Republicans plan massive tax code overhaul

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Gold standard, anyone?
That started going to pieces via the Federal Reserve Act, finalized by Nixon in 1971.

Interestingly enough the Income Tax Act was passed in 1913 as well and only the wealthy were taxed at something like 1% of their incomes.
 
Seems to be the case. If we wish to talk about immorality in government, here is an excellent example. The issue is not we must raise more money. The issue is we must make our spending match our income.

I think we’re knocking on the doors of our great grandchildren. It will be difficult to pay back in excess of $100 trillion in debt.
That was my biggest problem with the wars. There is no virtue in going to war and making your grandchildren pay for it. Talk about taxation without representation!
 
Deductions is not stealing anyone’s money. If it is a deduction, that simply means it is not owed and REMAINS the property of the owner.

This is the problem with the income tax: the perception that one’s money belongs to the government unless the government lets one keep it. The obvious example recently is Trump. It isnt that he owed money but the tax laws allowed him to keep it. The reality is he never owed the money. It is his money until he is required to pay taxes.
A deduction is giving you credit for having given money to someone else. You spent it and the government is saying we will pay for some of it. Someone has to pay for you to be given that money.

Real Estate Brokers know this. Bankers know this “You aren’t really paying for all of it. You will get it back in a lower tax bill”.
 
That was my biggest problem with the wars. There is no virtue in going to war and making your grandchildren pay for it. Talk about taxation without representation!
You say very few things that I agree with. But this…this I agree with 100%.
 
A deduction is giving you credit for having given money to someone else. You spent it and the government is saying we will pay for some of it. Someone has to pay for you to be given that money.

Real Estate Brokers know this. Bankers know this “You aren’t really paying for all of it. You will get it back in a lower tax bill”.
But a lower tax bill is not the government paying part of it. The money I gave was my money. It was never the government’s money in the first place. The government never, by statute, has a tax claim on the money. So, you really have paid it all, the lower tax rate notwithstanding.
 
That was my biggest problem with the wars. There is no virtue in going to war and making your grandchildren pay for it. Talk about taxation without representation!
I agree, and that is not a statement regarding whether or not the wars were justified
 
But a lower tax bill is not the government paying part of it. The money I gave was my money. It was never the government’s money in the first place. The government never, by statute, has a tax claim on the money. So, you really have paid it all, the lower tax rate notwithstanding.
The federal, state, and local governments all have the authority to tax. You may not like it, but that is a fact. And has been a fact as long as there have been governments.

Actually, it could be argued that deductions in the USA are not legal at the federal level, as the 16th Amendment says that taxes, tariffs, etc must be applied in an uniform manner. If you live in a state that doesn’t have income taxes, then you are not getting a federal tax deduction. Doesn’t seem uniform to me. If you don’t have a mortgage, but you pay interest on credit cards, you don’t get to deduct your interest payments. Doesn’t seem uniform to me.
 
The federal, state, and local governments all have the authority to tax. You may not like it, but that is a fact. And has been a fact as long as there have been governments.

Actually, it could be argued that deductions in the USA are not legal at the federal level, as the 16th Amendment says that taxes, tariffs, etc must be applied in an uniform manner. If you live in a state that doesn’t have income taxes, then you are not getting a federal tax deduction. Doesn’t seem uniform to me. If you don’t have a mortgage, but you pay interest on credit cards, you don’t get to deduct your interest payments. Doesn’t seem uniform to me.
I’m not sure where you got the idea I oppose the authority of government to tax. There are certain kinds of taxation I oppose ( income and property taxes ), but taxation is s necessary part of living in a free society.

The un-uniform implementation of the income tax is one of the reasons I believe the 16th amendment should be repealed. Politicians use it to entice votes, using deductions on the one hand, and using class envy and demagoguery on the other.

What I disagree with is the argument that deductions taken costs the government or other people money.
 
What I disagree with is the argument that deductions taken costs the government or other people money.
Deductions cost other people money in this sense: To the extent that some people get deductions, in order to generate the same revenue, politicians will make the decision to keep the general tax rate higher, which costs everyone else. Now you may argue that a lower tax rate will generate more revenue through increased economic activity. But whether that is true or not, most politicians do not act on that assumption. So whether it makes sense or not, politicians will keep the general tax rate higher when there are deductions for some.
 
I’m not sure where you got the idea I oppose the authority of government to tax. There are certain kinds of taxation I oppose ( income and property taxes ), but taxation is s necessary part of living in a free society.

The un-uniform implementation of the income tax is one of the reasons I believe the 16th amendment should be repealed. Politicians use it to entice votes, using deductions on the one hand, and using class envy and demagoguery on the other.

What I disagree with is the argument that deductions taken costs the government or other people money.
For what it’s worth the CBO takes the rates, deductions, exemptions, deferments, credits, etc all into account when determining projected revenues. Mathematically it doesn’t matter whether you call it a deduction or exemption, for example. Only Congress makes that distinction.
 
The real problem is people want government services now, but they don’t want to pay now. This includes money for defense, interstate highways, national parks, training programs, flood, fire, tornado help, clean water, clean air, mortgage relief, etc. We are more than happy to take, but when it comes to paying, all of a sudden we all say, hey, it’s my money.
Hmmm…I don’t want several of the government services you cited. In fact, I’ve seen the government do a lousy job of managing several of the entities that you mentioned.

-I advocate for interstate highways to be privatized with toll assessed for using the highways. There would need to be oversight by the same board or a board similar to several public service commission boards that exist within states.
-Same goes for the national parks: oversight by a small number of park service employees at each location to ensure that ecological integrity is not violated. E.g. I wouldn’t want a company building a grand stand around Old Faithful or have the managing organization removing soil around the Yellowstone paint pots to sell as souvenirs.
-I would like to see the government get out of the disaster relief business. Allow organizations like Red Cross, Catholic charities, etc. to assist in these situations.
 
I believe the liberals look at all money as the government’s and you can have what they allow you to have. It seems they have absolutely no problem taking someone’s money to pay for what they (liberals) feel is necessary.

Someone mentioned we have a spending problem not an income problem. I agree totally with this statement.
 
Hmmm…I don’t want several of the government services you cited. In fact, I’ve seen the government do a lousy job of managing several of the entities that you mentioned.

-I advocate for interstate highways to be privatized with toll assessed for using the highways. There would need to be oversight by the same board or a board similar to several public service commission boards that exist within states.
-Same goes for the national parks: oversight by a small number of park service employees at each location to ensure that ecological integrity is not violated. E.g. I wouldn’t want a company building a grand stand around Old Faithful or have the managing organization removing soil around the Yellowstone paint pots to sell as souvenirs.
-I would like to see the government get out of the disaster relief business. Allow organizations like Red Cross, Catholic charities, etc. to assist in these situations.
Should those who are opposed to the wars be allowed to pay less taxes because they are against that spending?
 
I believe the liberals look at all money as the government’s and you can have what they allow you to have. It seems they have absolutely no problem taking someone’s money to pay for what they (liberals) feel is necessary.

Someone mentioned we have a spending problem not an income problem. I agree totally with this statement.
It becomes a bigger problem when income falls short of spending.
 
I believe the liberals look at all money as the government’s and you can have what they allow you to have. It seems they have absolutely no problem taking someone’s money to pay for what they (liberals) feel is necessary.

Someone mentioned we have a spending problem not an income problem. I agree totally with this statement.
Like I said before, we will always have a spending problem as long as we keep electing republicans and democrats. Neither one has any real interest in reducing the scope of government.
 
Should those who are opposed to the wars be allowed to pay less taxes because they are against that spending?
I don’t advocate privatizing the military. Nor am I advocating for people choosing not pay taxes for the forest service, interstate service, etc. UNTIL or UNLESS those particular entities are privatized at which point people would pay for usage.
 
-I would like to see the government get out of the disaster relief business. Allow organizations like Red Cross, Catholic charities, etc. to assist in these situations.
“Allow” charities to assist in disaster relief? There is nothing preventing that right now. You are essentially calling for less disaster relief, period. Is there any politician you could vote for that advocates zero disaster relief by government?
 
Hmmm…I don’t want several of the government services you cited. In fact, I’ve seen the government do a lousy job of managing several of the entities that you mentioned.

-I advocate for interstate highways to be privatized with toll assessed for using the highways. There would need to be oversight by the same board or a board similar to several public service commission boards that exist within states.
-Same goes for the national parks: oversight by a small number of park service employees at each location to ensure that ecological integrity is not violated. E.g. I wouldn’t want a company building a grand stand around Old Faithful or have the managing organization removing soil around the Yellowstone paint pots to sell as souvenirs.
-I would like to see the government get out of the disaster relief business. Allow organizations like Red Cross, Catholic charities, etc. to assist in these situations.
Since the interstate highway is a federal system, shouldn’t it be paid for by everyone. BTW, everyone benefits by having access to goods that are not produced in their state. The interstates are full of trucks that are just carrying goods from one state to another. The costs of goods will go up, both as a result of tolls and potential time lost going through toll points.

How would those park service employees raise money to pay for clean-up and enforcement. They already rely on volunteers and fund raising because their budgets do not cover what it costs to maintain them.

Given the magnitude of some disasters along with the frequency, the charities would not be able to keep up. They already work at all sorts of disasters, both large and small.

Privatizing often sounds like a wonderful alternative to government programs. However, you often lose economies from scale, you have even more bureaucracy (each company will have their own bureaucracy, forms, rules, in addition to the federal/state/local stuff,), you are open to more skimming off the top and graft (more fingers in the pie). There is no simple answer as long as people are involved. We are complicated and we make things complicated.
 
“Allow” charities to assist in disaster relief? There is nothing preventing that right now. You are essentially calling for less disaster relief, period. Is there any politician you could vote for that advocates zero disaster relief by government?
The contention is that if there were less taxes collected for FEMA purposes, people would donate more to organizations that assist in disaster relief and recovery.
 
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