Republican senator announces support for gay marriage

[Prodigal_Son1]

A question for everyone:

Should the Catechism suddenly change its “hateful” terminology to accommodate the victim-hood mentality of the same-sex marriage advocates?

Should the Church make that implied admission of “bigotry and hate”?

Should the Church surrender the last vestiges of its Religious Liberties?

The terminology is not hateful, as used in the whole context of the Church. It teaches ‘respect, compassion, and sensitivity.’

The Church should not surrender any doctrines.

We should take from the teaching of the Church so that we can offer guidance to help those to ‘unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.’

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

When will you use the “hateful and bigoted” terminology of the Catechism, PS?

When?

And when did your perception of “tone” become the definable arbiter of “tolerance”?

And when will you* tolerate *my “tone”?

This discussion is not about me. I have addressed your questions in my response to one of your previous posts. It’s not what we say, but how we say it that either conforms to the teaching of the Church, or not.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

The terminology is not hateful, as used in the whole context of the Church. It teaches ‘respect, compassion, and sensitivity.’

The Church should not surrender any doctrines.

We should take from the teaching of the Church so that we can offer guidance to help those to ‘unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.’

When will YOU use the full context of the terminology PS?

Because I have yet to see that.

When?

And when will **YOU **chastise the gay-advocates in here the way you have just chastised me?

When?

Or does your* tolerance* and compassion only cut one way?

 

[Cor_Cordis]

This discussion is not about me. I have addressed your questions in my response to one of your previous posts. It’s not what we say, but how we say it that either conforms to the teaching of the Church, or not.

What?

You come in here and criticize me, and when I challenge you on the exact same premise you suddenly declare your personal stance off limits?

And that seems reasonable to you? :ehh:

Physician, heal thyself.

 

[fix]

When will you use the “hateful and bigoted” terminology of the Catechism, PS?

When?

And when did your perception of “tone” become the definable arbiter of “tolerance”?

And when will you* tolerate *my “tone”?

You bring a use of logic that is not used much. It makes people assess their position. The standard cultural cues do not always hold up under that scrutiny.

I have been involved in many threads here. For example if you look at threads on contraception, there are hundreds, you will see robust debates. You will see self identified Catholics reject Catholic doctrine. What you do not see much of is the constant charges of tone and lack of charity. Why? It is an emotional topic like this thread is. It is like this subject in that the culture fully embraces it. The difference is that few make the charges that go on in the homosexual threads.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

When will YOU use the full context of the terminology PS?

Because I have yet to see that.

When?

And when will **YOU **chastise the gay-advocates in here the way you have just chastised me?

When?

Or does your* tolerance* and compassion only cut one way?

Again, I addressed your question in another previous post of yours. Please allow time for a response.

I haven’t chastised anyone and apologize if you feel that way.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

This discussion is not about me.

Oh, but apparently it is about me?

So say… you.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Warning…this link is the Human Rights Campaign website. There are actually 1138 benefits. Most married people probably have no idea they have all of them…and the ones they do know about they probably take for granted. It’s not their fault, they are the majority. The majority never realizes how good they have it until a minority starts asking for the same thing.

hrc.org/resources/entry/an-overview-of-federal-rights-and-protections-granted-to-married-couples

And again…just so we’re clear. I AM NOT ADVOCATING CHANGING CHURCH TEACHING ON GAY MARRIAGE.

This is about civil law and civil law ONLY. People who aren’t Catholic and have no intention of ever being Catholic, but are American citizens who work hard, pay taxes and just want to have what other American citizens have without having to pay lawyers and jump through hoops to get it.

Your site SAYS there are 1138 civil “benefits” to marriage, but names only a handful. Of those, some only relate to benefits from having children, which homosexuals are not prevented from having. Some of the claimed tax benefits are minimal, while ignoring the “marriage penalty”. Even the estate tax benefits can be gotten around, and the site ignores the fact that the estate tax “doubles up” at the death of the second spouse if the spousal deduction is taken at the death of the first to die. To avoid that, married couples have to write estate plans. In any event, the most common estate tax minimizing device for married couples splits the joint estate precisely in order to avoid the “double tax”; something homosexual “couples” have automatically. Besides, it only affects those whose individual estates are over $5 million. Those kinds of people go to lawyers for estate plans anyway, and can afford to do so.

Look at Obamatax. A much higher tax for married couples than for unmarried “couples”.

So what if a homosexual “couple” pays a lawyer a couple of hundred dollars to write a contract spelling out their respective property rights? Married heterosexuals who want to deviate from what the law requires have to do the same thing, and it’s very common.

Unless you want the state’s laws of intestate succession to be your “estate plan”, you’ll write a will or trust, whether you’re married or not.

The civil “rights” homosexuals stand to gain are minimal and probably more in the nature of “obligations” than “rights”. So, this society is ready to change the meaning of language and profane a time-honored institution to equate perversion with normalcy. That’s all this is really about.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

Again, I addressed your question in another previous post of yours. Please allow time for a response.

I haven’t chastised anyone and apologize if you feel that way.

So you apologize for my misunderstanding. How charitable of you.

And yet, you feel qualified to determine my tone and the accurate understanding of the overall context of the gay-advocates tone.

Well that’s very kind of you.

Oh, but it’s not about you…

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Oh, but apparently it is about me?

So say… you.

I haven’t made the discussion about you. I asked a question about a possible reason a poster apologized for his own perceived insensitivity, and have tried to answer your questions.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

Again, I addressed your question in another previous post of yours. Please allow time for a response.

I haven’t chastised anyone and apologize if you feel that way.

Tell me PS, how long have you had this tone of self-righteous piousness?

 

[Cor_Cordis]

I haven’t made the discussion about you. I asked a question about a possible reason a poster apologized for his own perceived insensitivity, and have tried to answer your questions.

So you never had me in mind when you wrote:

Terminology is acceptable, but when using ‘tones’ one should consider their intent and conforming to the whole teaching of the Church on a matter. After all, the Church uses the terminology and teaches ‘They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.’

I can’t see what’s in your heart. Only you and God know your intent.

Is that right?

 

[Cor_Cordis]

I haven’t made the discussion about you. I asked a question about a possible reason a poster apologized for his own perceived insensitivity, and have tried to answer your questions.

So you were never addressing my* tone* in here. Correct?

 

[josh987654321]

In reading some of my comments, I can see how they would be very hurtful to a homosexual, saying that their desires are disordered, not natural or normal behaviours, no doubt this is why alot would suffer from depression and things, It would be a very heavy cross to carry as a homosexual, I think most people on here who defend homosexuality are thinking that by pretending homosexual desires are normal that it will relieve the weight of their crosses, their heart is in the right place, they are just incorrect because it will not work, deep down inside homosexuals would always know that their desires are disordered, no matter how hard they try to mimic a hetrosexual lifestyle.

I apologise for any offense my previous posts may have caused to anyone, I have been viewing things from a selfish perspective, which was to find a way to tell other hetrosexuals like me to oppose homosexual desires with me, which was wrong of me, I should have been looking at it from a perspective of someone who is homosexual to oppose homosexual desires.

Id like to find a way to help homosexuals, with controling their desires and living a full life, one which is content with themselves, as yes they may have some disordered desires, but we all have disordered desires including hetrosexuals that we must not act on, but that does not mean that there is something wrong with them, or that they themselves are disordered and they still have an opportunity to lead a very full and normal life through Christ, that they are no different to any other person who leads a full and fruitful life.

Again I sincerely apologise for the Insensitivites of my previous posts.

Thank you for reading
Josh.

Cor Cordis, when I read some of your comments about ‘homosexuality’ I say “Yes, he is exactly right!” but please see it how I see it now, how it is.

It’s only that I have gotten to the ‘truth’ of ‘homosexuality’ that I can see the pain that homosexuals must be suffering from when we shove the truth in their face, a truth that deep down they have to already know! and that our tactics only worsen the situation, like I said we need homosexuals to oppose their own homosexual desires, just as we as hetrosexuals oppose our immoral hetrosexual desires such as prostitution etc etc.

The only reason homosexuals ignore the truth that they know is because they don’t want to carry the heavy cross that they must carry, and to live a life trying to believe a lie (that homosexuality is normal or natural and not disordered) is to carry an even heavier cross, because they know it’s a lie, they have to, how could they not know?

Remeber this story, (I’m not sure exactly how it goes but it was something like this) “the wind blew and blew and the man just buttoned up his coat tighter and tighter, however the sun just shined and he took of his coat.”

My views are the same, I know the truth, but my tactics have changed, my previous tactics would only hurt homosexuals even more by shoving a truth that they already know in their face, we must help them see better, to carry their cross with much dignity and respect as Christ did, without shying away from it by giving into immoral desires.

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Cor_Cordis]

Cor Cordis, when I read some of your comments about ‘homosexuality’ I say “Yes, he is exactly right!” but please see it how I see it now, how it is.

When will you see it as I see it?

As militant fascists hellbent on circumventing healthy established traditional norms (and the will of the people who recognize those norms) by enlisting judicial activism to drive Catholic Charities out of the adoption business and to leap ever closer to assaulting the Church’s Religious Liberties?

I have a difficult time extending mercy to assailants who are focused on destroying the fundamental moral foundations of countless generations… just so that I may not offend the aggressors…

I can turn my cheek, but I have no right to allow my Church, family, friends, neighbors, and nation to be endlessly assaulted.

When will you see that?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Cor Cordis, when I read some of your comments about ‘homosexuality’ I say “Yes, he is exactly right!” but please see it how I see it now, how it is.

It’s only that I have gotten to the ‘truth’ of ‘homosexuality’ that I can see the pain that homosexuals must be suffering from when we shove the truth in their face, a truth that deep down they have to already know! and that our tactics only worsen the situation, like I said we need homosexuals to oppose their own homosexual desires, just as we as hetrosexuals oppose our immoral hetrosexual desires such as prostitution etc etc.

The only reason homosexuals ignore the truth that they know is because they don’t want to carry the heavy cross that they must carry, and to live a life trying to believe a lie (that homosexuality is normal or natural and not disordered) is to carry an even heavier cross, because they know it’s a lie, they have to, how could they not know?

Remeber this story, (I’m not sure exactly how it goes but it was something like this) “the wind blew and blew and the man just buttoned up his coat tighter and tighter, however the sun just shined and he took of his coat.”

Thank you for reading
Josh

Its the same Cross we all carry. The difference is only in specifics. This Cross is carried by abortive actions, pre-marital sex, living together out of wedlock, unfaithful in wedlock, sexual pleasure for the sake of it etc. Desensitized completely in this realm by temptation. which turned to vice then habit.

So we here have a simple solution, legalize it.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

Tell me josh, can you point to any of the same-sex advocates who have posted in here and truly identify a genuine contriteness and open willingness to listen to the Church’s timeless Truths?

 

[Cor_Cordis]

Cor Cordis, when I read some of your comments about ‘homosexuality’ I say “Yes, he is exactly right!” but please see it how I see it now, how it is.

It’s only that I have gotten to the ‘truth’ of ‘homosexuality’ that I can see the pain that homosexuals must be suffering from when we shove the truth in their face,

Recognizing their victim-hood mindset only encourages their aggressively militant attitude by justifying their perceptions of The Church’s 'hateful bigotry".

I fear well-intentional souls like you, josh, will only discover that reality far too late.

But there is more than just their sentimentality and fragility of their feelings at stake here, there is also our collective society and our children. And they take priority- do they not?

 

[Cor_Cordis]

Did Our Lord spare the feelings of the divorced Samaritan Woman at the well?

Did Our Lord spare the feelings of the self-righteous people as they set poised to stone the adulteress?

Did Our Lord spare the feelings of the adulteress when he told her to go, and sin no more?

Did Our Lord spare the feelings of the Temple Merchants?

**Did Our Lord not say:

“Behold, I am sending you like sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and simple as doves." - Matthew 10:16

“Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword. For I have come to set a man ‘against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one’s enemies will be those of his household.’" - Matthew 10:34-36**

Where is the tolerance in that?

 

[josh987654321]

Please Cor Cordis, hear me out.

Your passion is good, it’s no different to Peter’s passion when he cut the ear off of the high priest’s servant who was sent to arrest Jesus.

People have always misstreated the followers of Christ, so when they do this, stand tall and fight back with the Love and Mercy of Christ, than he will surely be pleased with you.

I get so passionate sometimes that I don’t see it from the other perspective, replace during this topic the words “hetrosexual” with “homosexual” and vice versa, than read them again, if this were infact true and christ was against hetrosexual desires, this would be a very heavy cross for us to carry, we would know that it was disordered not natural or normal, and to try and live a lifestyle similar to a homosexual one would only make our crosses heavier, because deep down we would be digging a deeper hole for ourselves by living a lie, the only escape would be for us to carry our crosses with much dignity and respect as christ did, and with christ we would be free from our desires.

Remember Christ forgave them as they were nailing him to the cross.

I don’t know why I didn’t see it like this before, my passion blinded me.

Thank you for reading
Josh.