Renegade Priest Leads a Split St. Louis Parish

[Feanor2]

I am an ethnic Catholic who feels great sympathy and sorrow for the plight of the many ethnic parishes that have been closed down across the country in recent years by bishops who just want money to pay off the many lawsuits that their diocese are embroiled in. These churches are a treasure to our American Church and should b
Another sad thing with this case is how many so called “conservative” Catholics will defend then archbishop Burke’s actions against this Polish church simply because he is considered orthodox by them. If this had been Cardinal Mahoney who was causing trouble for an ethnic church, I’m sure that the internet would be a buzz with support for the parishioners. Burke gets a pass though and is even vigorously defended by some for needlesly picking a fight with people where none needed to exist. I like the fact that Burke stands with the Church on issues of doctrine, but not at the expense of defending him when his actions caused a scandal.

Well some may back Burke because of their affinity for him but I certainly don’t.

I’m not the hugest fan of Burke but he is the Bishop so what he says goes.

I would say the same thing about a Mahoney or any other Bishop. They have the big hats after all. . . .

 

[Dale_M]

Instead of closing down the old, ethnic churches, the bishops should sell off the ugly, modern looking suburban ones they build these days and find some way to move these old churches from their decaying urban areas out to the suburbs so the present generation of Catholics can attend them (Its possible to move a building and would probably cost the same as to build a new church).

Its not a bad idea, and certainly the case of that church which was moved from Buffalo, New York all the way down to Georgia is attention getting. However, many older churches are not in good condition. Their parishes may have been dwindling for years, and badly needed maintenance deferred because finances are so tight. Such buildings might not survive a move. Still, it certainly is worth considering. Why tear down the old churches or sell them to a Protestant denomination simply because the demographics of the area have changed?

Well some may back Burke because of their affinity for him but I certainly don’t.

I’m not the hugest fan of Burke but he is the Bishop so what he says goes.

This is a minor point, but I just wanted to point out that Archbishop Burke is no longer in St. Louis, but in Rome (as in Italy.) He was promoted to the Vatican, where he is in charge of the Apostolic Signatura - the Vatican’s highest court.

Archbishop Robert James Carlson now oversees the St. Louis archdiocese.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I don’t like this crazy Bozek guy, but I also sympathize with the parishioners of St Stans who were forced to turn to him, either out of confusion or disgust with the policies of the SL archdiocese in trying to supress their parish. Why couldn’t the SL archdiocese just leave these poor Polish people alone and let things be as they were for 90 some years with the parish owning the property? Why did archbishop Burke just have to flex his muscle at them at this one moment, for what purpose were they made an example of for?
He did not close the parish, he just wanted them to conform to the same model as all the other parishes. Rigali started it, then got moved to Philadelphia. Those “poor Polish people” retaliated by changing their bylaws to omit the Bishop’s approval of elected board members. He did not want their money!!! Read the previous posts!!

I am an ethnic Catholic who feels great sympathy and sorrow for the plight of the many ethnic parishes that have been closed down across the country in recent years by bishops who just want money to pay off the many lawsuits that their diocese are embroiled in. These churches are a treasure to our American Church and should be preserved at all cost. They were built with the sweat and blood of poor immigrants and maintaind for many decades by devouted parishioners, only to be axed in hurry when the bishop needed to come up with some quick cash.

Archbishop Burke had a vocal group who disliked him and bashed him at every turn. Especially the press and so-called Catholics, who didn’t agree with Church teachings.

You have painted Archbishop Burke with a broad brush that does not apply to him at all.

 

[Kearney]

I can sympathize with the plight archbishop Burke was in (At least he didn’t close parishes with gay abandonment like other bishops have done across the country). I still think that it was unecessary for him to try and change the century old bi-laws for St Stan’s. For the sake of pastoral compassion and the urgency of the other big fish that he needed to fry in SL, he should have just let them go on as they had for so long and not choose this period of time to make an issue out of the parishes statues.

 

[ALLGIRLS]

He did not close the parish, he just wanted them to conform to the same model as all the other parishes. Rigali started it, then got moved to Philadelphia. Those “poor Polish people” retaliated by changing their bylaws to omit the Bishop’s approval of elected board members. He did not want their money!!! Read the previous posts!! Yes, now the parish got stolen by the gay homosexual priest who attended Womenpriest ordination in a Jewish Synagogue. BTW, Burke kept open EVERY ethnic parish in St. Louis. Some had been designated to close under former Archbshp Rigali. Burke reversed it and kept them open. He even took some other lovely old church buildings and turned them into ethnic parishes. He created ethnic parishes for Spanish, Vietnamese, and Hungarians, and got native priests to say mass for them in their own language. He got a polish priest for St. Agatha’s, another beautiful old church in the city that was slated to close under Rigali. He kept open the beautiful St. Francis de Sales, the “Cathedral of South St. Louis” which was slated to be closed under Rigali. He turned it into an Oratory for TLM!

Give him a break!
Nothing was closed, he promised to keep it open. If you can’t even believe your own church, then why would you want to belong to it?
Archbishop Burke had a vocal group who disliked him and bashed him at every turn. Especially the press and so-called Catholics, who didn’t agree with Church teachings.

You have painted Archbishop Burke with a broad brush that does not apply to him at all.

:clapping:

Thank you! Burke was never trying to close the parish! If that was the case, he wouldn’t have moved the parish to St. Agatha’s! Bishops for years (can’t remember how long, but it started before Rigali) had been trying to bring St. Stan’s into compliance, but they refused. Rigali was about to “bring the hammer down” when he was moved to Philadelphia. All these Burke bashers seem to think he swooped into town and started closing parishes and selling them for sex abuse settlements. That’s not true at all! They were p*ssed at him because he’s EXTREMELY orthodox (like, EWTN and Catholic Answers orthodox!) and whenever a controversial issue would come up (like openly “prochoice” Catholics) the press would interview him, and he wouldn’t budge on Church teaching.

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[Feanor2]

Its not a bad idea, and certainly the case of that church which was moved from Buffalo, New York all the way down to Georgia is attention getting. However, many older churches are not in good condition. Their parishes may have been dwindling for years, and badly needed maintenance deferred because finances are so tight. Such buildings might not survive a move. Still, it certainly is worth considering. Why tear down the old churches or sell them to a Protestant denomination simply because the demographics of the area have changed?

This is a minor point, but I just wanted to point out that Archbishop Burke is no longer in St. Louis, but in Rome (as in Italy.) He was promoted to the Vatican, where he is in charge of the Apostolic Signatura - the Vatican’s highest court.

Archbishop Robert James Carlson now oversees the St. Louis archdiocese.

Thanks Dale,

I knew that but it slipped my mind when I wrote tis post.

 

[qui_est_ce]

:clapping:

Thank you! Burke was never trying to close the parish! If that was the case, he wouldn’t have moved the parish to St. Agatha’s! Bishops for years (can’t remember how long, but it started before Rigali) had been trying to bring St. Stan’s into compliance, but they refused. Rigali was about to “bring the hammer down” when he was moved to Philadelphia. All these Burke bashers seem to think he swooped into town and started closing parishes and selling them for sex abuse settlements. That’s not true at all! They were p*ssed at him because he’s EXTREMELY orthodox (like, EWTN and Catholic Answers orthodox!) and whenever a controversial issue would come up (like openly “prochoice” Catholics) the press would interview him, and he wouldn’t budge on Church teaching.

In Christ,

Ellen

You must have had some great nuns teaching you the real teachings of the Catholic Church!!

 

[qui_est_ce]

I can sympathize with the plight archbishop Burke was in (At least he didn’t close parishes with gay abandonment like other bishops have done across the country).

Name me one bishop who closed parishes with “gay abandonment.” I firmly believe every bishop thinks long and hard before closing a parish. NOBODY likes having to do that.

I still think that it was unecessary for him to try and change the century old bi-laws for St Stan’s. For the sake of pastoral comp[assion and the urgency of the other big fish that he needed to fry in SL, he should have just let them go on as they had for so long and not choose this period of time to make an issue out of the parishes statues.

Why? Don’t you think the archdiocese has a responsibility to the parishioners about the $9 million dollars? Where is the money? Where is it invested? Did somebody run off with it? Nobody talks about the fact that the archdiocese wanted to do an audit, and the BOARD refused.

Also, can you name me a bigger fish that he did not attend to? He was only in St. Louis for a short time, yet he started the New Evangelization, stood up to Pro-abort “Catholic” basketball coaches, increased seminary attendance by 100%, kept open many ethnic parishes that were slated to close under Rigali, addressed the priest sex scandal by starting making participation in “Protecting God’s Children” program.

What more do you want him to do?
[/quote]

 

[Kearney]

Cardinal O’Mally of Boston has closed around 60 parishes in his archdiocese. Many of them still had active communities (Such as Our Lady of Mount Carnel church in East Boston). O’ Mally showed no concern or sensitivity to the parishioners of the churches he ordered closed, only a desire for money and a rush to herd all Catholics into a select few churches so he could close and profit off those less fortunate.

 

[ALLGIRLS]

You must have had some great nuns teaching you the real teachings of the Catholic Church!!

Thanks for the compliment, but, unfortunately, no. I went to a liberal all girls’ high school in the mid eighties (Rosati-Kain), and really knew nothing until I “self learned” by listening to Catholic Answers when I came back to practicing the Faith after college.

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[estesbob]

Cardinal O’Mally of Boston has closed around 60 parishes in his archdiocese. Many of them still had active communities (Such as Our Lady of Mount Carnel church in East Boston). O’ Mally showed no concern or sensitivity to the parishioners of the churches he ordered closed, only a desire for money and a rush to herd all Catholics into a select few churches so he could close and profit off those less fortunate.

And your evidence of this is?

 

[qui_est_ce]

Thanks for the compliment, but, unfortunately, no. I went to a liberal all girls’ high school in the mid eighties (Rosati-Kain), and really knew nothing until I “self learned” by listening to Catholic Answers when I came back to practicing the Faith after college.

In Christ,

Ellen

I must have you confused with a Cor Jesu graduate.

 

[qui_est_ce]

And your evidence of this is?

Don’t you think it’s judgmental to presume what is in O’Malley’s heart? We belong to the universal church, of which the parish is a part. I am not a “Church of Our Lady of Mount Carmel in East Boston Catholic.”

As St. Ignatius of Antioch said in 107 AD, “Where the bishop is, there is the Catholic Church.”

 

[qui_est_ce]

Cardinal O’Mally of Boston has closed around 60 parishes in his archdiocese. Many of them still had active communities (Such as Our Lady of Mount Carnel church in East Boston). O’ Mally showed no concern or sensitivity to the parishioners of the churches he ordered closed, only a desire for money and a rush to herd all Catholics into a select few churches so he could close and profit off those less fortunate.

What Archbishop O’Malley did has no bearing on what Archbishop Burke did. The topic is St. Stanislaus brought into schism by a renegade priest.

 

[revert_jen]

I still think that it was unecessary for him to try and change the century old bi-laws for St Stan’s. For the sake of pastoral comp[assion and the urgency of the other big fish that he needed to fry in SL, he should have just let them go on as they had for so long and not choose this period of time to make an issue out of the parishes statues.

Well, as others have pointed out, an audit is something that is for the good of the people of the parish, to make sure that their money is being used for what they want.

But the other thing is, if the parish is administered by the diocesan trust like most parishes, then it would be impossible for the board to effectively take the parish away from the local faithful Polish Catholics and hand it over to a defrocked priest and his mostly non-Polish dissident followers. I’d say that what has happened is reason enough not to have parishes continue under this model.

If the diocese loses the fight, then it’s even worse than if the diocese had sold the parish. The Catholic parish will be gone (replaced by some new religion created by Bozek), and the diocese won’t even have any money from it to use in feeding the poor, helping women with unwanted pregnancies, etc.

So basically, the outcome has justified the Archbishop’s original position more obviously than any argument could do.

–Jen
[/quote]

 

[SwizzleStick]

…What happened to the $9 million?

Good question. We’ll probably never know. But, StLouisCatholic.blogspot.com covered the whole St. Stan’s debacle well and asked good questions and offered commentary on several angles of the story, one of which is excerpted below. The anti-Catholic, pro-Bozek Post Dispatch could have done a much better job investigating and reporting on the issue below and its link to St. Stan’s, but they remained pretty quiet about it. Guess their bashing our wonderful Archbishop Burke and cheerleading Bozek and the schism at St. Stan’s and then having this link to possible corruption come out regarding Board members at St. Stan’s could have proven to be a bit embarrassing and impacted remaining credibility of the paper.

"23 September 2008
Something Missing from Coverage of the Tow Company Scandal

…What this collection of stories lacks is nearly any investigation into the owners of the tow company, one of whom, William Bialczak, is the head of the Board of the St. Stanislaus Kostka Corporation, and supporter of the excommunicate Marek Bozek.

Only one of the stories makes more than a passing mention of him, and notes that the Mokwa and Bialczak families had some connection. But the sum total of the investigation of the newspaper into Bialczak’s role in the case is as follows:

Lot owners William and Kenneth Bialczak have not responded to requests for comment.

That’s it? That’s the best they can do?

When the whole St. Stan’s issue began to blow up, in addition to the wild accusations about the Archbishop and his motivations, there were people who were concerned that the Board was not rendering a full and fair accounting of the assets and cash of St. Stan’s and what use the Board made of them. The worry was a lack of transparency-- and the Archdiocese may not be pleased by gaining knowledge of what was going on. This part of the story was dutifully ignored by the press for three years.

And now Bialczak’s tow company is accused of cooperation with police corruption. It allegedly owes the city $700,000. And it is under further investigation by the FBI and the IRS."…

Source with links to StLToday stories: stlouiscatholic.blogspot.com/2008/09/something-missing-from-coverage-of-tow.html

 

[Kearney]

Don’t you think it’s judgmental to presume what is in O’Malley’s heart? We belong to the universal church, of which the parish is a part. I am not a “Church of Our Lady of Mount Carmel in East Boston Catholic.”

As St. Ignatius of Antioch said in 107 AD, “Where the bishop is, there is the Catholic Church.”

Does this mean that the bishop has a right to close century old churches down and scatter their parishioners to the four winds? Does the bishop have the right to make stupid decisions which we must submit to without complant simply because he is a bishop? I cannot prove what is in O’ Malleys heart, but I can certainly judge his outward actions as rash and uncalled for. These church closings are damaging the Boston archdiocese and ethnically cleansing ethnic communties of their churches.
Each local church represents the larger, universal one. When you close down even one parish needlessly then you are, in a sense taking away the universal Church and her membership from the peoples of the local community who attended these churches. Is that right?

 

[Orogeny]

Does this mean that the bishop has a right to close century old churches down and scatter their parishioners to the four winds?

Yes, it does.

Does the bishop have the right to make stupid decisions which we must submit to without complant simply because he is a bishop? I cannot prove what is in O’ Malleys heart, but I can certainly judge his outward actions as rash and uncalled for. These church closings are damaging the Boston archdiocese and ethnically cleansing ethnic communties of their churches.

Is ethnicity more important than the Church? You admit you don’t know what is in his heart and, I assume (and yes, I know what happens when one assumes) you don’t know all the facts behind his decisions. Even so, you call his decisions rash and stupid? Really???

Each local church represents the larger, universal one. When you close down even one parish needlessly then you are, in a sense taking away the universal Church and her membership from the peoples of the local community who attended these churches. Is that right?

Do you advocate breaking from the Bishop? Should the parishes you are referring to go out, hire renegade priests and split from the Bishop?

I don’t think that is what you are suggesting, but it is easy to get that from what you have posted. I understand how emotional it must be when a parish is closed, especially one that is part of the identity of a particular community. But I can’t believe that you really think that the Bishop closed those parishes for no good reason other than to scatter the community.

Peace

Tim

 

[Kearney]

No it doesn’t. We the people in the pews are the Church. We pay for the priest, the bishops, and the worship sites which we occupy every Sunday for prayer and praise. The bishop should not rule his diocese like an autocrat suppressing this and that church in order to collect the revenues from it to pay for the crimes of those in his diocese.

I shouldn’t have to make a choice between my nationality and my religious faith. They both go back a long way and are complimentary to each other. I’m tired of being told that they must be separated by bishops who want to force us all to homogenize and become a like. The Italian form of Catholicism if different then that practiced by groups like the Irish and Germans. Ours is more festive, more vibrant, and more easy going in some ways then the northern European type of Catholicism. Many people will grow bitter and end up leaving or become alienated from the Church if they don’t have their own parish to attend which cater to their own needs and identity. We have a duty to preserve this type of religious expression for our children, and their children.

 

[Kearney]

italoamericano.com/italian%20connection/grazie_a_dio.htm

Dear Readers,

As the season of Lent begins (February 25, Ash Wednesday) I thought for purposes of inspiration and hope I would give you an update on two churches in Boston, Massachusetts that a cash strapped Archdiocese wanted to close nearly five years ago.

“Grazie a Dio” the two churches were in what once were predominantly Italian neighborhoods. Many parishioners remembered how their parents and grandparents had sacrificed to donate their labor, time and money to build their own “Italian parish” in a Catholic city then dominated top to bottom by the Boston Irish.

Now, nearly a century later, when scandal reared its ugly head and church properties were being sold to developers to be converted into condos, the faithful parishioners at Sacred Heart in Boston’s North End and the parishioners at Mt. Carmel in Boston’s East End said the Italian equivalent of “Oh, no we won’t go” and they are still there! Frankly it has not been easy and any donations would be most welcome.

Our Lady of Mount Carmel Church (in East Boston) is one of five churches in the Boston Archdiocese whose parishioners are resisting orders to close. The other four churches are in the nearby Massachusetts cities of Framingham, Wellesley, Sci*tuate, and Everett. The Our Lady of Mount Carmel Church has been occupied by parishioners since October 12, 2004, the day of its closing Mass, marking the longest such occupation in the history of the Roman Catholic Church in America.

Our Lady of Mount Carmel is a church and parish located in a predominantly Italian neighborhood of East Boston, Massachusetts. The church was built in 1905 and was a focal point of the local Italian American community until it was ordered shut down by the Archdiocese of Boston in October 2004. The East Boston Church vigil is the first to reach its fourth anniversary.

Many of the vigil’s followers are long-time, dedicated parishioners, like Lorenzo Grasso, a mechanical engineer and senior technical writer, whose family has been part of the church since his youth more than 40 years ago. According to Lorenzo Grasso, Vice President of the Our Lady of Mount Carmel Survivors Committee, as the final Mass was being celebrated at the church on October 10, 2004, a statue of Our Lady of Mount Carmel fell to the ground from its pedestal in front of the altar.

According to a Boston Globe article dated October 11, 2004, “after 99 years of feasts, funerals, weddings, and baptisms, parishioners who went to the final Mass at Our Lady of Mount Carmel Church in East Boston declared that they had witnessed a miracle. The church’s statue of the Virgin Mary, which stood in front of the altar, tipped over suddenly and thudded to the floor after Mass, seemingly unmolested by human hands, parishioners said.

Trembling and weeping, they called it a sign from God protesting the Boston Archdiocese’s decision to close their church, part of the lifeblood of the working class, Italian American neighborhood since 1905. “This is a miracle!” Gerry Costa exclaimed after parishioners righted the 5-foot statue, which was missing a few pieces from its back. “Miracles do happen, and this is a miracle. Viva la Madonna!”

The conclusion to the East Boston church’s final Mass in Italian boiled with pain, anger, and hope, a tumult of emotions engulfing many parishes in the Archdiocese as the process of closing 82 parishes continues.” Since that final Mass over four years ago, Mr. Grasso, Vice President of the Survivors Committee and also a Eucharistic minister, has continued to offer a weekly service delivered both in Italian and English to the vigil followers that continue to attend the church.

This exemplifies the tremendous passion, dedication and perseverance of Mr. Grasso and these devoted vigil followers. Although the prayer service is not a Mass, it is devoutly delivered by Mr. Grasso and meets in a sense the obligation of attending Mass, because although the consecration of the host does not occur at the prayer service in the church, the Holy Eucharist is distributed through hosts that have been consecrated by necessarily anonymous but sympathetic members of the clergy from neighboring parishes…