"Reproductive Health" Bill in Colorado

[SMGS127]

I do. I don’t think we’re there yet. I could see myself vote for Rand Paul. I think he’s sincere.

Rand Paul just came out and said that we must change the hearts of the country before doing anything about abortion; I wouldn’t be too sure .

I, for one, hope Santorum runs again. He’s pretty right-wing on economics, but he’s at least amenable to discussing those issues. And he’s solidly Catholic on social issues.

 

[FollowChrist34]

If you’re talking about Washington state - we didn’t defeat assisted suicide as Washington is one of four states that legalized it - the others being Oregon, Montana and Vermont. Most of the states restricting abortion are the Midwest or southern states that have more conservative (and Republican) legislatures. Washington has kind of a libertarian streak that occasionally passes anti-tax initiatives proposed by Tim Eyman. But overall, it is very liberal due to most of the population being in King, Snohomish and Pierce counties. One of my formative experiences was going door to door promoting a bill that would have given tuition tax credits for families that send their kids to private schools. Needless to say it was defeated. This was back in the mid-70’s.

Ishii

I stand corrected! Sorry, was going by memory. We did originally defeat it in 1991. I drew a blank and/or repressed my memory of the initiative passing in 2008. (Just trying to make us look good… … oh well)

Background: In 1991, by a vote of 54 to 46 percent, Washington State voters defeated Initiative 119, a measure that would have permitted doctors to provide euthanasia by lethal injection or assisted suicide by a prescription for an intentional lethal overdose of drugs.

After that, three attempts were made in the Washington State legislature to transform assisted suicide, which was a crime in Washington, into a “medical treatment.” All three attempts failed.

In 2008, assisted-suicide proponents targeted the state for a massive effort to make Washington only the second state to approve assisted suicide. With a voter initiative (I-1000)on the 2008 ballot, they succeeded, by a vote of 57.91 to 42.09 percent, in making it legal for doctors to help their patients commit suicide. The Washington initiative, patterned on Oregon’s assisted-suicide law, was spearheaded by Compassion and Choices (the former Hemlock Society).

The Washington law (RCW 70.245) went into effect in March 2009.

Thanks for jumping on that Ishii !!

 

[ishii]

Rand Paul just came out and said that we must change the hearts of the country before doing anything about abortion; I wouldn’t be too sure .

I, for one, hope Santorum runs again. He’s pretty right-wing on economics, but he’s at least amenable to discussing those issues. And he’s solidly Catholic on social issues.

You are misquoting Rand Paul, SMGS. He didn’t say that. He said, “we’re not changing any of the laws until the country is persuaded… (that abortion is wrong).” I take that to mean we won’t be successful in changing the laws until more people in this country start respecting life. I agree with him to an extent. I do not think he is in favor of not trying to restrict abortion and am confident he would appoint solid justices to the courts. I wonder why you are trying to spin his comments a certain way -

Ishii

 

[ishii]

Why do you think I don’t approve?

Because I read your earlier posts. You don’t seem to want to support the people making substantive, real progress in the fight against legal abortion because they’re GOP and the GOP let you down because you realized your idol (the GOP) wasn’t perfect so to get back at them for not being perfect you will not vote for them. Is that about it?

Ishii

 

[miguel]

Because I read your earlier posts. You don’t seem to want to support the people making substantive, real progress in the fight against legal abortion because they’re GOP and the GOP let you down because you realized your idol (the GOP) wasn’t perfect so to get back at them for not being perfect you will not vote for them. Is that about it?

Ishii

Not quite. Yes, there was a time when I was putting all my hopes and dreams in the GOP. And yes, that definitely was a form of idolatry. And it was making me depressed when they’d let us all down. This is what false idols do. Only Jesus Christ can be trusted with all my hopes and dreams. It’s not about getting back at them. It’s about holding them accountable to their long standing party platform. Their “not perfect” fidelity to this platform is too kindly stated. They’ve had many, many opportunities…especially under GW and majorities in both houses of Congress. And they didn’t do it. God Bless ishii.

 

[miguel]

Rand Paul just came out and said that we must change the hearts of the country before doing anything about abortion; I wouldn’t be too sure .

I, for one, hope Santorum runs again. He’s pretty right-wing on economics, but he’s at least amenable to discussing those issues. And he’s solidly Catholic on social issues.

Rand Paul isn’t Jesus either. I do like him though. Santorum I would not support. He likes to take credit for the partial birth abortion ban…an act of Congress that actually affirms Roe with explicit language stating only children who are born are protected by the 14th Amendment. The GOP holds passage of this act as progress. No. This is exactly why the Supreme Court upheld it. It wasn’t a challenge to Roe at all. The devil is in the details. God Bless.

 

[ishii]

Not quite. Yes, there was a time when I was putting all my hopes and dreams in the GOP. And yes, that definitely was a form of idolatry. And it was making me depressed when they’d let us all down. This is what false idols do. Only Jesus Christ can be trusted with all my hopes and dreams. It’s not about getting back at them. It’s about holding them accountable to their long standing party platform. Their “not perfect” fidelity to this platform is too kindly stated. They’ve had many, many opportunities…especially under GW and majorities in both houses of Congress. And they didn’t do it. God Bless ishii.

I think we’ve discussed this before - you wanted them to pass a law in congress outlawing abortion. If it were a simple matter of doing that, then why has the pro-life movement focused on overturning Roe V Wade? Why hasn’t the pro-life movement campaigned to get a simple majority in congress, and a Republican president to once and for all outlaw abortion from conception? The answer of course is because its not a simple matter of doing that - if it were then that would be the focus. So you’re holding the Republican party to an unrealistic standard. And in so doing, you’re basically accusing the pro-life movement which includes genuine pro-life folks - really smart and upright people - of being a bunch of lying hypocrites, or just really stupid. You would also have to include Rick Santorum in this too - if what you’re saying about the GOP is true - that Rick Santorum, in spite of being pro-life and Catholic, is a lying “insincere” hypocrite or stupid. Is that what you really believe? Or do you just want to hold the GOP to an unrealistic standard of perfection that is unreachable so that you don’t have to vote for them?

Ishii

 

[ishii]

Rand Paul isn’t Jesus either. I do like him though. Santorum I would not support. He likes to take credit for the partial birth abortion ban…an act of Congress that actually affirms Roe with explicit language stating only children who are born are protected by the 14th Amendment. The GOP holds passage of this act as progress. No. This is exactly why the Supreme Court upheld it. It wasn’t a challenge to Roe at all. The devil is in the details. God Bless.

Well, its nice to see you’ve stopped making idols of politicians that can’t live up to your standard. So you wouldn’t support Rick Santorum because he isn’t pro-life enough. Is that correct? Apparently based on that standard, you would find no one who qualifies for your support. That is a recipe for failure and continued abortion on demand. I believe that it is this kind of view which helps continue and perpetuate the scourge of abortion in our country: too many otherwise good people who make the perfect the enemy of the good. Meanwhile the slaughter continues.

Ishii

 

[miguel]

Rand Paul isn’t Jesus either. I do like him though. Santorum I would not support. He likes to take credit for the partial birth abortion ban…an act of Congress that actually affirms Roe with explicit language stating only children who are born are protected by the 14th Amendment. The GOP holds passage of this act as progress. No. This is exactly why the Supreme Court upheld it. It wasn’t a challenge to Roe at all. The devil is in the details. God Bless.

I forgot to add that the objectionable language of PBAB flatly contradicts the long-standing words of the GOP party platform…restoring 14th Amendment protections for…precisely what Roe denied to the unborn.

 

[miguel]

I think we’ve discussed this before - you wanted them to pass a law in congress outlawing abortion. If it were a simple matter of doing that, then why has the pro-life movement focused on overturning Roe V Wade? Why hasn’t the pro-life movement campaigned to get a simple majority in congress, and a Republican president to once and for all outlaw abortion from conception? The answer of course is because its not a simple matter of doing that - if it were then that would be the focus. So you’re holding the Republican party to an unrealistic standard. And in so doing, you’re basically accusing the pro-life movement which includes genuine pro-life folks - really smart and upright people - of being a bunch of lying hypocrites, or just really stupid. You would also have to include Rick Santorum in this too - if what you’re saying about the GOP is true - that Rick Santorum, in spite of being pro-life and Catholic, is a lying “insincere” hypocrite or stupid. Is that what you really believe? Or do you just want to hold the GOP to an unrealistic standard of perfection that is unreachable so that you don’t have to vote for them?

Ishii

So you think holding them accountable to their own platform is an unrealistic standard? Come on ishii. God Bless.

 

[ishii]

So you think holding them accountable to their own platform is an unrealistic standard? Come on ishii. God Bless.

That’s not what you’re doing. Instead you’re holding them accountable for an unrealistic, politically unreachable standard which is the complete outlawing of abortion on demand across the country, yesterday. And anything short of accomplishing that goal, yesterday, is somehow proof that they are not authentically pro-life and therefore not worthy of the support of the “authentic” pro-life voter. Meanwhile, Obama wins. Pelosi wins. The abortion lobby, Emily’s List candidates win - because otherwise good people make the perfect the enemy of the good.

Is that about it?

Ishii

 

[estesbob]

That’s not what you’re doing. Instead you’re holding them accountable for an unrealistic, politically unreachable standard which is the complete outlawing of abortion on demand across the country, yesterday. And anything short of accomplishing that goal, yesterday, is somehow proof that they are not authentically pro-life and therefore not worthy of the support of the “authentic” pro-life voter. Meanwhile, Obama wins. Pelosi wins. The abortion lobby, Emily’s List candidates win - because otherwise good people make the perfect the enemy of the good.

Is that about it?

Ishii

Some people make the tough decisions and vote to limit evil even if it means voting for a less thank perfect canidate. And some stand on the sidelines throwing stones at everyone who dares get involved.

 

[TCEL]

Some people make the tough decisions and vote to limit evil even if it means voting for a less thank perfect canidate. And some stand on the sidelines throwing stones at everyone who dares get involved.

I really appreciated Archbishop Aquila’s leadership in heading off SB175. When we were praying in front of the Capitol, I could feel the Holy Spirit. I usually am not prone to saying things like that, but this time, well, I could! Thank God for leaders like him who act as an energizing force in this struggle. I, for my part, don’t throw stones at people in the Republican party who are trying to fight this battle. While there may be disagreements in approach, nothing could make the devil happier, I think, than to see us divided in trying to overcome abortion. Occasionally I get frustrated, but I am very aware that ideologically, one platform has completely endorsed abortion and continues to aggressively support it. They continue to hold the edge when it comes to educating the general populace. This is where people like the Archbishop can really help us, and witness to Christ’s love. Just some thoughts…

 

[estesbob]

I really appreciated Archbishop Aquila’s leadership in heading off SB175. When we were praying in front of the Capitol, I could feel the Holy Spirit. I usually am not prone to saying things like that, but this time, well, I could! Thank God for leaders like him who act as an energizing force in this struggle. I, for my part, don’t throw stones at people in the Republican party who are trying to fight this battle. While there may be disagreements in approach, nothing could make the devil happier, I think, than to see us divided in trying to overcome abortion. Occasionally I get frustrated, but I am very aware that ideologically, one platform has completely endorsed abortion and continues to aggressively support it. They continue to hold the edge when it comes to educating the general populace. This is where people like the Archbishop can really help us, and witness to Christ’s love. Just some thoughts…

We have been blessed with strong pro-life Bishops in Co. .Aquilas predecessor, Archbishop Chaput, a led a Rosary in front of the Democrat Convention site over their support of unrestricted taxpayer funded abortion on demand

 

[TCEL]

We have been blessed with strong pro-life Bishops in Co. .Aquilas predecessor, Archbishop Chaput, a led a Rosary in front of the Democrat Convention site over their support of unrestricted taxpayer funded abortion on demand

I find this very moving. I’m almost positive he revealed in his book “Render Unto Caesar” that he had been a democrat, only I can’t find where. Now, he has a very nuanced understanding of politics and the Church. He still takes to task the idea of becoming comfortable with one’s own party, and he vigorously asserts that no party is without fault.

“The sooner Catholics feel at home in any political party, the sooner that party begins to take them for granted and then to ignore their concerns.” Render Unto Caesar pg.4

I’d have to say that this is where my sentiments lie. Like he says on pg 4, acting on principle matters. I happen to think that we can’t have other American rights without life, and reversing the order leads to “might is right.”

 

[andrewstx]

Yet another example showing that there IS a difference in the political parties, and that the Democratic Party is pro-abortion. Ya know, enough of these types of things, and eventually some Catholics are going to have to wake up to the fact that their party is contradictory to the faith.

But the Republican party is anti-life with their pro death penalty and pro-war stance. I think both the major parties miss the goal.

To me we need a Catholic party, one not focused on making a buck. Both parties focus on money, not morality IMHO

 

[miguel]

That’s not what you’re doing. Instead you’re holding them accountable for an unrealistic, politically unreachable standard which is the complete outlawing of abortion on demand across the country, yesterday. And anything short of accomplishing that goal, yesterday, is somehow proof that they are not authentically pro-life and therefore not worthy of the support of the “authentic” pro-life voter. Meanwhile, Obama wins. Pelosi wins. The abortion lobby, Emily’s List candidates win - because otherwise good people make the perfect the enemy of the good.

Is that about it?

Ishii

With man it is impossible. With God all things are possible.

 

[miguel]

I find this very moving. I’m almost positive he revealed in his book “Render Unto Caesar” that he had been a democrat, only I can’t find where. Now, he has a very nuanced understanding of politics and the Church. He still takes to task the idea of becoming comfortable with one’s own party, and he vigorously asserts that no party is without fault. I’d have to say that this is where my sentiments lie. Like he says on pg 4, acting on principle matters. I happen to think that we can’t have other American rights without life, and reversing the order leads to “might is right.”

I don’t like being played on baby killing and it’s why I no longer vote GOP no matter what. Acting on principle does matter. Holding them accountable to their platform is acting on principle IMO. If losing a few elections causes them to do some much-needed soul-searching why not try that for awhile? God Bless.

 

[estesbob]

But the Republican party is anti-life with their pro death penalty and pro-war stance. I think both the major parties miss the goal.

To me we need a Catholic party, one not focused on making a buck. Both parties focus on money, not morality IMHO

The GOP is not pro war.There is no moral equivalence between supporting abortion and supporting the Death penalty.

 

[Path_Finder]

The GOP is not pro war.There is no moral equivalence between supporting abortion and supporting the Death penalty.

Hillary Clinton was for the invasion of Iraq, there is a whole list of such Democrats.

But at least the arguments of some, seems to show a partisan bias rather than actually being concerned about the plight of the unborn.