Republicans plan massive tax code overhaul

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JonNC said:
I agree, but every four years we hear that the rich need to pay their fair share. The fact is the top 10% of earners pay nearly 3/4 of the income tax. That is more than a fair share, and progressive candidates claiming they don’t is disingenuous.
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The statistic you quote is incomplete. Without knowing what the specific level of income inequality is, one cannot say whether the top 10% paying nearly 3/4 of the income tax is fair or not. In fact, even if the tax were a totally flat tax, it is still possible for the top 10% to pay 3/4 of the income tax. Remembering that you have a professional background in mathematics education, I will leave it as an exercise for the reader to calculate what level of income disparity would result in that outcome. (Hint: Suppose the lower 90% all earn $70,000 per year and the top 10% all earn X dollar per year. Calculate X so that a flat tax results in the top 10% paying 3/4 of the taxes.)
 
LeafByNiggle said:
The statistic you quote is incomplete. Without knowing what the specific level of income inequality is, one cannot say whether the top 10% paying nearly 3/4 of the income tax is fair or not. In fact, even if the tax were a totally flat tax, it is still possible for the top 10% to pay 3/4 of the income tax. Remembering that you have a professional background in mathematics education, I will leave it as an exercise for the reader to calculate what level of income disparity would result in that outcome. (Hint: Suppose the lower 90% all earn $70,000 per year and the top 10% all earn X dollar per year. Calculate X so that a flat tax results in the top 10% paying 3/4 of the taxes.)
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In 2013, the top 10% of income earners earned about 46% of thr total adjusted gross income, and paid about 70% of the total income taxes paid.
The top 1% earned about 19% and paid about 38%.
Fair share

taxfoundation.org/article/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2015-update
 
Michael68 said:
Yeah? What is fair about that? How bout we take 50% of your income? You can do with less right?

Jealousy is never a good idea.
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It has nothing to do with jealousy…we have a nation to run. To me it is easy to decide that someone making over $5 m per year can better afford to pay for the advantages this nation offers than someone making $50 k. The old “To whom much is given…”
 
oldcelt said:
It has nothing to do with jealousy…we have a nation to run. To me it is easy to decide that someone making over $5 m per year can better afford to pay for the advantages this nation offers than someone making $50 k. The old “To whom much is given…”
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Exactly! AMEN to THIS^ :clapping:
 
oldcelt said:
It has nothing to do with jealousy…we have a nation to run. To me it is easy to decide that someone making over $5 m per year can better afford to pay for the advantages this nation offers than someone making $50 k. The old “To whom much is given…”
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It is truly amazing how many government services become absolutely essential when you can force someone else to pay for them.
 
ucfengr said:
It is truly amazing how many government services become absolutely essential when you can force someone else to pay for them.
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It is not a question of government services being essential. It is a question of justly sharing the blessings God has given us. If it has pleased God to bless us with more than is “absolutely essential”, then so be it.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
It is not a question of government services being essential. It is a question of justly sharing the blessings God has given us. If it has pleased God to bless us with more than is “absolutely essential”, then so be it.
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So, what you’re saying is, God is wrong for blessing some people more than others, and it’s our collective responsibility to correct God’s mistakes by taking those excess blessings and redistributing them to people we deem more worthy.
 
ucfengr said:
So, what you’re saying is, God is wrong for blessing some people more than others, and it’s our collective responsibility to correct God’s mistakes by taking those excess blessings and redistributing them to people we deem more worthy.
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God wants us to give our money and possessions away. Just because we tend to fail in this regard doesn’t mean He forgot about His preference.
 
ucfengr said:
So, what you’re saying is, God is wrong for blessing some people more than others, and it’s our collective responsibility to correct God’s mistakes by taking those excess blessings and redistributing them to people we deem more worthy.
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I am saying that God gave us everything we have. It is arrogant to think that we, by our own merits, are entitled to any of it. God has instructed us to share his gifts justly.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
It is not a question of government services being essential. It is a question of justly sharing the blessings God has given us. If it has pleased God to bless us with more than is “absolutely essential”, then so be it.
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No where does Christ teach that it is just to compel others to “share” their wealth. There is no compassion when one is compelled. The one required to share is not acting from love, but from compulsion, even if they are in favor of it. Those who compel or support the compulsion are not acting from compassion, but from power, even if they feel it is necessary.
We can claim that taxation to help the poor is necessary in an otherwise free society (leaving aside the constitutional issue of the central government ding it), but we can claim that the participants, the taxed or the government, are performing any act of compassion or charity.
 
JonNC said:
No where does Christ teach that it is just to compel others to “share” their wealth. There is no compassion when one is compelled. The one required to share is not acting from love, but from compulsion, even if they are in favor of it. Those who compel or support the compulsion are not acting from compassion, but from power, even if they feel it is necessary.
We can claim that taxation to help the poor is necessary in an otherwise free society (leaving aside the constitutional issue of the central government ding it), but we can claim that the participants, the taxed or the government, are performing any act of compassion or charity.
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I never said it was charity. I said it was justice.
 
J_Peterson said:
God wants us to give our money and possessions away. Just because we tend to fail in this regard doesn’t mean He forgot about His preference.
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Where does God say this? And where does God command us to take other people’s property and redistribute it as we see fit. I seem to remember God commanding us to do just the opposite. Does “Thou shalt not steal.” ring any bells?
LeafByNiggle said:
I am saying that God gave us everything we have. It is arrogant to think that we, by our own merits, are entitled to any of it. God has instructed us to share his gifts justly.
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And God, for whatever reason, gave some people more than others, and you, in your greater wisdom, seek to rectify God’s error by taking whatever they have that you deem God gave them inappropriately and give it to someone you think more deserving of God’s blessings.
LeafByNiggle said:
I never said it was charity. I said it was justice.
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So, God is unjust because He gives some people more than others?
 
JonNC said:
In 2013, the top 10% of income earners earned about 46% of thr total adjusted gross income, and paid about 70% of the total income taxes paid.
The top 1% earned about 19% and paid about 38%.
Fair share

taxfoundation.org/article/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2015-update
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I’m not sure what that all really means. Some account needs to be taken of the degree to which those percentages take advantage of the various tax deductions and “Loopholes” to avoid taxation. And, we would also have to factor in what good those “loopholes” do.

One that a number of people around here do is raise a modest number of beef cattle. This is a very big beef-raising area for a number of reasons. There are lots of people of moderate to relatively high incomes who have some amount of land and raise cattle on it. For many, there is a constant effort to improve the land and the breeding stock, which costs money. They usually get to deduct those expenses. One might question the social and economic utility of that, but over the long run it really does improve production, quality and the condition of the land and water. Is it worth it to the government? I don’t think we know.

It’s very hard to put a “price” to that kind of thing. Same thing with people who buy run-down housing and fix it up to re-sell or rent. They get a lot of deductions for that, but one could argue that it increases the supply of decent housing, and thus serves a social and economic purpose.

To my understanding, the tax code is a maze of those kinds of things, plus all sorts or arcane provisions that benefit only a few.
 
ucfengr said:
And God, for whatever reason, gave some people more than others, and you, in your greater wisdom, seek to rectify God’s error by taking whatever they have that you deem God gave them inappropriately and give it to someone you think more deserving of God’s blessings.

So, God is unjust because He gives some people more than others?
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God blesses us differently and asks us to share our blessings.
 
ucfengr said:
So, what you’re saying is, God is wrong for blessing some people more than others, and it’s our collective responsibility to correct God’s mistakes by taking those excess blessings and redistributing them to people we deem more worthy.
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I believe this is exactly what the liberals think. They know better than God. Its part of their arrogance!
 
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