catholicism’s history, it has punished heretics and apostates with death.
 
Jennifer123 said:
With all due respect, Catholicism has been intact 2000 years, longer than Islam, without threat of death for apostasy. 🙂
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By killing scientists?! By a Holy Inquisition that killed or kicked out or forced converted all the jews and muslims in spain? By Killing even the eastern christian in Jerusalem in the Crusades? By bieng silent while the Holocaust wwent on and on? Can i ask again why did John Paul need to appologise to the Greek?! By massacring like dogs the native south americans?

Catholicism might have stayed intact alright . But certainly not what Jesus believed.
 
meedo said:
By killing scientists?! By a Holy Inquisition that killed or kicked out or forced converted all the jews and muslims in spain? By Killing even the eastern christian in Jerusalem in the Crusades? By bieng silent while the Holocaust wwent on and on? Can i ask again why did John Paul need to appologise to the Greek?! By massacring like dogs the native south americans?

Catholicism might have stayed intact alright . But certainly not what Jesus believed.
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The events you and another poster produced, even if true as you believe (which they aren’t, the Church was hardly silent during the Halocaust for example) are hardly evidence of any official Church teaching that advocates death to any Catholic that wants to leave the Chuch of their own volition. 🙂
 
Jennifer123 said:
The events you and another poster produced, even if true as you believe (which they aren’t, the Church was hardly silent during the Halocaust for example) are hardly evidence of any official Church teaching that advocates death to any Catholic that wants to leave the Chuch of their own volition. 🙂
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The Popes throughout history have sanctioned and even ordered death for heresy and apostasy.

Numerous Church Councils have reinforced it.

St. Thomas Aquinas himself explicitly supported the practice.

What is official Church teaching, if not the statements of Popes, Councils, and theologians all saying the same thing for more than 1000 years?
 
pro_universal said:
The Popes throughout history have sanctioned and even ordered death for heresy and apostasy.

Numerous Church Councils have reinforced it.

St. Thomas Aquinas himself explicitly supported the practice.

What is official Church teaching, if not the statements of Popes, Councils, and theologians all saying the same thing for more than 1000 years?
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Catholics can say and do anything they want to, like anyone else regardless of belief, even if unfortunately that means they will confuse others about what Catholicism really teaches or that it contradicts Church teaching.
There is Catholic doctrine and dogma. If you can show me where in dogma or doctrine the Chuch calls for the death of Catholics leaving the faith, I’ll concede. 😃
 
Its a phony threat. They wont kill a genuine convert to Islam. THere is no basis in their laws to carry out this threat.

ITs a farce of giganic proportions. This new convert better commit a crime and fast for them to actually follow thruough with this sham.
 
Jennifer123 said:
Catholics can say and do anything they want to, like anyone else regardless of belief, even if unfortunately that means they will confuse others about what Catholicism really teaches or that it contradicts Church teaching.
There is Catholic doctrine and dogma. If you can show me where in dogma or doctrine the Chuch calls for the death of Catholics leaving the faith, I’ll concede. 😃
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Well, what constitutes dogma in your eyes? There is no set definition, but I can definitely prove to you that Popes, Councils, and the greatest theologians have all supported this punishment for heretics and apostates.

Would that be enough? Or do you want something more?
 
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