Report: "British Court In Transgender Case: Bible Belief Is ‘Incompatible With Human Dignity’."

[Bruised_Reed]

Women and children aren’t safe from predators now. Continuing to allow people who are transgender to use the same restrooms as everyone else doesn’t make us less safe.

Note that people who are trans have been using the same restrooms as you all this time.

 

[pnewton]

After reading the case, it looks more like a megalomaniac boss on a power trip likes to persecute people of faith. This is always a danger. This does highlight one danger of an NHC without some sort of civil service protection, like other government employees have.

On the other hand, the judge was simply using his power to promote his views. Lots of judges are enamored of their own power.

 

[MikeInVA]

Basic human kindness says that we need to allow places for people to use the toilet, regardless of they way that person is dressed.

It is not unkind to expect a man, regardless of how he is dressed, to use the mens room.

 

[De_Maria]

Note that people who are trans have been using the same restrooms as you all this time.

I’m a man.

Women and children aren’t safe from predators now.

So, you want to make them even less safe.

Continuing to allow people who are transgender to use the same restrooms as everyone else doesn’t make us less safe.

It makes women and children, less safe. Let them use their own restrooms.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I’m a man.

So? And why do people exclude transmen?

So, you want to make them even less safe.

That hasn’t borne out in places where transpersons have the legal right to use the restroom that corresponds with their gender identity.

What has happened is cisgender people following other cisgender people into restroom questioning their gender, verbally abusing them; also, transgender persons have been physically assaulted when they used the restroom.

Who’s less safe now?

It makes women and children, less safe. Let them use their own restrooms.

It doesn’t. Trans people have been using restrooms all this time without women and children being less safe.

 

[MikeInVA]

And why do people exclude transmen?

What is a transman? It is a man who thinks he’s a woman, or a woman who thinks she’s a man?

 

[De_Maria]

De_Maria:

I’m a man.

So? And why do people exclude transmen?

In this discussion? Because a woman is hardly likely to overpower a man.

That hasn’t borne out in places where transpersons have the legal right to use the restroom that corresponds with their gender identity.

So, you say. But this is something new and has not had time to be studied.

What has happened is cisgender people following other cisgender people into restroom questioning their gender, verbally abusing them; also, transgender persons have been physically assaulted when they used the restroom.

So, you’re arguing in favor of them having their own restrooms.

Who’s less safe now?

Again, an argument for them having their own restrooms.

It doesn’t.

It does.

Trans people have been using restrooms all this time without women and children being less safe.

You have misunderstood what I said. Read the message to which you responded initially. Men dressed as women will be able to take advantage of women. They will have every right to don a dress and claim to be women, because all it takes now is a man claiming to be a woman. The perfect alibi to stalk a woman right into the restroom.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

In this discussion? Because a woman is hardly likely to overpower a man.

The transwomen who have been attacked by cisgendered women beg to differ.

So, you say. But this is something new and has not had time to be studied.

But it isn’t new. You are just now hearing about it. Transgender people have been around forever and have used the restroom that matches their gender identity since there have been separate restrooms (gendered restrooms are not a thing everywhere).

So, you’re arguing in favor of them having their own restrooms.

Nope. I think transgender people should be able to safely use the restroom that is inline with their gender identity.

Men dressed as women will be able to take advantage of women.

More often it is men dressed as men do this.

They will have every right to don a dress and claim to be women, because all it takes now is a man claiming to be a woman. hey will have every right to don a dress and claim to be women, because all it takes now is a man claiming to be a woman. The perfect alibi to stalk a woman right into the restroom.

Why aren’t there numerous attacks everywhere already? Nothing has been stopping predators from using this very obvious ploy already.

 

[De_Maria]

The transwomen who have been attacked by cisgendered women beg to differ.

Again, an argument for them having separate bathrooms.

But it isn’t new.

Yes, it’s new.

You are just now hearing about it. Transgender people have been around forever and have used the restroom that matches their gender identity

In secret.

since there have been separate restrooms (gendered restrooms are not a thing everywhere).

They have been my entire life.

Nope.

All the evidence you’ve given is for them to have their own restrooms. Unless you’re arguing that you want something forced on cisgendered people, against their will.

I think transgender people should be able to safely use the restroom that is inline with their gender identity.

So? I think everyone would be safer if transgendered people had their own restroom.

More often it is men dressed as men do this.

So? It still leaves open the opportunity for predators to take advantage of women by merely donning a dress.

Why aren’t there numerous attacks everywhere already? Nothing has been stopping predators from using this

Who knows. Maybe it hasn’t happened yet. But opening up that opportunity because it hasn’t happened yet is allowing the three bit rule for a pit bull. If it happens once, it is too many times. And those of you who advocate for this will simply sit back and say, “but, it isn’t our fault.”

very obvious ploy already.

Yeah, it’s very obvious. So, get a clue. Most crimes are crimes of opportunity. You’re offering up an opportunity from the safety of your couch. If it ever happens, you’ll turn around and say, “I never advocated for that!”

 

[Bithynian]

I have a friend in the UK who is an NHS doctor and has been following the case with some interest.

He linked me paragraphs 261-263 of the Employment Tribunal’s decision:

• 1. It is important given the public interest in this case that we make clear this case did not concern whether Dr Mackereth is a Christian and if that qualifies for protection under the Equality Act. That was never in dispute
• 1. Nor do we have any doubt that he also genuinely (and fervently) held the beliefs we set out in full at (6) or his entitlement to hold those beliefs.
• 1. What this case concerned is whether he was entitled to manifest those beliefs in the circumstances that applied here. He accepted that his beliefs meant that insofar as a service user was a transgender individual within the meaning of the EqA, that whilst he did not wish them to, his actions would cause offence and potentially breach the EqA. We find that if the service user also held a full gender recognition certificate Dr Mackereth’s position was that he would also potentially breach the GRA for the reasons we give above.

As my doctor friend (who is also a Catholic) opined: “the Equality Act doesn’t give him the right to call Catholics ‘Papists’ or Muslims ‘Mohammadeans’ either; not every single religious belief is protected under the Act.”

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Again, an argument for them having separate bathrooms.

Then, ideally, there would be single-user restroom, not restrooms with 2- 30 stalls. Eliminate violence, peeping, and theft that can happen with stalls.

Yes, it’s new.

No…people who have transitioned use the the restroom that fits their gender identity.

In secret.

Of course. I’m pretty discrete when I head to the restroom; I’m hoping no one notices, especially if I bring my purse because of “shark week” so yeah.

All the evidence you’ve given is for them to have their own restrooms. Unless you’re arguing that you want something forced on cisgendered people, against their will.

Nope. I think transgender people should use the restroom that is inline with their gender identity.

So? I think everyone would be safer if transgendered people had their own restroom.

Will it be truly accessible to them? Will it be located in an inconvenient spot, so they have to hunt for it? Will it be maintained so it is functional, clean (at least as clean as other restrooms)? Will is be accessible to people with disabilities, including wheelchair users?

Transgender, not transgendered.

So? It still leaves open the opportunity for predators to take advantage of women by merely donning a dress.

You mean, just like it has been since there have been public restrooms?

Who knows. Maybe it hasn’t happened yet. But opening up that opportunity because it hasn’t happened yet is allowing the three bit rule for a pit bull. If it happens once, it is too many times. And those of you who advocate for this will simply sit back and say, “but, it isn’t our fault.”

But it has happened. Cisgender men have dressed as women. But there hasn’t been a rash of sexual assaults in places where there are policies protecting transgender people allowing use of the restroom that fits their gender identity.

Yeah, it’s very obvious. So, get a clue. Most crimes are crimes of opportunity. You’re offering up an opportunity from the safety of your couch. If it ever happens, you’ll turn around and say, “I never advocated for that!”

The main risks toward women in public restrooms and locker rooms are from other women. In a small town near me (Pop. 900) a high school girl was charged with taking pictures of other girls while undressed. There was the case from a couple of years ago in which an ex-playboy bunny took pictures on Snapchat of another woman, and body shamed her.

You’re offering up an opportunity from the safety of your couch. If it ever happens, you’ll turn around and say, “I never advocated for that!”

Then those who commit those crimes, including those i mentioned above should be severely punished. Transgender people are not the enemy; they just want to pee.

 

[Hodos]

It seems to me that since the word dignity means being “worthy of respect,” the Court has its logic backwards. It is not the ideology of transgenderism that honors human dignity but Christianity that does so. Transgenderism assumes that the person suffering from gender dysphoria must do things such as drastically alter body chemistry and appearance in order to accept oneself and be acceptable to others. It basically says that the person has to do something to merit the full respect of others. Christianity on the other hand says that by virtue of God’s grace in creation and through his free declaration, that you are made in his image. Transgenderism assumes that there is a fundamental flaw in the biological reality of male and female, whereas Christianity says that God created man and woman and declared them very good. Christianity says that though we are flawed and sinful creatures, bound by sin and twisting the truth of God for a lie, that we have been redeemed from that sin through the precious blood of Christ, the Son of God. Transgenderism assumes you must earn dignity. Christianity assumes you have already received it, not by anything you have done or must still do, but simply as the passive recipient of God’s grace through Jesus Christ, our Lord.

 

[De_Maria]

Then, ideally, there would be single-user restroom, …

Besides the point. But not a bad idea.

No…

Yes.

Of course…

Glad we agree.

Nope. I think transgender people should use the restroom that is inline with their gender identity.

And I think they should have transgender restrooms.

Will it be truly accessible to them? …

Again, besides the point.

Transgender, not transgendered.

Either one. They are the ones who have decided to change their God given nature.

You mean, just like it has been since there have been public restrooms?

On the contrary, this would create a new situation easier for predators to exploit.

But it has happened. …

And we don’t want it to happen.

The main risks toward women in public restrooms and locker rooms are from other women…

And we don’t want that to add any other risks.

Then those who commit those crimes, including those i mentioned above should be severely punished. Transgender people are not the enemy; they just want to pee.

They can do so in their own restrooms.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

They can do so in their own restrooms

Where are those again?

Will it be truly accessible to them? …

No, it is not beside the point. If “transgender bathrooms” are built, if they are not accessible, clean, and in working order they are as good as no bathroom at all.

Have you paid attention to so-called accessible restrooms or stalls? I do. Some places don’t have them, others are a little bigger, but there’s no way a wheelchair can fit or turn.

What about changing tables in men’s restrooms? If businesses aren’t thoughtful enough to install one of those (they aren’t expensive) not sure how you think “transgender bathrooms” are realistic. So in the meantime I think we can manage by transgender persons using the restroom that is inline with their gender identity.

 

[De_Maria]

Where are those again?

That’s my point. They should have them.

No, it is not beside the point…

One thing at a time. Are you conceding that they should have their own restrooms?

Have you paid attention to so-called accessible restrooms or stalls? …

Some places have no bathrooms at all and some places have restrooms that are unusable by anyone. So, this is also besides the point.

What about changing tables…

Still besides the point. We all know the world is imperfect. Are you conceding that they should have their own restrooms? Yes or no?

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Then, ideally, there would be single-user restroom, not restrooms with 2- 30 stalls. Eliminate violence, peeping, and theft that can happen with stalls.

Aren’t those pretty common?

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Are you conceding that they should have their own restrooms? Yes or no?

Noooooope.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

They are becoming more common and they are standard at my workplace and at the new medical center near me but restaurants, stores, the cinema just have separate stalls and that have space where you can see underneath and can reach over and grab a bag if it’s hanging from a hook. One cinema has doors that go from floor to ceiling; I like those.

I’ve had favorite public restrooms since my 20s; which ones are cleanest, accessible, what-have-you. I have a favorite gas station restroom; it’s well heated in the winter.