Report: The Pronoun Wars: Professor Goes to Court After Being Punished for Refusing to Refer to Transgender Student By Preferred Pronoun

[Freddy]

Freddy:

as long as they didn’t infringe on my beliefs.

But what if the professor believes that a man is a man and a woman is a woman, and referring to a man as a woman is essentially tantamount to lying and giving in to a subjectivist viewpoint, to which is he morally opposed?

There was no indication that there wasn’t a medical problem here that the person was in the process of trying to address. I presume that you know these situations occur?

And you mentioned mental health. Maybe it is a case of mental health. There is no indication of that either, but if that was the problem then taking it upon oneself to ignore it and possibly exacerbate the problem by refusing to accede to a relatively simple demand is not a path I would recommend.

 

[Freddy]

HerCrazierHalf:

Perhaps it is time to sidestep the whole issue and make using gender neutral pronouns a thing. Though English doesn’t really have good singular gender neutral options. “They/their/etc” seems clumsy for a single person. “It” gets you into another level of trouble.

… cave to the whims of a few mentally ill persons.

That, my friend, is completely out of order. There can be genuine medical cases where gender is not firmly established and the people involved must go through a lot of pain and torment about their situation. To glibly class them as ‘mentally ill’ doesn’t reflect well on you.

 

[ReaderT]

Sometimes when you get a moment of perspective and clarity, you realise how absolutely crazy this stuff is. We’re living in upside down clown world and either pretending, or worse, believing, that it’s normal.

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[Dan123]

If I called you “Dog Dan” that would be a deception, correct?

Only if you’re doing so to deceive someone. If you’re doing so to respect me, then no.

 

[phil3]

There can be genuine medical cases where gender is not firmly established

This happens how often?

 

[ReaderT]

The foundation of reality as we know it is … pronouns?

It is one of the fundamental aspects of our humanity, to be sure.

At the same time, why can’t the professor just say what’s a biological fact without losing his whole career? They’re making it a hill to be killed on.

Let’s modify English accordingly. Makes everything easier.

I get that there are other languages where one word means “he”, “she”, and “it” all at the same time (Finnish has “on” and Chinese has “ta”), but it’d take a monolithic effort to change English in such a fundamental way. Language change isn’t easy or quick.

 

[Maximian]

In many languages this is not an issue.

But it is in English and speakers of English are entitled to speak their own language. To be prevented from doing so by a political faction is a form of cultural genocide.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

There can be genuine medical cases where gender is not firmly established

This happens how often?

The frequency is completely irrelevant. As are the specific medical details. What is relevant is that one shouldn’t be accusing people with a medical condition of being mentally ill.

 

[phil3]

I get that there are other languages where one word means “he”, “she”, and “it” all at the same time (Finnish has “on” and Chinese has “ta”), but it’d take a monolithic effort to change English in such a fundamental way. Language change isn’t easy or quick.

We can combine all three you can do Sheheit,sheithe, heitshe, hesheit itheshe or last but not least itshehe. Nope it needs to be one syllable. Maybe dex

 

[Freddy]

ReaderT:

I get that there are other languages where one word means “he”, “she”, and “it” all at the same time (Finnish has “on” and Chinese has “ta”), but it’d take a monolithic effort to change English in such a fundamental way. Language change isn’t easy or quick.

We can combine all three you can do Sheheit,sheithe, heitshe, hesheit itheshe or last but not least itshehe. Nope it needs to be one syllable. Maybe dex

Talking of Chinese pronouns and completely off topic, I tried to learn Cantonese when working in Hong Kong years ago. Failed miserably. I could order a beer and count and that was about it. At least, I thought I could. Playing darts with a Chinese colleague and he hit a rather poor 14. I called out the number in Cantonese and he and his mate doubled up in laughter. I had the right word but it seems my inflection wasn’t exactly right and what I called out across the bar was a rather crude colloquialism for a sex act.

 

[Kei]

There was no indication that there wasn’t a medical problem here that the person was in the process of trying to address. I presume that you know these situations occur?

If by, “medical situation,” you mean a physical condition where the student has both forms of genitalia then I do not think the term “transgender” would be used. However, as far as I am aware, there has never been a recorded case of someone with fully working opposite forms of genitalia. Typically one sex is more predominant.

Maybe it is a case of mental health. There is no indication of that either, but if that was the problem then taking it upon oneself to ignore it and possibly exacerbate the problem by refusing to accede to a relatively simple demand is not a path I would recommend.

If someone is trying to identify as the opposite gender, then it is likely either a fad (“transtrenders”, who do not really help the poor souls who are trans) or a mental condition typically referred to as gender dysphoria. Within the population of those with gender dysphoria there is a high number of incidence of depression and attempted suicide, whether one “transitions” or not. The surgery undertaken to transition is rather permanent (though you can try to reverse it, it’s never the same) and (to top it off) may be related to incidence of cancer.
It’s just a small thing. Saying a certain pronoun. But it indicates much more. People are probably not encouraged to look for better treatment options than a dangerous and apparently not very useful “therapy” that verifies one in his or her “delusion” (I feel this is a strong word with negative connotations; I don’t mean to be hurtful here) as being against the surgery is considered being antitrans and bigoted.

It’s all so messed up. A little action, indeed, but what it signifies is so much more…and I haven’t even mentioned the capitulation to the tyranny of relativism going on in this, my comment.

 

[phil3]

I disagree

 

[Freddy]

I disagree

Well, there you go. You’re ok with calling people who have a medical condition ‘mentally ill’.

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

You’re ok with calling people who have a medical condition ‘mentally ill’.

Does being mentally ill make a person less-than?

Is depression a mental illness?

Are depressed people less-than?

 

[JimG]

In response to another recent controversy an MD wrote this:

“Every few months I get suspended from Twitter for stating that “all transgenderism is mental illness,” which it clearly is. That sort of intolerance based on honesty and objective observation cannot be tolerated.”

Pat Conrad MD

 

[phil3]

If a person wants to be call he or her or what ever and isnt, that just too bad. How is this person going to handle life?

 

[Freddy]

My father-in-law has diabetes. Is he mentally ill? Would it make sense to class him as such?

 

[Freddy]

If a person wants to be call he or her or what ever and isnt, that just too bad. How is this person going to handle life?

Assuming that your forum name indicates that you are male, how would you handle it if every single person in all circumstances referred to you as a woman?

 

[ReaderT]

Assuming that your forum name indicates that you are male, how would you handle it if every single person in all circumstances referred to you as a woman?

He’d probably be unhappy because it wasn’t the truth. And likewise, we should be unhappy telling other people things that are not the truth, such as “you’re a woman in a man’s body.”

On that note, this whole ideology makes no sense - how can you even define “woman” if you follow it?

• A person with female anatomy? It can’t be that, because they say you can be a “woman trapped in a man’s body”
• A person who does “feminine things?” Then tomboys apparently aren’t women.
• A person who dresses in “women’s clothing”? But you can wear a dress and still be a man (cf. Harry Styles)

So the whole ideology negates itself. And we shouldn’t be indulging it.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

As I intimated earlier, you need to pick your battles, Theo. You need to decide if this is the hill you are prepared to die on. In this case, I see no cause to even fight. Much ado about nothing.

The student is the one upset about not being specifically called a certain pronoun after the teacher said that the studen’s name would be used as a compromise.