T
Texas_Roofer
Guest
Maybe I have seen your draft card? If you break Natural [Moral] Law your price maybe hell. If you break any Laws of Nature you can be famous!
There is no need that court is run by an omniscent one
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G
Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
That must be true. Because I don’t get it. …
**For created particular things to exist at all, they have to be limited - IOW, have something to distinguish & separate them from other things. If nothing was limited & bordered, nothing would be anything-in-particular. **
**This is not true of God, because God is Infinite Being as well as Pure Spirit: He is distinguished from creatures by being their Creator; they require Him, but not He them. **
T
Texas_Roofer
Guest
they are limited by content, you can claim to be ten feet tall. You can even develop your own measuring system which measures you at ten feet however your content does not change.
In other words things of content do not need empty lines to define them
J
jman507
Guest
You could for instance have two gangs not really having a clear concept of a well defined boarder, but just sort of areas that exist. Granted if they think their areas of influnce overlap, you may end with a gang war.
T
Texas_Roofer
Guest
There you go people raping and pillaging on both sides of the street and your concern is did anyone cross the street !
P
pnewton
Guest
I get it. It is a silly, inaccurate analogy. Geometry has no relationship with politics or any other social science.
Carry the logic to its conclusion, that borders equal structure equal social good, then the greatest good would be borders around the states, cities and neighborhoods where one needs papers and permission to step outside their own property.
Carry the logic to its conclusion, that borders equal structure equal social good, then the greatest good would be borders around the states, cities and neighborhoods where one needs papers and permission to step outside their own property.
B
Bullfighter
Guest
You must love John Lennon:
Imagine there’s no Heaven
It’s easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today
Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
You may say that I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday you’ll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You may say that I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday you’ll join us
And the world will live as one
Lennon was obviously an atheist!
P
pnewton
Guest
Can’t stand him. Why do you ask? Is he a favorite of yours? Was he a “Mexican invader”?
J
jman507
Guest
It’s not raping and pillaging, that’s just an arbitary man-made idea. Who has a right to say that this is my property? Who has a right to say if part of your body crosses a boarder of some personal space it is wrong? Boarders after all only keep us from our true freedom. Besides then what? You want to put the rapers and pillagers into prison? The same prisons that are limiting and harmful?
J
jmcrae
Guest
He erased the whole shape, of each shape, because what makes the shape, is the border of the shape.That must be true. Because I don’t get it. …
B
Blade_and_Blood
Guest
That’s pretty straight-forward. Without borders, there would be no conflict, no problems, therefore no solutions. Just a peaceful life in a comfortable diverse world.
Not many people want that.
Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood
J
jmcrae
Guest
Of course they used borders; how would they have known when they were passing into the territory of the Philistines, etc., if there were no markers of some kind?
They were territorial - it depends on where you were, what sort of markings were used - out here, they used the natural landscape itself to demarcate the territory, and also the fact that our Indians here were following the bison - where the bison were, that was “their” territory, and God help anybody who got on it by accident.
In other areas, they marked territory by making little skull heads with special markings, to signify, “don’t come here; this is ours,” Or whatever.
You are right that they didn’t have the concept of buying or selling land; that doesn’t mean they didn’t think of it as “their” place.
A little child also has no concept of his parents ever selling their house, but he still knows it’s “his” house and that other people aren’t supposed to go in there without being invited by him and his parents.
B
Bullfighter
Guest
“Religion is good stuff for keeping common people quiet.”
* Napoleon*
J
jmcrae
Guest
Actually, the whole point of the borders in the first place, is that people weren’t comfortable with so many other people’s elbows in their personal space.
Kids as young as two get mad and fight when their brother or sister steps into “their” side of the room or leaves a mess in “their” space, and if there is no marker to show whose side is whose, someone makes one.
J
jman507
Guest
No, that’s where part of the problem is, boarders are not themselves a social good, as you could say charity is a social good. Boarders are just a tool that are morally neutral.
One could say that laws and rules are a good thing. Would you want to invest in a company that does not want to give financial details that follow a certain set of accounting rules? We all know what can happen when people can cook the books. It’s not that the having books to cook is the problem, it was the deception of saying we are following the rules look at our statements, but actually we are not.
At the same time, having those rules and laws does not mean that everything we do should be dictated by a statute. It is good though that we do have statutes to limit us. It is a good thing we have laws against stealing, rape and murder. It is also a good thing we have rules saying that if your going to put someone in prison for breaking those rules, we have rules that regulate that procedure. Again as good as that may be, that does not mean we have to extend rules to say that I must wake up at 6:45 AM. The rules and laws are neutral, it is our action of enacting and enforcing them that is good or bad, and that deals with justice and prudence.
We will always have boarders, be it de facto or de jure - either as they are applied in reality or regulated by law. If you don’t like de jure boarders wait til they are de facto. You think they harm the poor when they are de jure, when they are de facto, they are more easily apt to be abused by those with the most means to power. After a certain amount of people are in a certain amount of space, it will become far easier to have them enacted by law. You can either solve disputes with an arbiter or you can use resources to enforce the boarders yourself. At least by law you can be far more certain that your border today will be your boarder next year, unless you decide give it up for some reason such as to sell it for money.
If you make a boarder just to make a boarder, that would be stupid in my opinion, because it seems to me it lacks prudence. If you need to set up a boarder to regulate flow of something that sounds reasonable. Depending on the flow you try to regulate, that may be right or wrong, with regard to prudence or justice. That itself though is a separate argument, and I think the proper argument. Granted I don’t think I could justify having a boarder any more than I could justify having government to an anarchist. About the only argument you can make is that it is practical, which really doesn’t do a great job of justifying it.
B
Blade_and_Blood
Guest
:sad_yes: Yeah, pretty much. It doesn’t seem like anyone knows how to deal with people fairly, huh?
Ironically Yours.
P
pnewton
Guest
I know. It is the analogy that I objected to. It simplifies a complex issue into an untrue principle. Not all borders are good, nor or they bad and none have to do with geometry.
BTW - as to the Biblical debate, of course they used borders in the Bible. There are even some boundry markers mentioned in the Bible.
J
jman507
Guest
Well, I wouldn’t really say that to say it is an analogy is not quite appropriate, sure it maybe but not a very good one. The principle is true, boarders are there to include and exclude. Of course boarders may not be as discrete and definite as a line or a curve. The complexity of the issue doesn’t come from boarders; boarders are not good nor bad, but neutral. The complexity of the issues comes from who we set up the boarders. More specifically they come from the variables that have to deal with justice and prudence, which are not simple issues either.
With respect to our boarders and geometry, the real mutual idea is that boarders allow one to say if one thing is enclosed in some shape, or is one thing is on this side or that side of the line. That itself is neutral. That allows us to use logic for what ever reason we need it. Does a person driving a car who is caught speeding in Kansas have any jurisdiction in Georgia? If Georgia law says only people speeding in the boarder of Georgia can be sited for speeding, then the logical answer is no.
J
jmcrae
Guest
Please - it’s “border” - not “boarder.”
A “boarder” is a single gentleman or lady who rents out a bedroom from you for a temporary period of time, because they are going to school, or looking for work, and you take them in so that they can do that.
A “boarder” is a single gentleman or lady who rents out a bedroom from you for a temporary period of time, because they are going to school, or looking for work, and you take them in so that they can do that.
B
Bullfighter
Guest
Many years ago, my grandmother rented her second floor flat to what she thought would be a man, a woman, and their young daughter. In a few days, it turned into 10 people trying to turn that flat into a South of the Border Hilton. Needless to say she had trouble with her boarders.Please - it’s “border” - not “boarder.”
A “boarder” is a single gentleman or lady who rents out a bedroom from you for a temporary period of time, because they are going to school, or looking for work, and you take them in so that they can do that.
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