REPOST: Is there another world that guides and controls our world?

[TEPO]

Assumption that just because a machine is built, that the machine must have a human designer. Again, let me see the designer in action. Let me shake the designer’s hand. I spent most of my life searching for these “brainy” people (which included a PhD from UCLA) and I never met anyone who comes close to having the wit necessary to figure these things out.

I see what you’re saying… I believe that God designed this world knowing exactly what humans would look like. I believe that He lends a hand here and there or infuses an idea at one time that corresponds with something else that follows.

…Bill Gates was made ‘smart’ for a reason. What that reason is might not be known for another 100 years after a few more ‘smart’ people branch off of his doings. Ultimately, Gods plan continues on and on -just as it has been since the Creative Act.

 

[Robert_Sock]

(I’m back) Even if you met the inventor, and he said, “Yes, I invented the toothpick-making machine,” would you believe him? Wouldn’t you just continue to think that God or spirits somehow planted the idea in his head, and he is just taking the credit? Even if you sat down with him while he came up with a new complex invention, wouldn’t you still continue to think that God or spirits are somehow controlling him?

Certainly God and spirits control all of us. There is not a bit of wit in us that does not come from God.

 

[TEPO]

Certainly God and spirits control all of us. There is not a bit of wit in us that does not come from God.

You’re right. The only problem is that with being given Gods gifts, such as wit, there is also the possibility of negative influences. Albert Einsteins wit was used to create a device that killed thousands and thousands…

IMHO, the atomic tests that took place under the oceans have caused global environmental damage. . ( we know the largest atomic explosions took place underwater, but how many more took place that we don’t know about? Did the Russians set them off underwater near the North Pole? Who knows. )

…we have the free will to use our gifts for either good or evil, and the devil is always there too to influence us.

(Perhaps the devils plan was to use atomic bombs to melt glaciers from underwater detonations -and now the ‘green movement’ is born in order to further that negative invention to seize global governance…? Perhaps both God and the devil have agendas, and the devil always steals Gods gifts to men and persuades men to use them for evil?)

 

[TEPO]

I wonder if the internet will eventually be used for good or evil? Whether or not God granted men the wit to create it, was the result Gods intention or Satans? Only time will tell.

 

[christofirst]

Certainly God and spirits control all of us. There is not a bit of wit in us that does not come from God.

The second statement is true. The first could be taken to be a denial of free will, as has been addressed earlier in this thread. Such a conclusion is not true, as it would point to our being some sort of puppets. Does God influence and inspire us (guide, as you say), and allow spirits to sometimes do so as well? Yes. Is it possible that the ideas for advances in technology are in some way put into our minds from this world of spirit? I suppose it is possible, but the burden of proof is yours to provide. Even if such ideas are implanted in some way, we can still decide whether or not to act upon them. Your use of the word “control” seems to be the problem, in my humble opinion.

 

[TEPO]

The second statement is true. The first could be taken to be a denial of free will, as has been addressed earlier in this thread. Such a conclusion is not true, as it would point to our being some sort of puppets. Does God influence and inspire us (guide, as you say), and allow spirits to sometimes do so as well? Yes. Is it possible that the ideas for advances in technology are in some way put into our minds from this world of spirit? I suppose it is possible, but the burden of proof is yours to provide. Even if such ideas are implanted in some way, we can still decide whether or not to act upon them. Your use of the word “control” seems to be the problem, in my humble opinion.

I agree. We can be influenced but not controlled by either God or demons. Of course there is the case of demonic possession, where ones body actually becomes possessed.

…but still, the mind and soul remain seperate from the actual possession. So there is no “thought control” going on there.

 

[christofirst]

I agree. We can be influenced but not controlled by either God or demons. Of course there is the case of demonic possession, where ones body actually becomes possessed.

…but still, the mind and soul remain seperate from the actual possession. So there is no “thought control” going on there.

I have heard that with demonic possession there is still always some assent of the will on our part, but now we are wading into waters beyond my experience (thank God!)

 

[Robert_Sock]

The second statement is true. The first could be taken to be a denial of free will, as has been addressed earlier in this thread. Such a conclusion is not true, as it would point to our being some sort of puppets. Does God influence and inspire us (guide, as you say), and allow spirits to sometimes do so as well? Yes. Is it possible that the ideas for advances in technology are in some way put into our minds from this world of spirit? I suppose it is possible, but the burden of proof is yours to provide. Even if such ideas are implanted in some way, we can still decide whether or not to act upon them. Your use of the word “control” seems to be the problem, in my humble opinion.

God provides the thoughts (inner voices) and we have a free will to act on them or not. Is it control versus freewill? My contention is that both are true, with a heavy emphasis on control.

 

[christofirst]

God provides the thoughts (inner voices) and we have a free will to act on them or not. Is it control versus freewill? My contention is that both are true, with a heavy emphasis on control.

That could be taken as a cop-out, like old Flip Wilson having Geraldine say, “The devil made me do it!” Or it could cause one to stop trying - whether it be to change behavior or create new things - since God and spirits are calling the shots, and nothing we do much matters until we receive our orders and ideas from the other world. Given such an extreme option, control over free will, I, like Rush, will choose to believe in a path that’s clear. I will choose free will!

 

[TEPO]

That could be taken as a cop-out, like old Flip Wilson having Geraldine say, “The devil made me do it!” Or it could cause one to stop trying - whether it be to change behavior or create new things - since God and spirits are calling the shots, and nothing we do much matters until we receive our orders and ideas from the other world. Given such an extreme option, control over free will, I, like Rush, will choose to believe in a path that’s clear. I will choose free will!

Haha… . Yeah, I’m going to go with Rush on this one too… And the CC.

…after all, its Catholic teaching that Mary was “asked” by the angel to be the mother of Christ. It’s always free will.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Haha… . Yeah, I’m going to go with Rush on this one too… And the CC.

…after all, its Catholic teaching that Mary was “asked” by the angel to be the mother of Christ. It’s always free will.

Do we have free will as to whether or not to work? I say, not really.

 

[christofirst]

Do we have free will as to whether or not to work? I say, not really.

There may be physical and mental afflictions or deficiencies which keep us from doing work, especially as society defines it. This does not necessarily mean we are under someone else’s control. Expand your definition of work. Think of the opus dei, the work of God. Maybe for some, just trying to get out of bed is all the work God is asking of us, that we keep trying. Also, though it certainly does not pay well, keeping people engaged and connected by writing on an online forum such as this can certainly be a good work.

 

[TEPO]

Do we have free will as to whether or not to work? I say, not really.

No. To live, to die, to get sick or to have to make ends meat to survive (work) are Natural Laws beyond the scope of our choice. From what I understand though, it hasn’t always been that way. It wasn’t until the fall of our first parents and the poor “choice” that they made that things became this way.

 

[christofirst]

No. To live, to die, to get sick or to have to make ends meat to survive (work) are Natural Laws beyond the scope of our choice. From what I understand though, it hasn’t always been that way. It wasn’t until the fall of our first parents and the poor “choice” that they made that things became this way.

Yes, I see what you are saying. We must work, or have someone work for us (I’m thinking of infants or invalids, for example). What work we do, that is still a choice, despite any limiting factors. That fact that we are here on Earth in the first place is outside of our control. The fact that we remain here on Earth and what we do here, we do have considerable control over that, as God so permits.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Imagine a great reservoir of knowledge, greater than the water of all the oceans. Also imagine having a limited amount of awareness where you could acquire the knowledge one cupful of knowledge at a time, at best, and only with considerable effort; and because of your limited awareness, imagine having still greater difficulty trying to integrate one cupful of knowledge with the next. Think of this as the current scenario for man as we live this life on earth!

 

[vsedriver]

God provides the thoughts (inner voices) and we have a free will to act on them or not. Is it control versus freewill? My contention is that both are true, with a heavy emphasis on control.

God inspires but the choice to act is fully up to us. No control involved at all. Control negates free will.

 

[vsedriver]

Do we have free will as to whether or not to work? I say, not really.

of course we can chose not to work or to work. Look around. There are thousands of people who don’t work. Fortunately they have those of us who do work and a government who feels it must be a charity to all to support them.

 

[vsedriver]

Imagine a great reservoir of knowledge, greater than the water of all the oceans. Also imagine having a limited amount of awareness where you could acquire the knowledge one cupful of knowledge at a time, at best, and only with considerable effort; and because of your limited awareness, imagine having still greater difficulty trying to integrate one cupful of knowledge with the next. Think of this as the current scenario for man as we live this life on earth!

I would think that with each additional cup it would get easier to integrate knowledge.