Resources on Seventh-Day Adventism

[pedja]

But what we do know for sure, is that Christ established a church when he has left Peter in Charge which is what it now known as The Catholic Church which is under the guidance of the Holy Spirit

“Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” -St Ignatius of Anitoch

… this could lead into another endless debate of how the church was actually not established on Peter but on Jesus (even Peter says it)…

 

[St_Violet]

“always find”?!? I’ve been an SDA for over 40 years and have never heard of some of things you have said. Like this one: “to where they believe the Pope’s hat bares the mark 666”. Please double-check your source(s).

You are assuming that a church is a single entitiy and a monolithic whole. We know that that there are people claim to be SDA’s but who don’t practice what they ahve been told. Likewise, we also know that there are Catholics who disagree with the Pope. Therefore there is NO contradiction when we make a distinction between people and system. The Bible also agrees with that concept: Revelation 18:4 “And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” That is, Babylon and the people within it are two seperate entities–they are not one and the same.

I never met a practicing catholic who disagrees with our Pope. but again I was just expressing How impressed I was on how people are capabale of this false character, and I guess I should reword what I said. I happen to come across this false character alot when I encounter an SDA when the hot topic is Catholocism, how’s that?

You never heard of the rumor of the Pope’s mitre carrying the number 666? , which ellen white claimed GOD has shown her and turned out to be false, infact there are still seventh day adventists out there who still believe in this false claim. anyways here the back ground.

The SDA claimed that the popes mitre carries the words “Vicarills Filii Dei (Vicar of the Son of God)” translated it into latin and then changed them into roman numerals and added them all up which equalled 666, now to any average joe they’d think " oh dear heavens!", but it turned out that the pope’s mitre did not say Vicarills Filii Dei (Vicar of the Son of God), if anything the Pope’s mitre actually says Vicar of Christ forgot how you say it in latin but certainly does not equal 666, they have discovered that Ellen G white’s number equals to 666 without any mistakes of her name.

 

[St_Violet]

It isn’t just that simple. There’s other verses that relate to it. The whole must be considered. It’s because the whole isn’t considered that we have all the different denominations today.

well try it, the SDA often does it that simple in their revelation seminars

 

[St_Violet]

Lots of people think the same; unfortunately, it is not biblical.

well perhaps I should go back in time and tell the early church fathers and that probabaly it wasn’t a good idea to have asked us to gather on the Lord’s Day

 

[djconklin]

I never met a practicing catholic who disagrees with our Pope.

Not with the Pope. I recall reading about American Catholics opposed to the position of the papacy on abortion and birth control.

One study said 70% were opposed to “denying communion to politicians who support legal abortion, a move urged by several bishops and an issue that briefly surfaced in last year’s election campaign.” (See washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/25/AR2005042501341_pf.html)

 

[djconklin]

You never heard of the rumor of the Pope’s mitre carrying the number 666? , which ellen white claimed GOD has shown her and turned out to be false, infact there are still seventh day adventists out there who still believe in this false claim. anyways here the back ground.

The SDA claimed that the popes mitre carries the words “Vicarills Filii Dei (Vicar of the Son of God)” translated it into latin and then changed them into roman numerals and added them all up which equalled 666, now to any average joe they’d think " oh dear heavens!", but it turned out that the pope’s mitre did not say Vicarills Filii Dei (Vicar of the Son of God), if anything the Pope’s mitre actually says Vicar of Christ forgot how you say it in latin but certainly does not equal 666, they have discovered that Ellen G white’s number equals to 666 without any mistakes of her name.

Ah! Just as I expected! There was no claim by any SDA that the Pope’s mitre had the number 666 on it. Now, if you’d keep up to date you would have known that Dr. Bacchiocchi had proven that the claim that the papal mitre had the words “Vacrius Filii Dei” on it to be false. The church picked up that claim from other Protestants–they did not create it. They assumed that they were being told the truth. Now we know better.

 

[djconklin]

Originally Posted by djconklin
It isn’t just that simple. There’s other verses that relate to it. The whole must be considered. It’s because the whole isn’t considered that we have all the different denominations today.

well try it, the SDA often does it that simple in their revelation seminars

I recently finished watching Doug Batchelor do a Revelation Seminar in NYC.* While it was a simplified version of the whole study we take people through they did not rely on one verse to make their case. They usually presented a dozen to 18 verses per night.

*You can find the series on youtube.com

 

[djconklin]

Originally Posted by djconklin
Lots of people think the same; unfortunately, it is not biblical.

well perhaps I should go back in time and tell the early church fathers and that probabaly it wasn’t a good idea to have asked us to gather on the Lord’s Day

Apparently (we have no written detailed records available to us) the churches in Rome and Alexandria started it because the Christian communities were being confused with the Jews (since they both kept the Sabbath) in about 135 A.D. when the Jews had launched another revolt against Rome.

Being a stubborn Irish-German I would have been willing to die for principle expecting the good Lord to work something out. If not, then like the three Hebrew worthies I still would not have bowed the knee.

 

[MarysRoses]

I recently finished watching Doug Batchelor do a Revelation Seminar in NYC.* While it was a simplified version of the whole study we take people through they did not rely on one verse to make their case. They usually presented a dozen to 18 verses per night.

*You can find the series on youtube.com

As a former Adventist, trained to help present similar seminars, I know exactly what you are talking about. The 'letting the Bible interpret itself".

Problem is this… by linking a dozen or so verses from various books from different times, authors and contexts, you can prove darn near anything. I can prove the existence of unicorns as easily as the investigative judgment. Both, in my opinion, have about as much validity.

We can argue interpretation of various verses forever without resolution. That is why I accept that there is an authoritative source of scriptural interpretation. The Church that Jesus founded.

The intention of the OP was to share resources on Adventism, If you want to argue various points, feel free to start a thread.

MarysRoses

 

[MarysRoses]

Ah! Just as I expected! There was no claim by any SDA that the Pope’s mitre had the number 666 on it. Now, if you’d keep up to date you would have known that Dr. Bacchiocchi had proven that the claim that the papal mitre had the words “Vacrius Filii Dei” on it to be false. The church picked up that claim from other Protestants–they did not create it. They assumed that they were being told the truth. Now we know better.

I have seen one of Doug Batchelor’s presentation that included this old, tired myth. Along with many others. He doesn’t seem to have a problem using false material if it will sway his listeners.

MarysRoses

 

[Maria1212]

There are several things that we always need to remember:
2) Just because the interepretation “sounded” anti-Catholic that doesn’t mean that it actually was. Note also that she is talking about “the principles of the Roman Catholic Church” note the people.
.

One cannot separate the Catholic Church from Catholics. It is individual Catholics that make up the Church. The people ARE the Church.

I started this thread to keep a list of running sources on SDA from the Catholic perspective, and to seek opinions from other posters on whether the sites accurately portrayed Adventist teaching. There are numerous other threads debating SDA doctrine.

For posters who would like to discuss Adventist teaching and doctrine, or Catholic teachings, please do so on a different thread.

Thank you for your cooperation. And thank you to everyone for taking the time to post. I look forward to continuing to discuss Adventist teaching on a different thread.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[djconklin]

Problem is this… by linking a dozen or so verses from various books from different times, authors and contexts, you can prove darn near anything. I can prove the existence of unicorns as easily as the investigative judgment.

No scholar would object to using different authors from differnt times and different contexts. So, why should I?

The IJ is a quite biblical doctrine. While the KJV uses the word “unicorn” any decent lexicon will inform you that it is a “wild bull.”

 

[djconklin]

I have seen one of Doug Batchelor’s presentation that included this old, tired myth. Along with many others. He doesn’t seem to have a problem using false material if it will sway his listeners.

I note the distinct lack of proof. This is a quite common tactic for anti-SDA critics. Through up anything and hope that something sticks.

 

[djconklin]

One cannot separate the Catholic Church from Catholics. It is individual Catholics that make up the Church. The people ARE the Church.

The people of the church didn’t set up what its teachings would be. Likewise in the SDA church (thank heavens!). If what you said were true then God would have to say “Come out of her my people.”

 

[Maria1212]

The people of the church didn’t set up what its teachings would be. Likewise in the SDA church (thank heavens!). If what you said were true then God would have to say “Come out of her my people.”

I disagree with your opinion that you can separate the Church from the people. In your previous posts you implied that while the Adventist Church teaches anti-Catholic doctrine, it is not anti-Catholic because it separates Catholics from the Catholic Church. Which is not possible. I will be happy to debate this on a NEW thread.

Please respect my earlier post that stated:

I started this thread to keep a list of running sources on SDA from the Catholic perspective, and to seek opinions from other posters on whether the sites accurately portrayed Adventist teaching. There are numerous other threads debating SDA doctrine. For posters who would like to discuss Adventist teaching and doctrine, or Catholic teachings, please do so on a different thread.

Thank you for your cooperation. And thank you to everyone for taking the time to post. I look forward to continuing to discuss Adventist teaching on a different thread.

 

[adventistnomore]

The people of the church didn’t set up what its teachings would be.

Yes, churches decide to make people; not the other way around.

 

[Protestant101]

You say the pamphlets incorrectly interpret the bible. Do the Adventists then have a method by which they interpret the Bible that somehow makes it more correct that the way the Catholics interpret the bible through the authority given by Jesus Christ?

My understanding is that Adventists interpret the bible as directed by Ellen White since she is considered a prophet. Some of the Progressive Adventist do not however consider her a prophet because of her false predictions etc. It seems to me that if you reject this belief of the Adventists and do not believe that Ellen White is a prophet then the rest of the faith comes tumbling down because you now no longer have a basis or an authority by which you can interpret the bible.

You have aptly stated one of the finest myths about Adventists which are put out by anti-Adventist cults.

First, if you read the Bible account of tests of a prophet; a prophet does not always have or carry out the interpretation of scripture. They have many other mandates given them by God.

Prophets will give a message that God has given them; and this is what Ellen White has always done in her ministry.

Adventists “interpret” the Bible, using the Bible; while Ellen White has always strived to point people to the Bible. Our doctrines are not originated in Ellen White. (yes, I am well aware of what anti-adventists say about that).

It is interesting how certain individuals on this forum tend to hi-jack every topic related to Adventists, to discussions about Ellen White, the Sabbath, the investigative judgment; etc.

I have personally found many people in the Adventist Church who are true Christians with the love of Jesus in their hearts. They just love me! Period! No strings attached! They don’t even care if I am Adventist; they just love me; it is so easy to see!

Some of you people simply do not know Adventists the way you say you do on this forum. Most that I have ever met in over 20 years do not come close to the ogres you paint them up to be.

But, conversely, very few Catholics come close to the demons they are sometimes portrayed as…On an official basis, it is only the belief or the doctrine that we may say is “anti-Christ.” We don’t hate you guys any more than you do us.

 

[Protestant101]

I note the distinct lack of proof. This is a quite common tactic for anti-SDA critics. Through up anything and hope that something sticks.

I have seen one of Doug Batchelor’s presentation that included this old, tired myth. Along with many others. He doesn’t seem to have a problem using false material if it will sway his listeners.

It is quite common to see the motive of people “examined” when they try to explain something from the Bible that is not there. Some Adventists do this. Some Catholics do this.

 

[Maria1212]

For the third time:
**
For posters who would like to discuss Adventist teaching and doctrine, or Catholic teachings, please do so on a different thread.**

Please reserve this thread for posts on SDA resources.

 

[St_Violet]

Ah! Just as I expected! There was no claim by any SDA that the Pope’s mitre had the number 666 on it. Now, if you’d keep up to date you would have known that Dr. Bacchiocchi had proven that the claim that the papal mitre had the words “Vacrius Filii Dei” on it to be false. The church picked up that claim from other Protestants–they did not create it. They assumed that they were being told the truth. Now we know better.

keep up with the date?. I always knew this claim was false, and I mentioned that there are still seventh day adventists out still spread this numbo jumbo, the first time it was brought to my attention was by an adventist and that was just a few months ago. and not to mention Ellen G white herself said that GOD has shown this to her, the same woman the SDA based their religion on. Even if they assumed they were being told the truth, Ellen White claims it was shown to her by GOD