Resources on Seventh-Day Adventism

[St_Violet]

I recently finished watching Doug Batchelor do a Revelation Seminar in NYC.* While it was a simplified version of the whole study we take people through they did not rely on one verse to make their case. They usually presented a dozen to 18 verses per night.

*You can find the series on youtube.com

Doug Batchelor, the same man who claimed the Catholic Church forced people to drink water and the water happened to be mixed with little tiny peices of glass so that when someone drank the water, the tiny peices of glass will mess up their vocal cords so they will no longer preach? which was debunked many many times

Amazing Facts Doug Batchelor?.

The Same Doug Batchelor who critized the movie the passion of the christ, only because it was Made by a catholic?

lets not get into doug batchelor

 

[Protestant101]

Good idea Maria1212!

Yeah, there are a few good internet resources for Catholic Apologetics to Adventists. These are my top 3, in no particular order:
.

1. 
   *]DiesDomini.com. An academic approach; ever-expanding library of scholarly essays, research papers, and documents.
   
   .
   *]SDA2RC.com. A great site for inquirers; very personal in tone. With articles on all major issues, this is an excellent starting point for web-surfers.
   
   .
   *]Sabbath-keepers blog. A Catholic blog responding to the claims of Adventists. Also: Adventism v. Catholicism by the same author. Large library of articles (easily the most extensive) responding to most Adventist arguments.
   
   What are your thoughts of the above 3? Why not visit each and review them on this thread? It’d be a great way to become acquainted with each!
   .

1. 
   You invited us to discuss points made on these sites; but Maria 1212 says to not do this. Guess I had better give up on this thread. I have reviewd these sites, and found them all to be sadly lacking in truth about Adventists. True; they are “apologetic” but they have little basis in the correct facts.

 

[St_Violet]

I note the distinct lack of proof. This is a quite common tactic for anti-SDA critics. Through up anything and hope that something sticks.

She didn’t make this up nor is there any tactic, MaryRoses is a former adventist, she knows what she’s talking about.

I understand your a fan of Doug Batchelor, but I can undestand how the truth could hurt.

 

[St_Violet]

Sorry Maria, I just read what you said.

 

[Maria1212]

You invited us to discuss points made on these sites; but Maria 1212 says to not do this. Guess I had better give up on this thread. I have reviewd these sites, and found them all to be sadly lacking in truth about Adventists. True; they are “apologetic” but they have little basis in the correct facts.

Please refrain from twisting my posts. I welcomed everyone`s opinions on specific resources. But I requested debates on teaching and doctrine be moved to a new thread to keep the discussion focused.

We repeatedly asked where specific mistakes were and failed to get a response. Again, we welcome everyone`s opinion on whether the sources accurately represent Adventist teaching. Whether you disagree with the conclusions drawn from those facts is a different matter. If you want to discuss doctrine, please open a new thread.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[Maria1212]

Sorry Maria, I just read what you said.

No problem. Thank you for opening a new thread! I look forward to continuing the discussion, but didnt want to make it difficult for posters down the road who wanted to find resources and links. In other words, I didnt want the resources to get lost in “the weeds.”

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=155000

Thank you again!

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[MarysRoses]

I note the distinct lack of proof. This is a quite common tactic for anti-SDA critics. Through up anything and hope that something sticks.

proof, for a seminar which was presented live as a class, is asking a bit much, but hey, whats the internet for??

So… Doug Batchelor presented a series called the Prophecy Code.
Here is the link to the bible lessons:

prophecycode.com/

And yes, its Doug Batchelor:

prophecycode.com/about-speaker.asp

Here are the actual bible lessons, with a picture of Doug Batchelor presenting his seminar:

bibleprophecytruth.com/biblestudy/biblestudylessons.asp

And here is the lesson on 666 and the mark of the beast:

bibleprophecytruth.com/BibleStudy/main-study.asp?Lesson=20&ID=10&CLanguage=en

Because you can’t see the lesson on 666 unless you complete a dozen or so previous lessons, I’ll paste the relevant paragraph. (I did them quick, I know the answers )

"K. It would have the mysterious number 666 (Revelation 13:18).
This verse says, “It is the number of a man,” and Revelation 15:2 says it is “the number of his name.” What man do you think of when you think of the papacy? Naturally, we all think of the pope. What is his official name? Here is a Catholic quote: "The title of the pope of Rome is “Vicarius Filii Dei” (English: “Vicar of the Son of God”).6 Malachi Martin, in The Keys of This Blood, uses the same title for the pope on pages 114, 122. A footnote for Revelation 13:18 in some Douay [Catholic] versions of the Bible says, “The numeral letters of his name shall make up this number.” Notice the chart at right, which shows what happens when we total up the Roman numeral value of the letters of the name.

Again, the papacy fits the identification point. The beast with the “mark” is the papacy. No other power in history could possibly fit these divine descriptive points. Now that we have positively identified the beast, we can discover her mark, or symbol of authority. But first, let’s look at God’s sign of authority."

So, here is proof. You miss the chart and the visuals of the seminar though. The website only has the chart, at the seminar, there was a slide of one of the papal tiaras.

I can’t imagine why you’d say I was just throwing this out. But here’s the proof.

MarysRoses

 

[St_Violet]

BURN!!!

 

[adventistnomore]

I have reviewed these sites, and found them all to be sadly lacking in truth about Adventists. True; they are “apologetic” but they have little basis in the correct facts.

Um, the first one (diesdomini.com) embraces dozens of essays written by Adventist theologians. How is it “sadly lacking in truth about Adventists”?

 

[adventistnomore]

proof, for a seminar which was presented live as a class, is asking a bit much, but hey, whats the internet for??

So… Doug Batchelor presented a series called the Prophecy Code.
Here is the link to the bible lessons:

prophecycode.com/

And yes, its Doug Batchelor:

prophecycode.com/about-speaker.asp

Here are the actual bible lessons, with a picture of Doug Batchelor presenting his seminar:

bibleprophecytruth.com/biblestudy/biblestudylessons.asp

And here is the lesson on 666 and the mark of the beast:

bibleprophecytruth.com/BibleStudy/main-study.asp?Lesson=20&ID=10&CLanguage=en

Because you can’t see the lesson on 666 unless you complete a dozen or so previous lessons, I’ll paste the relevant paragraph. (I did them quick, I know the answers )

"K. It would have the mysterious number 666 (Revelation 13:18).
This verse says, “It is the number of a man,” and Revelation 15:2 says it is “the number of his name.” What man do you think of when you think of the papacy? Naturally, we all think of the pope. What is his official name? Here is a Catholic quote: "The title of the pope of Rome is “Vicarius Filii Dei” (English: “Vicar of the Son of God”).6 Malachi Martin, in The Keys of This Blood, uses the same title for the pope on pages 114, 122. A footnote for Revelation 13:18 in some Douay [Catholic] versions of the Bible says, “The numeral letters of his name shall make up this number.” Notice the chart at right, which shows what happens when we total up the Roman numeral value of the letters of the name.

Again, the papacy fits the identification point. The beast with the “mark” is the papacy. No other power in history could possibly fit these divine descriptive points. Now that we have positively identified the beast, we can discover her mark, or symbol of authority. But first, let’s look at God’s sign of authority."

So, here is proof. You miss the chart and the visuals of the seminar though. The website only has the chart, at the seminar, there was a slide of one of the papal tiaras.

I can’t imagine why you’d say I was just throwing this out. But here’s the proof.

MarysRoses

Ooooooooooooooooo. Caught red-handed.

 

[Maria1212]

proof, for a seminar which was presented live as a class, is asking a bit much, but hey, whats the internet for??

So… Doug Batchelor presented a series called the Prophecy Code.
Here is the link to the bible lessons:

prophecycode.com/

And yes, its Doug Batchelor:

prophecycode.com/about-speaker.asp

Here are the actual bible lessons, with a picture of Doug Batchelor presenting his seminar:

bibleprophecytruth.com/biblestudy/biblestudylessons.asp

And here is the lesson on 666 and the mark of the beast:

bibleprophecytruth.com/BibleStudy/main-study.asp?Lesson=20&ID=10&CLanguage=en

Because you can’t see the lesson on 666 unless you complete a dozen or so previous lessons, I’ll paste the relevant paragraph. (I did them quick, I know the answers )

"K. It would have the mysterious number 666 (Revelation 13:18).
This verse says, “It is the number of a man,” and Revelation 15:2 says it is “the number of his name.” What man do you think of when you think of the papacy? Naturally, we all think of the pope. What is his official name? Here is a Catholic quote: "The title of the pope of Rome is “Vicarius Filii Dei” (English: “Vicar of the Son of God”).6 Malachi Martin, in The Keys of This Blood, uses the same title for the pope on pages 114, 122. A footnote for Revelation 13:18 in some Douay [Catholic] versions of the Bible says, “The numeral letters of his name shall make up this number.” Notice the chart at right, which shows what happens when we total up the Roman numeral value of the letters of the name.

Again, the papacy fits the identification point. The beast with the “mark” is the papacy. No other power in history could possibly fit these divine descriptive points. Now that we have positively identified the beast, we can discover her mark, or symbol of authority. But first, let’s look at God’s sign of authority."

So, here is proof. You miss the chart and the visuals of the seminar though. The website only has the chart, at the seminar, there was a slide of one of the papal tiaras.

I can’t imagine why you’d say I was just throwing this out. But here’s the proof.

MarysRoses

Thank you for taking the time to write this excellent post! Thank you for taking the time to back up what you say with sources and links that we can visit. No one can claim your sources are “anti-Adventist” when you use Adventist materials.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[St_Violet]

Not with the Pope. I recall reading about American Catholics opposed to the position of the papacy on abortion and birth control.

One study said 70% were opposed to “denying communion to politicians who support legal abortion, a move urged by several bishops and an issue that briefly surfaced in last year’s election campaign.” (See washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/25/AR2005042501341_pf.html)

I tottally and the majority of my fellow catholics agree that the catholic politicans that are in support of abortion should be denied of communion. for their stance of murdering infants is not what the Catholic Church supports.

 

[MarysRoses]

Because you can’t see the lesson on 666 unless you complete a dozen or so previous lessons, I’ll paste the relevant paragraph. (I did them quick, I know the answers )

"K. It would have the mysterious number 666 (Revelation 13:18).
This verse says, “It is the number of a man,” and Revelation 15:2 says it is “the number of his name.” What man do you think of when you think of the papacy? Naturally, we all think of the pope. What is his official name? Here is a Catholic quote: "The title of the pope of Rome is “Vicarius Filii Dei” (English: “Vicar of the Son of God”).6 Malachi Martin, in The Keys of This Blood, uses the same title for the pope on pages 114, 122. A footnote for Revelation 13:18 in some Douay [Catholic] versions of the Bible says, “The numeral letters of his name shall make up this number.” Notice the chart at right, which shows what happens when we total up the Roman numeral value of the letters of the name.

Again, the papacy fits the identification point. The beast with the “mark” is the papacy. No other power in history could possibly fit these divine descriptive points. Now that we have positively identified the beast, we can discover her mark, or symbol of authority. But first, let’s look at God’s sign of authority."

Now that I’ve established this was included in the seminar, lets look more closely.

Here is a Catholic quote: "The title of the pope of Rome is “Vicarius Filii Dei” (English: “Vicar of the Son of God”)

Read this again in context carefully. What is the source of the ‘Catholic quote’? Its not given. look again. Yet the claim is made that this is the Pope’s official name, which is false.

6 Malachi Martin, in The Keys of This Blood, uses the same title for the pope on pages 114, 122.

Hoping that we don’t notice there is no source for the ‘catholic quote’, he quickly adds that Malachi Martin also uses the same title.

Malachi Martin is a former Jesuit Priest and controversial author (now deceased) of sensationalist novels and ‘non fiction’ works that detail wildly speculative conspiracy theories involving Satanism and the Vatican. Tch! hardly a good catholic source.

"A footnote for Revelation 13:18 in some Douay [Catholic] versions of the Bible says, “The numeral letters of his name shall make up this number.”

Many protestant bibles would offer the same observation. This does not mean that this is an endorsement of Adventist suppositions about this title or the number 666. Yet it is used in such a fashion as to suggest that Catholic sources support the Adventist interpretation.

I find the entire prophecy seminar ‘lessons’ to be similarly sensationalist and manipulative.

Adventist prophecy theories fall apart when you try to verify the content from primary sources.

MarysRoses

 

[St_Violet]

out of curiousity, is Dr. Bacchiocchi that same guy who disproved that the Waldens kept the sabbath?

 

[Maria1212]

I tottally and the majority of my fellow catholics agree that the catholic politicans that are in support of abortion should be denied of communion. for their stance of murdering infants is not what the Catholic Church supports.

Amen!! And while som Catholics individually choose abortion over the life of an unborn child, their personal opinion does not change official Church doctrine.

I agree with MarysRoses`s above post where she highlights the importance of using primary sources to see whether an assumed “truth” or assumption is correct.

Just as I was taught in school, when you cite something, source it! And use the primary source, not someone else`s writing on the source. That is how things get twisted and taken out of context.
Sincerely,

Maria1212

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[Maria1212]

I tottally and the majority of my fellow catholics agree that the catholic politicans that are in support of abortion should be denied of communion. for their stance of murdering infants is not what the Catholic Church supports.

Amen!! And while som Catholics individually choose abortion over the life of an unborn child, their personal opinion does not change official Church doctrine.

I agree with MarysRoses`s above post where she highlights the importance of using primary sources to see whether an assumed “truth” or assumption is correct.

Just as I was taught in school, when you cite something, source it! And use the primary source, not someone else`s writing on the source. That is how things get twisted and taken out of context.
Sincerely,

Maria1212

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[Maria1212]

I tottally and the majority of my fellow catholics agree that the catholic politicans that are in support of abortion should be denied of communion. for their stance of murdering infants is not what the Catholic Church supports.

Amen!! And while som Catholics individually choose abortion over the life of an unborn child, their personal opinion does not change official Church doctrine.

I agree with MarysRoses`s above post where she highlights the importance of using primary sources to see whether an assumed “truth” or assumption is correct.

Just as I was taught in school, when you cite something, source it! And use the primary source, not someone else`s writing on the source. That is how things get twisted and taken out of context.
Sincerely,

Maria1212

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[Maria1212]

I tottally and the majority of my fellow catholics agree that the catholic politicans that are in support of abortion should be denied of communion. for their stance of murdering infants is not what the Catholic Church supports.

Amen!! And while som Catholics individually choose abortion over the life of an unborn child, their personal opinion does not change official Church doctrine.

I agree with MarysRoses`s above post where she highlights the importance of using primary sources to see whether an assumed “truth” or assumption is correct.

Just as I was taught in school, when you cite something, source it! And use the primary source, not someone else`s writing on the source. That is how things get twisted and taken out of context.
Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[djconklin]

I disagree with your opinion that you can separate the Church from the people. In your previous posts you implied that while the Adventist Church teaches anti-Catholic doctrine, it is not anti-Catholic because it separates Catholics from the Catholic Church. Which is not possible.

1. It is not my “opinion”. I will not argue with Scripture:

Revelation 18:4
“And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”

1. I have never said, nor have ever implied that the SDA church teaches anti-Catholic doctirne.

 

[djconklin]

I tottally and the majority of my fellow catholics agree that the catholic politicans that are in support of abortion should be denied of communion. for their stance of murdering infants is not what the Catholic Church supports.

How do you get a “majority” when the study said that 70% opposed you?