Renowned epidemiologist sees 'massive disinformation campaign' against hydroxychloroquine

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Just because the Indians think ivermectin is working better, does not make hydroxychloroquine without a place in corona virus treatment.
Chief Medical Officer Dr RP Singh stated There were a lot of issues with HCQ. Therefore, we have now been instructed to instead use Ivermectin as per the prescribed doses.”
By the way. You will not see ivermectin in broad usage in America for part of the same reason.

I am actually quite good with physicians using ivermectin for treatment against corona virus where THEY see that indicated for off-label use, just as hydroxychloroquine is reasonable for off-label usage in select patients too.

Do you know WHY hydroxychloroquine at least makes sense in select individuals according to the physiology?

Do you know the physiologic mechanism as to WHY ivermectin has shown benefit (that too makes sense but for different reasons) on a BROADER patient base than hydroxychloroquine?
I don’t have any formal medical training and would not venture to recommend any drugs. That is the point of my objection to Trump and other non experts, dismissing the proper medical experts recommendations and warnings in favor of their own recommendations.
All three countries have abandoned HCQ.
“China has advised against the use of hydroxychloroquine in treating coronavirus patients…”
I am still waiting for you to explain how “Trump” was supposed to get rich off of one generic drug in one of his mutual funds too.
I cited the money trail and if you think it isn’t about profiteering, ok. But there’s plenty of evidence that profiteers routinely use “nonprofits” as a front for their own financial gains.

"A conservative “dark money” group that received funding from the pharmaceutical industry’s largest trade organization pushed President Donald Trump to use unproven antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 and make it more widely available.

One of Trump’s most influential supporters, Home Depot co-founder Bernard Marcus, founded the Job Creators Network in 2011. Marcus gave $7 million to outside groups supporting Trump’s 2016 presidential run. He also gave $100,000 to the pro-Trump super PAC America First Action in 2018 to further support Trump’s second presidential bid and plans to spend even more to support Trump’s reelection."


 
No he didn’t.

He gave two examples of studies that were shut down.
I gave two links to the conclusions that the NIH has come to regarding HCQ. Is was not just the shutting down of two studies. It was the reasons for which the studies were shut down. It was not working.
 
I’m still trying to figure out why some people are so determined to have HCQ be used for Covid? Ivermectin is showing a better response and also have ongoing studies. Since multiple studies have shown only very slight improvements at best and early ivermectin studies show more promise, why stick to HCQ like glue? It makes me also wonder if there is some profit motive behind HCQ that isn’t with ivermectin? Or, is it just a fear that Trump spoke too soon?
 
Motherwit . . .
I don’t have any formal medical training and would not venture to recommend any drugs.
Yet you have no qualms about recomending AGAINST hydroxychloroquine.

But the the fact of the matter is, I have never asked you to recomend any treatment.

I have asked you about the physiologic mechanism.

And you don’t need formal medical training for that.

You can do that off of a high school physiology course.

Or get the physiology from the internet.

I have laid it out here several times.

If hydroxychloroquine is so terrible, what business has it been approved for, for the last almost 50 years and in widespread use?

I talked to an optometrist friend of mine who follows retina evaluations on many people on hydroxychloroquine who have to take it daily over many years.

He has never seen an eye complication with it yet. Not one.

Like I said. I am still waiting for you to tell me about how you can make all this alleged huge profit off of a generic drug that one mutual fund in your portfolio has.
 
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PattyIt . . .
I’m still trying to figure out why some people are so determined to have HCQ be used for Covid?
Name one.

I see a lot of people who say, just let the physicians and patients decide for themselves.

I see NOBODY “determined to have HCQ be used for Covid”, at least here on CAF.

Why not discuss the physiologic mechanism, and it will be self-explanatory WHY there are those out there that MAY want to use it.
Ivermectin is showing a better response and also have ongoing studies. Since multiple studies have shown only very slight improvements at best and early ivermectin studies show more promise, why stick to HCQ like glue?
Ivermectin usage would be great too.

Here is going to be the issues with ivermectin (which actually has anti-viral properties in clinical doses apparently).

Against ivermectin is . . .

It is ALSO generic and will financially compete (probably quite easily since it is so cheap) against new potentially patentable medications and (rushed) vaccines.

The thing it has going for it, is it sounds very effectie and since it has no high profile “Trump approbation” yet,
the left (fortunately) won’t get as unhinged as they do about anything “Trump”.

But the left will support big pharma if the mainstream media tells them to. Even against ivermectin. We will see this I predict.

But you watch. There will be sudden hysterical roadblocks put up to ivermectin usage (that the medical community also has extensive experience with) too.
 
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LeafByNiggle . . .
I gave two links to the conclusions that the NIH has come to regarding HCQ. Is was not just the shutting down of two studies. It was the reasons for which the studies were shut down. It was not working.
I think you need to go back and read your own articles.

From your own NIH.gov article . . .
The blinded, placebo-controlled randomized clinical trial aimed to enroll more than 500 adults who are currently hospitalized . . .
Bold mine.

Go back and read my comments about cohorts and the opinions of the clinicians.

Do you see what is wrong with the article you posted?

From your own other NIH bulletin article . . .
This action was taken because NIAID, the study leadership and the independent data and safety monitoring board (DSMB) overseeing the trial determined that the rate of participant enrollment has been inadequate for the trial to meet its objectives in a timely manner. No safety concerns were associated with the trial.
On June 15, FDA revoked an Emergency Use Authorization(link is external) that had allowed hydroxychloroquine and the related drug chloroquine to be prescribed to hospitalized adolescents and adults with COVID-19. This revocation does not apply to clinical trials and is specific to hospitalized individuals rather than outpatients.
This is just sad to watch.
 
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I see NOBODY “determined to have HCQ be used for Covid”, at least here on CAF.
You don’t see yourself in this comment? Why continually start threads on it?
Why not discuss the physiologic mechanism, and it will be self-explanatory WHY there are those out there that MAY want to use it.
I know perfectly well the bio mechanism of both. I also know that just because some drug sounds like it ought to work, doesn’t mean it does. We’re pretty complex creatures.

I just feel that since studies are still ongoing and ivermectin seems to be rising, we just let the scientists finish their work rather than obsess over every article about HCQ. You seem to have a different agenda.
 
LeafByNiggle . . .
I gave two links to the conclusions that the NIH has come to regarding HCQ. Is was not just the shutting down of two studies. It was the reasons for which the studies were shut down. It was not working.
The article also says:
A data and safety monitoring board (DSMB) met late Friday and determined that while there was no harm, the study drug was very unlikely to be beneficial to hospitalized patients with COVID-19.
From your own other NIH bulletin article . . .
This action was taken because NIAID, the study leadership and the independent data and safety monitoring board (DSMB) overseeing the trial determined that the rate of participant enrollment has been inadequate for the trial to meet its objectives in a timely manner. No safety concerns were associated with the trial.
The article also says:
Although recent research suggests that hydroxychloroquine may not be an effective treatment for patients hospitalized with COVID-19, the question of whether it offers benefit when given early in the course of the disease remains unanswered.
which sort of supports your point, but not really because the question mentioned remains unanswered.
 
PattyIt . . .
You don’t see yourself in this comment?
No. And I don’t appreciate you personalizing a news subject to me.
Why continually start threads on it?
Two reasons.

1 It is “continually” in the news. (That means it is newsworthy. Isn’t that part if the reason we are all here?)
  1. It is fascinating to me to see the leftist hystrionics like I have never seen before over this.
Some of this has to do with Trump’s favorable comments. (And we want to be against anything that Trump is for. Even if it is irrational. So it serves as a pedagogy for the leftist mindset nationally.)

This reaction is like none I have seen before.

Other aspects include big pharma not wanting this to be successful.

Why not?

Because it has a very profitable niche that other things can fill. But there is no significant profit to be made on an inexpensive old generic drug that has efficacy in off-label usage.

What we are seeing is a leftist polticization of medicine over patient care. And that is very instructive to readers.
 
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No. And I don’t appreciate you personalizing a news subject to me.
I apologize. In my defense, it seems that way at times but I withdraw the question.

As for continually seeing it in the news? Only on right leaning media. I read both and honestly, on left leaning I’ve not heard a peep in weeks. About Covid, yes, but not about HCQ. The left seems to have dropped that topic entirely (I’m sure you can find one that does still talk about it).

Actually, most right leaning news doesn’t seem to have it front and center like they did in the past. I’ll look again when on my Mac.

I’m not even going to comment on the left getting hysterical. I see both sides getting hysterical over the silliest things anyway. I’ll stay in my happy middle.
 
Motherwit . . .
I don’t have any formal medical training and would not venture to recommend any drugs.
I’m not ‘recommending’ for or against HCQ. I’m arguing for the prudence to follow the official expert organizations which recommend for or against a drug and not following non experts whose agenda is not the wellbeing of patients.
I have asked you about the physiologic mechanism.

And you don’t need formal medical training for that.

You can do that off of a high school physiology course.

Or get the physiology from the internet.

I have laid it out here several times.
I don’t believe reading the internet in any way qualifies me to contribute to the debate about the safety of drugs.
If hydroxychloroquine is so terrible, what business has it been approved for, for the last almost 50 years and in widespread use?
There are probably no alternatives for the treatment of lupus and rheumatoid arthritis.
I talked to an optometrist friend of mine who follows retina evaluations on many people on hydroxychloroquine who have to take it daily over many years.

He has never seen an eye complication with it yet. Not one.
And yet it is one of the known risks the experts say. Plaquenil Side Effects on Your Eyes and Vision
Like I said. I am still waiting for you to tell me about how you can make all this alleged huge profit off of a generic drug that one mutual fund in your portfolio has.
I’ve given you the information and you don’t accept it.
 
LeafByNiggle . . .
A data and safety monitoring board (DSMB) met late Friday and determined that while there was no harm, the study drug was very unlikely to be beneficial to hospitalized patients with COVID-19.
Bold mine.

I agree with that statement by the way.

Where have you been Leaf?

We have been discussing this for months.

“Hospitalized patients” are too late.
But you don’t know that because you have allowed Google and social media to gag physicians attempting to explain it to us.

But fear not.

The information is out there anyway.

WHY do you think I have been critical here on CAF regarding cohort selection in so many of these (built-in biased) corona virus studies?

What is the physiology of a corona virus infection?

Once you answer these two questions (what is the physiology, and WHY would proper cohort selection include EARLY infection based upon tgat physiologic model), you will be able to rebut your own point.

And this will be consistent with just what the doctors that have successfully used hydroxychloroquine have been telling us. You know, the same doctors who actually treat patients and get their information banned anyway or at least shadow banned by Google and social media?

I have put up the information here MANY times but it does not seem to be internalized, so instead of telling you, I am now asking you (and then I will use your own answers to rebut your own criticisms).
 
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PattyIt . . .
I apologize.
Hey. No worries. I was not trying to milk an apology.

I just don’t want a news article to morph into being about me. It is a distraction for everyone.
 
Motherwit . . .
I’m arguing for the prudence to follow the official expert organizations . . .
I disagree.

Citing the Daily Beast and coming up with bizarre claims is not going to cut it.

Either will citing studies that involved wrong cohorts.
(At this point I am beginning to wonder if they are WRONG cohorts by design. The ohysiology isn’t that hard. And it is well-known (some of it at least).

And it correlates just with what the doctors who are being silenced have been telling the world.

Do you know what the physiology is Motherwit?

Do you want to know? (Because if you really want the information, I will lay it all out again for your behalf, or at least link to where I have posted the physiology before).
 
Motherwit . . .
And yet it is one of the known risks the experts say. Plaquenil Side Effects on Your Eyes and Vision
Motherwit. I can’t belive you are attempting to use the eye argument against treating corona virus patients.

This is yet again you fighting against this.

The eye issues are irrelevant.

Why?

Because those are long-term rare complications.

Do you understand that corona virus patients are not on hydroxychloroquine “long term”??

My opthalmologist friend tells me the hydroxychloroquine patients see him once a year for eye check ups related to hydroxychloroquine usage.

How many patients WORLDWIDE do you think are having eye issues from a seven day course of hydroxychloroquine Motherwit?
 
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Either will citing studies that involved wrong cohorts.
(At this point I am beginning to wonder if they are WRONG cohorts by design. The ohysiology isn’t that hard. And it is well-known (some of it at least).

And it correlates just with what the doctors who are being silenced have been telling the world.
The way I’m designed and have successfully navigated my and my families health needs over 60 odd years, is to follow proven treatment recommended by the official experts. There have been times where someone has very enthusiastically pushed alternative remedies or experimental treatments for such and such, but inevitably they never live up to their hype and were either sourced in unrealistic hopes in magic cures or by unscrupulous profiteers. There is nothing new under the sun.
Motherwit. I can’t belive you are attempting to use the eye argument against treating corona virus patients.
I’m not. You brought up eyes saying your friend the optometrist had never seen a case of eye damage. I responded that it is one of the risks of HCQ according to the experts.
 
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Motherwit . . .
The way I’m designed and have successfully navigated my and my families health needs over 60 odd years, is to follow proven treatment . . .
But I never asked about you or your family with regards to your “health needs”.

Concerning “proven treatement” this is irrlevant too.

Why?

Because corona virus (the COVID-19 type) is a NEW virus (that’s WHY they call it “novel” corona virus sometimes).

By definition, you don’t have a chance to “prove” much of anything.

As Chesterton would say . . .
You can’t grow a beard in a fit of passion
So you use the best of what you currently have, while searching for ways to improve.

Not impede doctors from social media
and put up obstacles from treating their patients and
(with the pro-abort national media silent about)
getting between decisions made between a woman with corona virus and her doctor . . .
. . . then run around pretending you
(not “you” personally. I am generalizing about the leftist pro-abort media here)
are against people getting between a woman and her doctor (when all you REALLY want is more murdering of innocents or at least legalization of this).
 
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WHY do you think I have been critical here on CAF regarding cohort selection in so many of these (built-in biased) corona virus studies?

What is the physiology of a corona virus infection?

Once you answer these two questions
It is not up to me to answer for you as to why you have been critical. As for the second question, that is question best put to a medical specialist, so I will pass on that one too.
And this will be consistent with just what the doctors that have successfully used hydroxychloroquine have been telling us.
How many doctors, exactly, have been telling you (or “us” if you will) that HCQ is a successful treatment for covid? There must be at least 10,000 doctors in the US that are involved in the front-line treatment of covid-19. Did you survey a good fraction of them, like say 10% ? That would be 1,000 randomly chosen covid doctors. Or do you have a much smaller group that was not randomly chosen, but was chosen specifically to include only those who are pro-HCQ? I want to know how you know what front-line doctors think.
 
Concerning “proven treatement” this is irrlevant too.

Why?

Because corona virus (the COVID-19 type) is a NEW virus (that’s WHY they call it “novel” corona virus sometimes).

By definition, you don’t have a chance to “prove” much of anything.
The way it’s done in the civilized world is that the experts, the scientists, the medical teams the FDA and all the necessary regulatory bodies, follow a process for the sake of best treatment outcomes for the community. Non experts with other agenda’s putting pressure on those bodies, compromises the integrity of the whole process. I honestly don’t know who you are going to convince that the trials and studies of official regulated medical bodies globally, use ‘the wrong cohorts’ but that maverick outlying politically involved doctors are more knowledgeable and trustworthy?
So you use the best of what you currently have, while searching for ways to improve.

Not impede doctors from social media
and put up obstacles from treating their patients and
(with the pro-abort national media silent about)
getting between decisions made between a woman with corona virus and her doctor . . .
. . . then run around pretending you
(not “you” personally. I am generalizing about the leftist pro-abort media here)
are against people getting between a woman and her doctor (when all you REALLY want is more murdering of innocents or at least legalization of this).
Trump did something I’ve never seen happen before. That is, publicize a drug that had no official approval for Covid and make it into a political football between citizens who have no expertize and no place in that process. It’s pretty terrifying to realize that this sort of manipulation can take place in a civilized country that undermines the generations of safeguards erected to keep people safe.
 
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