F
fix
Guest
Exactly correct.
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F
fix
Guest
Reclassifying acts does not change the essence of what they are.
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twoshoes
Guest
Actually this country was founded on christian beliefs, by christians. Separation of church and state only was meant to keep the government out of the churches, and to forbid the establishment of a state church.yes, civil law, some forget this country has a keen separation of church and state. And that is a good thing.
Iran does not, and look how great it is going for them.
When government can tell it citicens what to belief then government has again over reached, and rights of the individual are lost.
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fix
Guest
The law without morality is tyranny.yes, civil law, some forget this country has a keen separation of church and state. And that is a good thing.
Iran does not, and look how great it is going for them.
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livnlern
Guest
Epan, you say it’s difficult to believe the information presented by Abyssinia, then give staticstics of your own and give nothing to back up what you say. Where is proof for what you say?
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scipio337
Guest
Riiiiggght…just up until the time they demand Catholic hospitals, charities, schools, etc, offer same sex partner benefits, gay adoption…
catholicnewsagency.com/news/same-sex_marriage_law_forces_d.c._catholic_charities_to_close_adoption_program/
sj-r.com/top-stories/x123110829/Catholic-Charities-to-scale-back-services-but-keep-offices-open
washingtontimes.com/news/2006/mar/14/20060314-010603-3657r/
Oh, wait, you don’t consider those organizations “Catholic enough”, as evidenced by your position on the HHS mandate.
“Sorry, you’re not a Church, so suck it up!”
As I said before, you can stick by President Obama (and Sen Portman). I will stick with the bishops, Pope Francis I, and my faith.
E
epan
Guest
You don’t need to believe me either. I would encourage you to do your own research, and decide which or neither of us is more accurate.
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holyrood
Guest
Smoking, like homosexual activity, is a behavior. We can and do ‘discriminate’ against smoking. We can and should discriminate among behaviors.
The question about ‘deciding’ to be heterosexual is pretty trite and old. Over and over and over again, I hear directly from homosexuals that they had abusive backgrounds and childhood traumas. Clearly, there is something going on here other than a select number of people ‘being born that way.’ This is one of the reasons I actually find it *cruel *to encourage this attitude that we’re born this way. But we’re far too politically correct to talk about how prevalent that abusive background is among those with SSA.
C
Crescentinus
Guest
The worst form of hatred to be against homosexuals is enabling homosexual activity.Smoking, like homosexual activity, is a behavior. We can and do ‘discriminate’ against smoking. We can and should discriminate among behaviors.
The question about ‘deciding’ to be heterosexual is pretty trite and old. Over and over and over again, I hear directly from homosexuals that they had abusive backgrounds and childhood traumas. Clearly, there is something going on here other than a select number of people ‘being born that way.’ This is one of the reasons I actually find it *cruel *to encourage this attitude that we’re born this way. But we’re far too politically correct to talk about how prevalent that abusive background is among those with SSA.
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holyrood
Guest
An anecdote on children ‘knowing’ they’re gay:
A friend told me they’ve known their daughter was lesbian since she was four. How? Because she said she wanted to marry a woman.
Sadly, it seems to go over my friend’s head, probably because she’s very into this cause to begin with, that this was a little girl with a terrible, lousy father who treated everyone around him terribly. Most likely, the only stable, loving person in her life was her mother. It’s pretty easy to me to see how a child of four would say, in all innocence, that she wanted to marry a woman. I, myself, announced at the age of four that I wanted to be a streetwalker…because I loved taking walks with my mother, not because I genuinely wanted to be a prostitute. The same thing is going on here.
However, my friend, who’s very into liberal causes, took the ball and ran with it, and hence the girl has now been raised for 12 years to believe she’s a lesbian, being told by the adults around her that she is a lesbian, because of one innocent statement.
A friend told me they’ve known their daughter was lesbian since she was four. How? Because she said she wanted to marry a woman.
Sadly, it seems to go over my friend’s head, probably because she’s very into this cause to begin with, that this was a little girl with a terrible, lousy father who treated everyone around him terribly. Most likely, the only stable, loving person in her life was her mother. It’s pretty easy to me to see how a child of four would say, in all innocence, that she wanted to marry a woman. I, myself, announced at the age of four that I wanted to be a streetwalker…because I loved taking walks with my mother, not because I genuinely wanted to be a prostitute. The same thing is going on here.
However, my friend, who’s very into liberal causes, took the ball and ran with it, and hence the girl has now been raised for 12 years to believe she’s a lesbian, being told by the adults around her that she is a lesbian, because of one innocent statement.
E
epan
Guest
Are you saying that sexual attraction, and sex, are not a part of romantic love?
I
InSearchofGrace
Guest
Wow. This post certainly hits the high points of gay apologia. Under a Catholic mantle, too.
It is interesting how a Catholic gets to be a mouthpiece against a Catholic teaching on homosexual acts and so called gay “marriage.” It’s a big contradiction and betrayal to the stated faith affiliation, as it is in the orthodoxy of Judaism, Mormonism, and the Muslim faith. Even with Buddhism, with the Dalai Lama, in his plain spoken manner, explaining in an interview on the wrongness of homosexual acts. He said, “It’s the wrong hole.”
BBC, if you are looking to changing the law written in the hearts of man, in Scripture and Tradition, and affirmed as teaching by the Catholic Church, you might have better luck in hoping two men can copulate to bring forth a child or two women producing sperm in exchange of affection.
Catholic laity may be fractured under secular sway, but there are legions of us who are cheering for the new Pope who is strongly against gay “marriage” and adoption of children.
Habemus Papam!
,
L
LisaA
Guest
ABSOLUTELY and thank you for jumping in. Homosexual sexual activity is just that, a behavior. We discriminate against behavior all of the time, else we wouldn’t have a justice code. This is not the same as discriminating against one’s innate nature. I was born female, I grew up female, I will die female. My co-worker was born black, grew up black and will die black. There is nothing either of us can do to change this (do not bring up “sex change” surgery it does not change chromosomes).Smoking, like homosexual activity, is a behavior. We can and do ‘discriminate’ against smoking. We can and should discriminate among behaviors.
The question about ‘deciding’ to be heterosexual is pretty trite and old. Over and over and over again, I hear directly from homosexuals that they had abusive backgrounds and childhood traumas. Clearly, there is something going on here other than a select number of people ‘being born that way.’ This is one of the reasons I actually find it *cruel *to encourage this attitude that we’re born this way. But we’re far too politically correct to talk about how prevalent that abusive background is among those with SSA.
Sexual activity, sexual identity and sexual inclination CHANGES over time. One poster mentioned a friend who claimed she knew her daughter was Lesbian because she wanted to marry a girl. Well so did I and so do most little girls who often have close female friends and look at boys as some sort of alien species. Before puberty we often associate closest with people of the same gender, particularly when there isn’t a strong relationship with an opposite sex parent (another reason raising children outside traditional marriage is more difficult).
Rossum asked “when did you know you were heterosexual” as if this is something that arises out of thin air and never changes. That speaks to someone who hasn’t had a lot of encounters with homosexuals. Well I have and of the close friends and a relative who eventually came out, only ONE said he knew from puberty that he was “different.” When the other 12 year olds were looking at girls’ developing breasts, he said he remembered feeling repulsed at the sight. He never had a girlfriend and although he “passed” during his early professional years, he eventually came out publically. OTOH the rest of my close friends who are now professing a homosexual lifestyle, all of them went through phases and changes, marriages, raising children, coming out, deciding they weren’t really homosexual and returning. Sexuality and orientation can and does change.
I don’t pretend to know why people are oriented or develop orientation toward the same or opposite sex. The latter is biologically the natural order of things and certainly comports with the Church’s teachings. But I don’t see how, other than by believing the same lies that brought us no fault divorce and abortion, we can protect a behavior as if it were sacred and unchanging and a positive force for society.
Lisa
F
fix
Guest
It affects us all greatly. For one thing it affects children. They have rights.
F
fix
Guest
It seems people always look at this issue from the perspective of the same sex persons. I rarely hear about the children. Not only the children that may be exposed directly to this type of union but to all kids who will be indoctrinated into this ideology. The impact on the culture will be great.
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LisaA
Guest
Precisely! This is the same pattern of lies that brought us no fault divorce and abortion. The focus is entirely on the adults and their selfish desires. Not happy? Divorce because the next guy or gal out there WILL surely make you “happy.” Who cares that the kids don’t have a mommy or a daddy. Don’t want a baby? Oh just get rid of the problem.
No thought of what impact on society, as you said on other families and other children, on school curricula, and what distresses me the most, the impact on regligious liberty.
Lisa
H
holyrood
Guest
I heard a quote not long ago that 40 years ago, laws were made from the perspective of what’s best for the children, the generation we’re raising; and over the past 40 years there’s been a shift in attitude toward making laws based on what adults want, with the assumption that kids are ‘flexible’ and will be just fine.
Here’s just one story of growing up in a lesbian household: thepublicdiscourse.com/2012/08/6065/
There’s a book out by a woman, on the same topic. She very much disapproves of same-sex parenting, as a result of her experiences. Unfortunately, I can’t remember the name of the book, but maybe someone here knows it.
Of course, we all know that the liberal ‘listen to our experiences’ line is going to become suddenly mute when faced with the experiences of the children being raised this way, as they become adults and speak against it.
E
epan
Guest
That is an interesting topic.
In Iceland 2/3 of newborns are out of wedlock. In Sweden the number is 55%. In the US more than half of babies born to women under 30 are out of wedlock. The trend is currently rising. In some of the southern states, the number was over 50%, 6 years ago. Utah has the lowest rate, and was at 20% in 2007.
So, that leaves about 50% of babies in the US born into heterosexual marriages. The odds are that a first marriage will end in the first 10 years, 29% of the time, and in total about 50% of the time. The divorce rate in the US is just about 50% of the marriage rate in the US in 2012. For every two marriages, one marriage ends in divorce each year.
These numbers are important to consider, when you talk about the value of heterosexual marriage for raising children. Only the minority of children are even born into wedlock, and of those about 1/3 will see their parents divorce before the age of 9. That age grows lower, the longer their parents have been married prior to birth, and the probability of divorce increases as the marriage ages.
So, realistically speaking, what impact do you think heterosexual marriage will continue to have on child rearing?
Since, as a society, we are not willing to put marriage laws in place, or accept marriage as an institution of permanence, as was the case 100 years ago, perhaps we should be looking at what other ways we can raise healthy children. At what point do we start being realistic about actual results, and what actually can be achieved?
It is clear that gay marriage will not be stopped in the US. Perhaps I am wrong, but that is my perception, at this time. Regardless of that, the heterosexual marriage and childbirth figures are staggering in comparison.
If a minority of a small minority decides to marry, and a minority of the small minority of the minority decide to adopt or have children through surrogates, what sort of numbers are we talking about? If 4% of the population is gay, and if 20% of those decide to marry, and if 20% of those decide to have a child… we are talking about 0.16 percent, as compared to 50 percent of kids born out of wedlock in the general population. That is a 300 to 1 ratio. Add in the kids in divorce, and that ratio becomes something like 65% to 0.016 percent, or a ratio of 400 to 1.
I intentionally chose rather high numbers to estimate how many gay couples might adopt or surrogate. Reality might be half that or less, which would double the ratios.
Would it not be a better idea to focus on fixing the problems surrounding heterosexual marriage, rather than focus on preventing gay marriage, if the welfare of children is a concern?
E
epan
Guest
I just realized that my statistical analysis was not quite right. But I don’t think anyone can argue that the problem of gays raising children is not miniscule compared to the problem or heterosexuals being willing to produce children, at wil,l and out of wedlock.
In fact, the procreative capacity of heterosexuals presents a far greater problem than gays being able to adopt children, or to bring them into a gay marriage household.
Let’s try to keep this in realistic perspective.
I would much rather see all of this energy go into actually strengthening heterosexual marriage.
In fact, the procreative capacity of heterosexuals presents a far greater problem than gays being able to adopt children, or to bring them into a gay marriage household.
Let’s try to keep this in realistic perspective.
I would much rather see all of this energy go into actually strengthening heterosexual marriage.
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