Required Marital Sex

[DavidPalm]

Where do we draw a line on conversation? What scripture limits the sharing of information between persons who care about each other? We are supposed to love our enemies as we love Christ? Please explain your reasoning. Respectfully, I disagree. My friendship is important to her to support her and help her through this. I can only try to give her good information and point her in the right direction. Getting involved shows that you are genuinely concerned for a person’s well being and happiness.

Well, there’s getting involved and there’s getting involved, you know? How many thousands of guys have thought they were just helping out, until it ended up in disaster? How about having your wife in on these conversations, so that there is no opportunity for things to go awry? Honestly, if you can’t imagine having these conversations with your wife present, then I would respectfully suggest that you seriously reconsider whether you’re the right person for this situation. As a wise man told me once, just because you know of a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re the person to meet it.

 

[ARFF]

St. Paul first letter to the Corinthians.

"The husband should fulfill his duty toward his wife, and likewise the wife toward her husband. A wife does not have authority over her own body, but rather her husband, and similarly a husband does not have authority over his own body, but rather his wife. Do not deprive each other, except perhaps by mutual consent for a time, to be free for prayer, but then return to one another, so that Satan may not tempt you through your lack of self-control."

Here, implies you could be tempted if your wife does not satisfy the husband after a time. Says Satan may tempt the man, whether in his heart, body, soul or mind. Satan could just put an attractive woman right in front of the deprived male.

And Jesus said “You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery. But I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”

[Mathew 5; 27-28]​

Deprived lustful man + attractive female walking = a bad day for him.

With God’s Grace.

But how does this relate to me? I am not tempted and she is not tempted?

 

[ARFF]

Well, there’s getting involved and there’s getting involved, you know? How many thousands of guys have thought they were just helping out, until it ended up in disaster? How about having your wife in on these conversations, so that there is no opportunity for things to go awry? Honestly, if you can’t imagine having these conversations with your wife present, then I would respectfully suggest that you seriously reconsider whether you’re the right person for this situation. As a wise man told me once, just because you know of a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re the person to meet it.

My wife would not want me to be this involved with her problems. I agree with your last sentance. I am only trying to help where I can. My friend is the one who will have to make all of the decisions based on her meditation and prayers. I am only trying to get a concensus from this forum in an effort to give her relevant information that is cogent.

 

[LJN21]

Where do we draw a line on conversation? What scripture limits the sharing of information between persons who care about each other? We are supposed to love our enemies as we love Christ? Please explain your reasoning. Respectfully, I disagree. My friendship is important to her to support her and help her through this. I can only try to give her good information and point her in the right direction. Getting involved shows that you are genuinely concerned for a person’s well being and happiness. She does not want to speak with her Priest because she attends mass regularly with her husband and does not want the Priest to know about her problems. It is too embarrassing for her. She already knows what his response would be. “Seek counseling”.

If she is having marriage issues, her confidence in someone that’s a male would only make the problem worse. When a wife feels like a man other than her husband cares for her more than her husband it leads to bad things. Emotional affairs, full blown affairs and makes it very difficult to work on her marriage. She needs to seek counseling in other women, her priest or a professional counselor. She can be happy in her marriage again but it is going to take work on her part and probably marriage counseling for both of them. Love is a choice. Either you chose to love your husband and make it work or your choose to continue to not work on it and stay “out of love”.

 

[ARFF]

If she is having marriage issues, her confidence in someone that’s a male would only make the problem worse. When a wife feels like a man other than her husband cares for her more than her husband it leads to bad things. Emotional affairs, full blown affairs and makes it very difficult to work on her marriage. She needs to seek counseling in other women, her priest or a professional counselor. She can be happy in her marriage again but it is going to take work on her part and probably marriage counseling for both of them. Love is a choice. Either you chose to love your husband and make it work or your choose to continue to not work on it and stay “out of love”.

“When a wife feels like a man other than her husband cares for her more than her husband it leads to bad things.”

A male professional counselor would be disqualified because of his sex? Priests are male. I don’t know that she would believe that I care about her more than her husband. This has never been inferred.

 

[DavidPalm]

A male professional counselor would be disqualified because of his sex? Priests are male. I don’t know that she would believe that I care about her more than her husband. This has never been inferred.

Of course there are lots of male counselors and lots of pastors who have gotten involved with their female counselees. I personally think that a priest should only engage in this sort of counsel in the confessional with a screen. That physical barrier helps provide an emotional barrier as well.

 

[tuviskazinai]

A few personal thoughts, if it’s not too much…

I don’t think any of us knows enough about the OP’s situation to be able to say whether his friend’s confidence in him is putting anyone into any dubious ethical situations…I think it’s entirely possible, even laudable, for people of the opposite sex to have close friendships without any trace of temptation towards adultery. Sure, the OP should be careful, but now that we’ve raised that issue already…I don’t think we should presume that women should only be able to seek advice from other women.

At the same time, nor do I feel that any friend’s advice, no matter how good a friend that person may be, is a fitting substitute to professional help (if the situation is really that bad) or, especially, to open communication with her husband. (On that topic, I agree with Becks’s point that the couple should be making decisions together.)

One other thing I will add…hopefully, ARFF, you are right that your friend’s husband isn’t suspicious, and has no reason to be suspicious, about your friendship with his wife. But with all due respect, I do detect in some of your posts a personal leaning towards divorce as a permanent solution to this (in all likelihood, temporary) problem; and that is something that I think your friend’s husband could rightfully be upset over. I know from experience that things can get really ugly when someone suggests divorce to a married person behind the spouse’s back. I am a Catholic and I believe divorce is wrong, but even putting those personal beliefs aside, divorce is something to be discussed within a marriage and within a marriage, alone. No matter how well-meaning you may be, I don’t think it is anyone’s business or right to come in from outside of a marriage and suggest that kind of thing to a woman behind her husband’s back…to presume to know what is best while the husband is not around…to plant those seeds of doubt, which can only fracture the marriage. In my mind, that definitely crosses some sort of line.

That said, many apologies if I am reading too much into your comments or misunderstanding where you are coming from. I think it’s great that you are doing everything possible to be there for your friend, including respecting her religion enough that you would seek advice from other Catholics. Best of luck to all three of you in this situation.

Peace,
+AMDG+

 

[ARFF]

A few personal thoughts, if it’s not too much…

I don’t think any of us knows enough about the OP’s situation to be able to say whether his friend’s confidence in him is putting anyone into any dubious ethical situations…I think it’s entirely possible, even laudable, for people of the opposite sex to have close friendships without any trace of temptation towards adultery. Sure, the OP should be careful, but now that we’ve raised that issue already…I don’t think we should presume that women should only be able to seek advice from other women.

At the same time, nor do I feel that any friend’s advice, no matter how good a friend that person may be, is a fitting substitute to professional help (if the situation is really that bad) or, especially, to open communication with her husband. (On that topic, I agree with Becks’s point that the couple should be making decisions together.)

One other thing I will add…hopefully, ARFF, you are right that your friend’s husband isn’t suspicious, and has no reason to be suspicious, about your friendship with his wife. But with all due respect, I do detect in some of your posts a personal leaning towards divorce as a permanent solution to this (in all likelihood, temporary) problem; and that is something that I think your friend’s husband could rightfully be upset over. I know from experience that things can get really ugly when someone suggests divorce to a married person behind the spouse’s back. I am a Catholic and I believe divorce is wrong, but even putting those personal beliefs aside, divorce is something to be discussed within a marriage and within a marriage, alone. No matter how well-meaning you may be, I don’t think it is anyone’s business or right to come in from outside of a marriage and suggest that kind of thing to a woman behind her husband’s back…to presume to know what is best while the husband is not around…to plant those seeds of doubt, which can only fracture the marriage. In my mind, that definitely crosses some sort of line.

That said, many apologies if I am reading too much into your comments or misunderstanding where you are coming from. I think it’s great that you are doing everything possible to be there for your friend, including respecting her religion enough that you would seek advice from other Catholics. Best of luck to all three of you in this situation.

Peace,
+AMDG+

I agree with all of your comments! I just need to add that I am not planting any seeds.

 

[LJN21]

A male professional counselor would be disqualified because of his sex? Priests are male. I don’t know that she would believe that I care about her more than her husband. This has never been inferred.

She is talking to you about her sex life or lack there of. Alarm bell number one.
You stated that she’s being taken advantage of by her husband (read: he doesn’t really care for her the way he should) Alarm bell number two.
Your being supportive and caring in this situation where its been inferred that her husband is an unjust aggressor on her person. Alarm bell number three.
She is unwilling to go seek anyone else for help. This is the MAJOR problem.

Yes its possible for priests and councilors to develop an unhealthy relationship with numbers of the opposite sex who come to them for council. It happens, but it is far less likely because they are (at least supposed to be) professionals and have barriers and protections already in place to prevent this.

I definitely agree with a previous poster, if you wouldn’t want your wife to her the conversation you shouldn’t be having it. Period.

 

[ARFF]

She is talking to you about her sex life or lack there of. Alarm bell number one.
You stated that she’s being taken advantage of by her husband (read: he doesn’t really care for her the way he should) Alarm bell number two.
Your being supportive and caring in this situation where its been inferred that her husband is an unjust aggressor on her person. Alarm bell number three.
She is unwilling to go seek anyone else for help. This is the MAJOR problem.

Yes its possible for priests and councilors to develop an unhealthy relationship with numbers of the opposite sex who come to them for council. It happens, but it is far less likely because they are (at least supposed to be) professionals and have barriers and protections already in place to prevent this.

I definitely agree with a previous poster, if you wouldn’t want your wife to her the conversation you shouldn’t be having it. Period.

Respectfully, I disagree. I do not feel guilty for committing any sin. I do not even consider praying for forgiveness because I have had an intimate conversation with a friend who trusts me in order to support and help a friend in need. I do appreciate your comments.

 

[ARFF]

A few personal thoughts, if it’s not too much…

I don’t think any of us knows enough about the OP’s situation to be able to say whether his friend’s confidence in him is putting anyone into any dubious ethical situations…I think it’s entirely possible, even laudable, for people of the opposite sex to have close friendships without any trace of temptation towards adultery. Sure, the OP should be careful, but now that we’ve raised that issue already…I don’t think we should presume that women should only be able to seek advice from other women.

At the same time, nor do I feel that any friend’s advice, no matter how good a friend that person may be, is a fitting substitute to professional help (if the situation is really that bad) or, especially, to open communication with her husband. (On that topic, I agree with Becks’s point that the couple should be making decisions together.)

One other thing I will add…hopefully, ARFF, you are right that your friend’s husband isn’t suspicious, and has no reason to be suspicious, about your friendship with his wife. But with all due respect, I do detect in some of your posts a personal leaning towards divorce as a permanent solution to this (in all likelihood, temporary) problem; and that is something that I think your friend’s husband could rightfully be upset over. I know from experience that things can get really ugly when someone suggests divorce to a married person behind the spouse’s back. I am a Catholic and I believe divorce is wrong, but even putting those personal beliefs aside, divorce is something to be discussed within a marriage and within a marriage, alone. No matter how well-meaning you may be, I don’t think it is anyone’s business or right to come in from outside of a marriage and suggest that kind of thing to a woman behind her husband’s back…to presume to know what is best while the husband is not around…to plant those seeds of doubt, which can only fracture the marriage. In my mind, that definitely crosses some sort of line.

That said, many apologies if I am reading too much into your comments or misunderstanding where you are coming from. I think it’s great that you are doing everything possible to be there for your friend, including respecting her religion enough that you would seek advice from other Catholics. Best of luck to all three of you in this situation.

Peace,
+AMDG+

Your comment,

“I think it’s great that you are doing everything possible to be there for your friend, including respecting her religion enough that you would seek advice from other Catholics.”

is what it is all about. Thank-you so much!
Peace be with you.

 

[LJN21]

Respectfully, I disagree. I do not feel guilty for committing any sin. I do not even consider praying for forgiveness because I have had an intimate conversation with a friend who trusts me in order to support and help a friend in need. I do appreciate your comments.

I didn’t say you were committing any sin. I was pointing out where it was inferred she could think you cared more than her own husband. I had a guy friend I trusted once and didn’t think anything bad would happen too… well… nothing bad did happen but it was only because a 3rd party got involved and help fix my marriage instead of letting it getting destroyed by the trusted friend and my own emotions. Its way to easy for a woman to attach emotional feelings to another guy when their husband is being a twerp.

 

[kage_ar]

Did I understand you to say that your wife would not want you to have these conversations?

 

[ARFF]

I didn’t say you were committing any sin. I was pointing out where it was inferred she could think you cared more than her own husband. I had a guy friend I trusted once and didn’t think anything bad would happen too… well… nothing bad did happen but it was only because a 3rd party got involved and help fix my marriage instead of letting it getting destroyed by the trusted friend and my own emotions. Its way to easy for a woman to attach emotional feelings to another guy when their husband is being a twerp.

I see. Your response was based on experience. I understand your feelings now. It just goes to show you how these responses can be subjective. That is why a concensus is necessary to try and get to the best solution. Catholic clergy will answer more alike but they will be mostly aligned with the gospel and other scriptures. I can interpret those scriptures (including the ones presented in this thread) easily. I believe it is more realistic to do your own research reading other Catholic’s response in a forum like this and get professional advice as well to get the best advice. Many times, professional counslors will not agree either. I think we all can see by the diversity in these posts, many people have different opinions. That is good. This is America and freedom of speech, particularly about religious belief is a God given right. Thank-you for sharing.

 

[ARFF]

Did I understand you to say that your wife would not want you to have these conversations?

Yes, as another female, I don’t believe she would understand. It would start an argument. I don’t want to go down that road. If the shoe were on the other foot and she had conversations like this with one of her co-workers about about their problems I would not care. I would hope she could talk to me about it but what I don’t know wouldn’t hurt me. Particularly if it wasn’t my concern. I am not insecure in my marraige.

 

[kage_ar]

Yes, as another female, I don’t believe she would understand. It would start an argument. I don’t want to go down that road. If the shoe were on the other foot and she had conversations like this with one of her co-workers about about their problems I would not care. I would hope she could talk to me about it but what I don’t know wouldn’t hurt me. Particularly if it wasn’t my concern. I am not insecure in my marraige.

That’d be the answer for me. I do not have conversations with friends of the opposite sex that I’d not have in front of my spouse.

She needs to seek her Priest, this can be brought up in the Confessional and her Priest will assist her.

 

[ARFF]

Of course there are lots of male counselors and lots of pastors who have gotten involved with their female counselees. I personally think that a priest should only engage in this sort of counsel in the confessional with a screen. That physical barrier helps provide an emotional barrier as well.

Good advice but I believe the confessional session would take a very long time. Besides that, she would have to go to another church for fear that the Priest would recognize her voice.

 

[CathFaith1]

Yes, as another female, I don’t believe she would understand. It would start an argument. I don’t want to go down that road.

A wife is entitled to such intimacy.

The overall problem in the ‘original’ post appears to be a misunderstanding of love. Love is an act of the will, not a chemical attraction. There is also a sacrificial element of love.

 

[ARFF]

That’d be the answer for me. I do not have conversations with friends of the opposite sex that I’d not have in front of my spouse.

She needs to seek her Priest, this can be brought up in the Confessional and her Priest will assist her.

That is interesting. I appreciate your comments. I have had many conversations with many of my friends, male and female, that I do not talk to my wife about. They trust me to honer their privacy.

 

[ARFF]

A wife is entitled to such intimacy.

The overall problem in the ‘original’ post appears to be a misunderstanding of love. Love is an act of the will, not a chemical attraction. There is also a sacrificial element of love.

I agree she may be entitled… but that is at my discretion of presenting the information to her. There is nothing in any scripture that I am aware of that states I have to repeat everything I hear to my wife.

I agree with you that there is a gross “misunderstanding”. I believe my friend’s husband doesn’t understand his wife’s feelings towards intimacy because she is not sending the proper signals and effectively communicating her feelings because of guilt. I don’t understand why he can’t sense a problem.