REPOST: Is there another world that guides and controls our world?

[dshix]

You sound a little upset. Why?

My point is that you cannot draw too much from previous research and discoveries when the machines are relatively unique; a modern toothpick machine will have little to offer somebody who task it is to create, say, a light bulb machine.

Um… so what? Who said that toothpick machines must be used to invent lightbulbs?

All technology relies on the relevant technology that came before it.

We’re not talking about who invented each technology, but rather, who designed the production process and machinery for each and every item that you see around you. Every plastic knob, for example, requires it’s own plastic injection mold. Every LED bulb requires its own machine and each filament of each LED light bulb requires its own unique machine. Each wire on the bulb requires its own machine. That’s a lot of machines for just one little unique household item.

Who invented the production process for manufacturing the USB cable for computers?

Who invented the production process for your relatively unique alarm clock? How many unique little items are in that clock? How did your alarm clock get assembled? Multiply that by every unique product you see and you should see the picture of what I’m trying to convey.

You seem to assume that just because your mind is unable to remember the names of every person who invented everything ever invented, that must mean the said inventors must not have existed. How is your knowledge of something relevant to its existence?

 

[Robert_Sock]

Perhaps you could be more clear about what you are trying to convey. The above paragraph merely points out that you personally cannot fathom modern manufacturing processes. That is not a proof that humans cannot work together to do such things.

The title of this thread asks whether there is “another world that guides and controls our world.” I am willing to consider and discuss that.

How would that solve the difficulty which you describe? How would another world enable the mass production of consumer goods?

I asked earlier “By what means or mechanism would the other world secretly guide and control our world?”

Is it by thought control? Do they plant these advanced technological ideas into our minds?

Do they have secret agents working in our factories, telling the workers how to build the stuff we can’t figure out?

Do they send us ready-made machinery so we can just plug it in and manufacture stuff?

When their equipment breaks down or malfunctions, do they send a service tech to fix it, do they tell us how to fix it, or do we have to figure it out for ourselves?

Are they also involved in the procurement and refinement of raw materials? How do we go from petroleum to advanced fuels and plastics, from minerals to advanced metal, glass, and semiconductors?

Did they tell us that birch is the best wood for making toothpicks?
Please explain how you envision this guidance and control works.

My contention was never to provide answers as to how and why these other spiritual worlds influence our technology, but rather why such a conclusion ought to be taken seriously. To this end, I’m only interested in discussing the technologies themselves, and why I believe our human wit is insufficient in explaining them.

 

[christofirst]

My contention was never to provide answers as to how and why these other spiritual worlds influence our technology, but rather why such a conclusion ought to be taken seriously. To this end, I’m only interested in discussing the technologies themselves, and why I believe our human wit is insufficient in explaining them.

When you speak about “spiritual worlds”, are you referring to angels and demons? That an angel or a demon might in some way suggest or somehow inspire advances in technology is an intriguing proposition, sort of like the mythical musician at the crossroads who sells his soul to achieve success. Is this what you’re thinking? Demons whispering in the inventor’s ear while he sleeps, and upon arising the inventor shouts, “Eureka!”??

Whether or not this actually ever happens, I can not say. I do not, however, agree with your proposal that “human wit”, on its own as God designed it, is incapable of engineering our ever-advancing technology. Where is your evidence to back up your claim? The fact that you (or I) can not presently understand a certain technology in no way precludes the possibility of either of us doing the necessary work to learn about said technology. With enough knowledge, experience, desire, and the (sometimes elusive) creative spark which is inherent in the human condition (being as we are created in God’s image and likeness, and God is the Creator), either of us could become a great inventor. No outside spiritual realm required.

 

[Robert_Sock]

When you speak about “spiritual worlds”, are you referring to angels and demons? That an angel or a demon might in some way suggest or somehow inspire advances in technology is an intriguing proposition, sort of like the mythical musician at the crossroads who sells his soul to achieve success. Is this what you’re thinking? Demons whispering in the inventor’s ear while he sleeps, and upon arising the inventor shouts, “Eureka!”??

The spiritual worlds may include angels.

Whether or not this actually ever happens, I can not say. I do not, however, agree with your proposal that “human wit”, on its own as God designed it, is incapable of engineering our ever-advancing technology. Where is your evidence to back up your claim? The fact that you (or I) can not presently understand a certain technology in no way precludes the possibility of either of us doing the necessary work to learn about said technology. With enough knowledge, experience, desire, and the (sometimes elusive) creative spark which is inherent in the human condition (being as we are created in God’s image and likeness, and God is the Creator), either of us could become a great inventor. No outside spiritual realm required.

I believe you’re grossly underestimating the wit that is necessary to design a modern toothpick making machine. With all the unique items we see around us, there should be mechanical engineers with a huge innate wit everywhere, but where are they all hiding? Do you know of a single one?

 

[dshix]

I’m unsubscribing from this thread.

I can’t believe I actually let myself get trolled for so long.
I suggest everyone else unsubscribe as well, so they stop wasting their time with this bunk.

 

[Beryllos]

I learned a lot about toothpicks, but there’s been too much of this: :banghead:
Unsubscribe from this Threadhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/subscribe.gif

 

[christofirst]

I have reluctantly come to the conclusion, Mr. Sock, that your posts in this thread of yours can only be the product of a mysterious spirit of obstinacy. Ordinary human wit is simply incapable of such obstinacy! To engage further with such an otherworldly spirit seems futile. Good day.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Is there enough innate wit in humans to have brought our world to where it is today over the past 150 years?

 

[Cristiano]

I do not follow you here. How so, if I might ask?

The first invention is the process of lithography and the second is the process of imaging through a set of lenses. This is what is used today to print transistors on silicon.

 

[Cristiano]

Is there enough innate wit in humans to have brought our world to where it is today over the past 150 years?

Yes there is. Why don’t you go to the website of the US patent office and start browsing around, just look at the statistics of the last few decades. You will be able to find names and addresses of real people.

 

[Cristiano]

What is the non-verbal IQ of these people? My non-verbal IQ is more than 3 standard deviations above the means and I do not begin to possess the the wit necessary to design a modern toothpick making machine.

Do you have a big difference between your verban and your non-verbal IQ? How was it measured, with WISC or WAIS?

 

[Robert_Sock]

Do you have a big difference between your verban and your non-verbal IQ? How was it measured, with WISC or WAIS?

Yes, there is a big difference between my verbal and non-verbal IQ. I’m not sure which test, but it was taken around 1974, while I was in HS. .

 

[Robert_Sock]

Yes there is. Why don’t you go to the website of the US patent office and start browsing around, just look at the statistics of the last few decades. You will be able to find names and addresses of real people.

I have been browsing the Patent Office website, but I fail to see where I can view the patents of specialized machines.

 

[vsedriver]

Do you know of somebody who can design and build the machinery for the the mass production of toothpicks?

yes, in fact, I know several. Having worked in manufacturing it is not all that amazing to me. Having participated in 18th century living history events, modern technology is not all that impressive. People have been doing the same things since there were people. The only difference between then and now is that we can do it better. Although I have to admit sometimes the ancients did it better.

Technology advances at the speed at which information can be transmitted. Speed up the transmission of knowledge and you speed up technology.

I suggest you watch the series “Connections” by James Burke. Episode 1 “The Trigger Effect” is very interesting. Or even read his book by the same name.

topdocumentaryfilms.com/james-burke-connections/

 

[vsedriver]

To this end, I’m only interested in discussing the technologies themselves, and why I believe our human wit is insufficient in explaining them.

Perhaps it would be easier to discuss if you could illustrate how you feel human wit is insufficient to produce these technologies. So far all I’ve seen is evidence that human wit is sufficient. Of course a little human greed can grease the wheels of any creative endeavor. As in “build a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door.”

The vast amount of human technology was produced by people trying to get rich quick.

 

[Larry1700]

Yes, I am convinced that I am being controlled by someone or something from another world. My reasoning tells me that I should not eat junk food, yet I find myself doing so frequently.

Strange, but true!

 

[Robert_Sock]

yes, in fact, I know several. Having worked in manufacturing it is not all that amazing to me. Having participated in 18th century living history events, modern technology is not all that impressive. People have been doing the same things since there were people. The only difference between then and now is that we can do it better. Although I have to admit sometimes the ancients did it better.

Technology advances at the speed at which information can be transmitted. Speed up the transmission of knowledge and you speed up technology.

I suggest you watch the series “Connections” by James Burke. Episode 1 “The Trigger Effect” is very interesting. Or even read his book by the same name.

topdocumentaryfilms.com/james-burke-connections/

You know several people who can design the modern machinery needed to mass produce toothpicks? Can you tell me a little about them? What type of machines did they design? What are their qualifications?

 

[davidv]

Are you trying to say that a toothpick making machine can be used to, say, make light bulbs?

No. Why did you think I did?

And who has this wit, that’s my question? You’re average mechanical engineer?

The fact is that many have the wit to do this. This has been shown by the stream of inventions throughout history.

 

[Robert_Sock]

“Vanity of vanities! All is vanity. What advantage does man have in all his work which he does under the sun? That which has been is that which will be, and that which has been done is that which will be done. So there is nothing new under the sun. Is there anything of which one might say, ‘See this, it is new’? Already it has existed for ages which were before us. There is no remembrance of earlier things, and also of the later things which will occur; there will be for them no remembrance among those who will come later still.”
–Ecclesiastes 1:2-3, 7-11

 

[davidv]

“Vanity of vanities! All is vanity. What advantage does man have in all his work which he does under the sun? That which has been is that which will be, and that which has been done is that which will be done. So there is nothing new under the sun. Is there anything of which one might say, ‘See this, it is new’? Already it has existed for ages which were before us. There is no remembrance of earlier things, and also of the later things which will occur; there will be for them no remembrance among those who will come later still.”
–Ecclesiastes 1:2-3, 7-11

It seems to me this passage is a refutation of your OP. The wit needed for the invention of the toothpick machinery existed since the beginning ("…So there is nothing new under the sun…")