Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
Kearney-
I hope you never have to move and join a new parish.
I hope you never have to move and join a new parish.
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O
Orogeny
Guest
So you deny that the bishop has the authority to close parishes? That the bishop works for us in an employer/employee relationship?
If you do, which would you chose?
Peace
Tim
Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
Tim-
Kearney doesn’t seem to have an understanding of what being a Catholic entails. The topic was St. Stan’s in St. Louis. She seems to be a member of an Italian congregation which is not in union with the Bishop of Rome, and therefore in schism. She set up a false dichotomy that she cannot be Italian and belong to the larger universal Catholic Church, which is not based on ethnicity. The word Catholic means universal. The people who attended the Polish church in St. Louis did that too. They became a Polish church is schism with Rome. Those who wanted to remain in communion with Rome and still attend Polish mass were given another beautiful old church, St. Agatha’s, and were provided with a Polish priest. They have a community center there where they prepare sausages and Polish meals after mass. I’ve been to mass there. They have signs all over, “We support Archbishop Burke” “We love Archbishop Burke”
Ironically, St Stan’s is now anything but Polish. Since they were in schism, other people began attending, gays and lesbians, divorced and remarried Catholics were allowed communion. When some of the board members and parishioners began seeing this trend, they appealed to the Archbishop to help them get their parish back in line with the Catholic Church. Unfortunately, it was too late, the Board and the parish were now taken over by non Catholics. Most of them don’t identify the Polish community. The parish voted not to come under the auspices of the bishop because the members weren’t Catholics anymore.
So the original Polish people who built St Stan’s and had kept the parish alive in an extremely derelict section of the city, are now disenfranchised and were not allowed to vote.
They are now suing in court to get their church back.
K
Kearney
Guest
First of all I’m a HE, not a she.
Secondly, you jump to many unwarranted conclusions and promote much rhetoric against me simply because I disagree with the decision of some bishops to close down ethnic parishes which have served their faithful for centuries.
Your rhetoric sounds ironically like the same stuff people get from the bishops who justify closing their parishes. We are deluded fools who “cling” to an outmoded identity and we won’t get “with it” and conform our lives to the bishops every decree (After all, our very existence as Catholics is to serve the hierarchies every whim, sort of like worker ants obeying their queen. You must either be a crazy convert or wide eyed idealist to fall for that rhetoric (After all only a convert would hold such a rosy colored view of the leadership of our Church). Yes,we are members of the universal Church, but we still have our own unique identies based on our local cultures and traditions. To be Catholic does not mean that we must be absorbed into an all encompassing monolith which sucks away our identities and forces us to loose our sense of self and memory. That is not true Catholicism, but the fanatical ranting’s of a reactionary mind.
Also, where did you ever get the idea that I attend an Italian church which isn’t in communion with Rome? I don’t go to Mount Carmel Church in East Boston, but I sympathize with their plight. Neither have the parishioners of Mount Carmel parish broke with Rome and their archbishop, they merely occupy the church and refuse to leave because it is their church, not the bishops. Their ancestors built it to serve their communities needs, not to exist and disperse at the whims of a bishop.
Also, where did you ever get the idea that I attend an Italian church which isn’t in communion with Rome? I don’t go to Mount Carmel Church in East Boston, but I sympathize with their plight. Neither have the parishioners of Mount Carmel parish broke with Rome and their archbishop, they merely occupy the church and refuse to leave because it is their church, not the bishops. Their ancestors built it to serve their communties needs, not to exist and disperse at the whims of a bishop.
Secondly, you jump to many unwarranted conclusions and promote much rhetoric against me simply because I disagree with the decision of some bishops to close down ethnic parishes which have served their faithful for centuries.
Your rhetoric sounds ironically like the same stuff people get from the bishops who justify closing their parishes. We are deluded fools who “cling” to an outmoded identity and we won’t get “with it” and conform our lives to the bishops every decree (After all, our very existence as Catholics is to serve the hierarchies every whim, sort of like worker ants obeying their queen. You must either be a crazy convert or wide eyed idealist to fall for that rhetoric (After all only a convert would hold such a rosy colored view of the leadership of our Church). Yes,we are members of the universal Church, but we still have our own unique identies based on our local cultures and traditions. To be Catholic does not mean that we must be absorbed into an all encompassing monolith which sucks away our identities and forces us to loose our sense of self and memory. That is not true Catholicism, but the fanatical ranting’s of a reactionary mind.
Also, where did you ever get the idea that I attend an Italian church which isn’t in communion with Rome? I don’t go to Mount Carmel Church in East Boston, but I sympathize with their plight. Neither have the parishioners of Mount Carmel parish broke with Rome and their archbishop, they merely occupy the church and refuse to leave because it is their church, not the bishops. Their ancestors built it to serve their communities needs, not to exist and disperse at the whims of a bishop.
Also, where did you ever get the idea that I attend an Italian church which isn’t in communion with Rome? I don’t go to Mount Carmel Church in East Boston, but I sympathize with their plight. Neither have the parishioners of Mount Carmel parish broke with Rome and their archbishop, they merely occupy the church and refuse to leave because it is their church, not the bishops. Their ancestors built it to serve their communties needs, not to exist and disperse at the whims of a bishop.
S
scipio337
Guest
On Lindell? I had no idea it is considered “liberal”.
A
ALLGIRLS
Guest
I don’t know if it is anymore (it’s been 21 years since I graduated!
), but when I was there we had a very liberal sister as principal, and many of the religious (which weren’t terribly many, by that time, but we had maybe a dozen) were as well. One “came out” years later and left her order. My algebra teacher was also a lesbian. One of the 3 priests who taught there was a VERY “flamboyant” dancer. I heard at my h.s. reunion last year that he’s left the priesthood, now too. There was a Planned Parenthood a couple blocks away that everybody got their birth control from (that didn’t work for everybody, and several girls, including me, I’m ashamed to say, got pregnant and had babies before graduation. I know a couple got pregnant and had abortions as well 
). Our principal actually ran off a pro-lifer trying to hand us literature after school in front of the building one afternoon. When discussing it the next day, many of the students happily stated “yeah, Sr. Sandra won’t put up with that anti-choice nonsense!” Of course, at the time, I’d already lapsed and was living a pretty heathen life, so it didn’t bother me at all. It was only years later (when I returned full fledge to the Faith, thanks in part to CA 
) that I realized how duped I’d been. I just had my 20th reunion last year, and I think I was the only one actually practicing the faith. One woman, when posting pictures from the event on Facebook, had a picture of the classroom where we had religion as sophomores, with the caption “Fr. Gene’s religion class, where I lost my religion.” I sincerely pray it’s better now, for the sake of the current students.In Christ,
Ellen
K
Kearney
Guest
That sounds a lot like what happened to a friend of mine. He went to Loyola in Chicago (Which is liberal as you can get) and ended up becoming an agnostic. He claims that it was because of all the science he studied, but I suspect that the Jesuits and their liberal tenancies may have played into it too (He was friends with number of them, including an Episcopal priest who taught “Christo-centric” prayer there).I don’t know if it is anymore (it’s been 21 years since I graduated!
In Christ,
Ellen
Come to think of it, ALLGIRLS story sounds an awful lot likes the stories of almost everyone I’ve ever talked to or known who went to a Catholic college, they all become secular agnostics after graduation. It’s a sad, sad, state of affairs.
Some people calim that if the Catholic schools became more conservative then these kind of problems would not occur. I’m a little too distrustful of human nature to completely buy into that, but maybe a little orthodoxy would tempor the crass liberalism and hedonism of todays Catholic youth?
S
SwizzleStick
Guest
I don’t know if it is anymore (it’s been 21 years since I graduated!
In Christ,
Ellen
Yikes, I hope that isn’t the case still today. I have a very conservative friend who accepted a teaching job there last year. One benefit of the job is that her daughter attends tuition-free, so that is, of course, where her daughter goes to school. Also, my own daughter has a close friend who just started there this year. I sure hope things have improved.
Happily, Cor Jesu seems to actually be a Catholic high school that sticks to actual Catholic Church teachings.I must have you confused with a Cor Jesu graduate.
S
scipio337
Guest
I don’t know if it is anymore (it’s been 21 years since I graduated!
In Christ,
Ellen
My daughter started kindergarten last week. Sounds like I’ll be looking to St. Joseph’s or Cor Jesu in the future!
Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
It is. The nuns still wear habits. They are a very spirited and joyful bunch. Unfortunately my daughter chose to go to Nerinx.
I didn’t allow it, but my ex-husband sneeked the deposit in. He promised to pay 100% of the tuition instead of the 50% we agreed on for all the other tuitions. He was shocked and mad when I held him to it.Interestingly, my daughter used to wonder why the were being so pc, when after all, it was a Catholic school. I held my mouth shut. One day she’ll figure out what being Catholic really is, when she goes from thinking I know nothing, to being amazed at how smart I really am.
Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
If you can afford it by then. Tuition this year is $10,000 something, plus books, plus computer.
My daughter started kindergarten last week. Sounds like I’ll be looking to St. Joseph’s or Cor Jesu in the future!
A
ALLGIRLS
Guest
I think it makes a difference if it’s a private school versus a diocesan school (Rosati-Kain is the only single sex diocesan school in the Archdiocese). I think private schools, as they are by definition started and run by specific orders, tend to be as liberal or orthodox as the order is. Since Rosati’s not affliiated with a specific religious order, our Sisters came from different ones, so we had a few habit wearing orthodox (mostly a lot older), and some “street clothes” wearing liberals. I’m sure some of the lay teachers were faithful to church teaching, while others weren’t (a couple weren’t even Catholic). But the overall atmosphere of the school when I was there was decidely liberal.
In Christ,
Ellen
In Christ,
Ellen
B
Beau_Ouiville
Guest
Well, that’s one of the problems. Catholicism in the US was truly an ‘ethnic’ religion.
I grew up in a town of less than 200,000 but there was an Italian church, an Irish church, a Polish church and a Slovak church, each with their own school. Now ethnic identification is far less distinct and the children of such parishes have all been thrown together in the suburbs.
So there are large, beautiful churches which require constant upkeep and which also have far fewer parishioners. I really feel sorry for the folks who have attended a particular church for generations, but some parishes are just not economically viable. I also appreciate the ethnic names I see as donors to the construction of the church in my current parish.
So, with these money disagreements, I hope they can be solved without a parish revolting against the authority of the head of the diocese.
R
Roy5
Guest
Three quick thoughts, perhaps without sufficient background information and subject to change if the facts merit it.
- I can understand why a parish with a huge bank account raised by its laity is hesitant to turn those funds over to the diocese, especially if they think the money is going to be used to pay for the conduct of reprobate and predatory priests.
- I don’t know all that much about Archbishop Burke, but what little I know has led me to the conclusion that he is one of the most rigid of those in the hierarchy. Isn’t he one of those who would refuse to give communion to a Kerry or a Kennedy or any other Catholic who opposed abortion personally but may have decided not to make it a federal crime? Some of them reason, as Obama seems to, that it’s better to work toward having abortion rare and safe rather than forcing it underground where it so often meant death for both mother and baby. Okay, we may not agree, but it’s not a totally wild position to tale…
Code:
3. A strong priest standing up to a strong Archbishop. Probably if there were a differenjt priest and/or a different Archbishop some understanding could be worked out. Pig-headedness in the church can perhaps even be more reprehensible than elsewhere. The clergy should be able to communicate with greater amiability.
In general, I favor more democracy in parishes and a less dictatorial hierarchy. Maybe American democracy has had too great an influence upon me???
R
Roy5
Guest
Three quick thoughts, perhaps without sufficient background information and subject to change if the facts merit it.
- I can understand why a parish with a huge bank account raised by its laity is hesitant to turn those funds over to the diocese, especially if they think the money is going to be used to pay for the conduct of reprobate and predatory priests.
- I don’t know all that much about Archbishop Burke, but what little I know has led me to the conclusion that he is one of the most rigid of those in the hierarchy. Isn’t he one of those who would refuse to give communion to a Kerry or a Kennedy or any other Catholic who opposed abortion personally but may have decided not to make it a federal crime? Some of them reason, as Obama seems to, that it’s better to work toward having abortion rare and safe rather than forcing it underground where it so often meant death for both mother and baby. Okay, we may not agree, but it’s not a totally wild position to tale…
Code:
3. A strong priest standing up to a strong Archbishop. Probably if there were a differenjt priest and/or a different Archbishop some understanding could be worked out. Pig-headedness in the church can perhaps even be more reprehensible than elsewhere. The clergy should be able to communicate with greater amiability.
In general, I favor more democracy in parishes and a less dictatorial hierarchy. Maybe American democracy has had too great an influence upon me???
Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
The Archdiocese wasn’t asking for money. They just wanted to audit it, like they do all the parishes.
''nuff said. He is a very kind, intelligent and pastoral leader…
The priest stood up to the Pope and was defrocked.
Perhaps. I don’t remember Jesus taking up a popular vote on his teachings.
S
SwizzleStick
Guest
Thanks for the affirmation. It does my heart good.
I’d heard that Nerinx was very liberal, so we steered clear of it.…Unfortunately my daughter chose to go to Nerinx.
Interestingly, my daughter used to wonder why the were being so pc, when after all, it was a Catholic school. I held my mouth shut. One day she’ll figure out what being Catholic really is, when she goes from thinking I know nothing, to being amazed at how smart I really am.
I am hopeful that your daughter will one day figure things out with the help of her amazingly smart Mom.
Now, back to the thread about Marek Boguslaw (yep, that is his name) Bozek.
B
Beau_Ouiville
Guest
To each his own. I don’t find a thing wrong with liberal Catholic schools.
E
estesbob
Guest
I believe liberal Catholic schools is an oxymoron
S
SwizzleStick
Guest
Yes, to each his own, Beau. I’m sure most folks who currently attend St. Stanislaus do not find anything wrong with any of the liberal teachings of Bozek either. However, what he is peddling is quite contrary to many of the teachings of the Catholic Church. The same holds true for some liberal schools that have the word “Catholic” in their name. I think St. Stanislaus held on to the name “Catholic” for quite a while too, though it had ceased to be a Catholic parish.
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