Resources on Seventh-Day Adventism

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This is used to pretend that all Christians, except those at Rome and Alexandria, kept the Sabbath.
But the context is conveniently left out.
Nice try Stephen, but:
  1. There is no “pretending” involved. Except those in Rome and Alexandria Christians kept the Sabbath.
  2. Because of the exception clause one could hardly argue “all.”
  3. You left the context out when you made the quote; I don’t.
  4. The text does not say what you went to say it said.
 
Nice try Stephen, but:
  1. There is no “pretending” involved. Except those in Rome and Alexandria Christians kept the Sabbath.
  2. Because of the exception clause one could hardly argue “all.”
  3. You left the context out when you made the quote; I don’t.
  4. The text does not say what you went to say it said.
For my response to this issue, refer to p. 17 ff. of the “Question for All Scholars…” thread. I’d offer my counterarguments here, but we need to limit this discussion to the stated subject of the thread.
 
Any resources on the semi-arian SDA?
This is a fascinating concept … how the Adventist church has grown in its truth since the early days. Many criticise Adventism because of the fact that many of the Adventist pioneers were Arian or semi-Arian, but that’s unfair - they’d lost so much truth that they had a long way to go to rediscover it, and they are still on that road today.

Here are a few:

On my blog:
When did Adventism lose the truth?
The original Adventists

Those link to a few worthwhile Adventist articles on the Arianism of Adventism’s youth.

angelfire.com/ms/seanie/adventism/sdatrinity.html contains a lot of good info from a Catholic perspective.

sdanet.org/atissue/trinity/index.htm contains a lot of good info on the non-Trinitiarian side of Adventism from Adventism’s perspective.
 
Nice try Stephen, but:
  1. There is no “pretending” involved. Except those in Rome and Alexandria Christians kept the Sabbath.
  2. Because of the exception clause one could hardly argue “all.”
  3. You left the context out when you made the quote; I don’t.
  4. The text does not say what you went to say it said.
Adventists don’t leave out the context? They use it to make it seem as if Christians back then kept the Sabbath, and only Rome and Alexandria . The context doesn’t allow for that. It states that services were held on the Sabbath, and that the Apostles left freedom regarding the issue. It doesn’t, as the second one is often used to claim, show that they all kept the Sabbath and only Rome/Alexandria kept Sunday.
 
They use it to make it seem as if Christians back then kept the Sabbath, and only Rome and Alexandria .
Its the opposite: only in Rome and Alexandria did the Christians not keep the Sabbath.

Back on track once again:

To head off lots of false ideas about SDA’s that have already been shown to be false check out: pickle-publishing.com/papers/jeremiah-films/video-1.htm

Well, that’s all for today! Off to see the wizards!
 
Its the opposite: only in Rome and Alexandria did the Christians not keep the Sabbath.
Actually the text says absolutely nothing about Sabbath keeping.

One congregation has Mass on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays, and Sundays, and another one has Mass on Tuesdays, Thursdays, the Sabbath, and Sundays.

Is one keeping the Sabbath and the other not?

It’s a stretch to take a practice that is a cultural remnant of Jewish heritage and assume it’s Sabbath observance of the Adventist sort. Especially when the context not quoted by the Adventists says it’s not.
 
Adventists don’t leave out the context? They use it to make it seem as if Christians back then kept the Sabbath, and only Rome and Alexandria . The context doesn’t allow for that. It states that services were held on the Sabbath, and that the Apostles left freedom regarding the issue. It doesn’t, as the second one is often used to claim, show that they all kept the Sabbath and only Rome/Alexandria kept Sunday.
DJ,
Surely your not claiming that because they held a service on Saturday that they attached some kind of jewish ceremonial aspect to the Sabbath and observed it as a Sabbath? Thats ridiculous and the texts simply do not support it.
 
Anyone recover any resources on the Christian Connection Movement and the relations with the Boston Unitarians in SDA?

Ellen Whites husband and Uraiah Smith were both well known Chrisitan Connection ministers. It was US in his commentary on Revelation who created the arian interptation of Rev 3:14 which the Jehovah Witnesses use to this day.
 
Anyone recover any resources on the Christian Connection Movement and the relations with the Boston Unitarians in SDA?

Ellen Whites husband and Uraiah Smith were both well known Chrisitan Connection ministers. It was US in his commentary on Revelation who created the arian interptation of Rev 3:14 which the Jehovah Witnesses use to this day.
This is a 20 page document:

A heritage of freedom: the Christian Connection roots to Seventh-day Adventism

18 pages by the same author:

Impact of SDA Eschatological Assumptions on Certain Issues of Social Policy

The source is the Office of Archives & Statistics, Adventist World Headquarters.
 
Seventh Day Adventist beleive in Soul Sleep and annihilationism which that the Soul Sleeps in the ground with the body till the second coming and that those that would go to hell according to our thought process are simply distroyed. I am reading a great book that I think you might want to take a look at. Morley Death and the Afterlife which goes over it from a scriptural point of view. So far I think that it is a very great book.
The Scripture says :
Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
AND LEAN NOT ON YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING.
To deny the eternal soul and to deny the evident words of Christ about the hell is very dangerous .
 
To deny the existance of eternal soul and the reality of hell is the same as to deny God.

It reminds me the words of Smerdyakov addressed to Ivan
in Brothers Karamazov
  • ‘What are You woried about ?
  • Don’t be afraid of nothing.’
Smerdyakovs deny of responsibility before man was based on the denial
of responsibility before God , and also believe that there is neither soul nor hell.

Actually , I would advise the Adventists to read the works of Dostoevskiy too.
 
I wanted to share a book with everyone that helps answer questions we often receive from our Adventist and non-Catholic brothers and sisters. It is called Catholic Replies and is written by James J. Drummey. It is available from Catholic Answers and also from Amazon.

It contains over 800 questions on Catholicism, and addresses many of the questions Adventists frequently ask us. It is a great resource and I am really enjoying reading it. It is one of those books that is handy to keep on a nearby bookshelf.

I also ordered A Biblical Defense of Catholicism by David Armstrong. I will let you know what I think after I read it, but so far it looks like a great book!

While neither of these books are related to Adventism specifically, they correct misperceptions on Catholic teaching that we often hear from our Adventist brothers and sisters, especially when it comes to the Pope.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
The information below is from the following link:

catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9704qq.asp

Q: Seventh-Day Adventists insist that the Catholic Church has no scriptural warrant for changing the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. Is this true?

A: Not by a long shot. This question has been addressed by This Rock before, but perhaps I, as a convert to the Catholic Church from Seventh-Day Adventism, can offer a fresh perspective on the matter.

While it is true that there is no New Testament record of a voice from the heavens instructing the infant Church, “Thou shalt change the day of thy worship and rest from Saturday to Sunday,” Adventists are mistaken in their belief that there is no New Testament evidence that supports such a change by the Catholic Church. Quite apart from the biblical proof of the apostolic Church’s authority to teach in God’s name (Matt. 16:18–19, 18:17–18, Luke 10:16) and of God’s guarantee that this teaching would never fall into error (Matt. 28:19–20, Luke 22:32, John 16:13), there is an impressive amount of evidence from Scripture that Christ and the apostles changed their day of corporate worship from Saturday to Sunday.

The Old Testament Sabbath commandment contains two elements. The primary element, and the one that binds Christians as it does Jews, is the moral obligation to set aside adequate time for the purpose of divine worship. This could never be abrogated, as it is rooted in the natural law.

The secondary element was ceremonial and therefore could be abolished—and was abolished by Jesus’ death on the cross (Col. 2:12–17). This secondary, ceremonial element was that the particular day chosen to meet the moral obligation of the law was Saturday, so that the Jews would remember and memorialize the creation of the earth.

Jesus, during his earthly ministry, began to prepare the way for changing Sabbath worship from “the letter of the law” to “the spirit of the law.” Remember that one of his greatest arguments with the Pharisees concerned Sabbath worship. He constantly rebuked them for placing the rigid observance of mere details above the spirit of setting aside a day to rest from unnecessary servile work and to worship God. By this Jesus made it clear that the Sabbath may be changed to meet the needs of man. By effecting these changes as “the Son of Man,” Jesus used his human authority to show us that he is “Lord even of the Sabbath” (Mark 2:28).

As Frs. Rumble and Carty point out in Radio Replies, special honor is shown to Sunday throughout the New Testament. Christ rose from the dead on Sunday, and he first appeared to his disciples that Easter Sunday evening (John 20:19). One week later—and from the context we can see that this meant the following Sunday—Jesus appeared to them again when Thomas was present (John 20:26). Luke records that Sunday was observed by the Christian community from the very beginning: “On the first day of the week when we gathered to break bread” (Acts 20:7). To “break bread” refers to the celebration of the Eucharist (Matt. 26:26, Mark 14:22). Paul ordered the Corinthians to gather their offertory collections on Sunday (1 Cor. 16:2); that set the scriptural precedent we follow today of gathering our offerings on Sunday during Mass. John records in Rev. 1:10 that he was granted a vision of heaven’s own worship while he was at worship (“caught up in spirit”) on “the Lord’s day.” John’s disciple Ignatius of Antioch tells us in his Letter to the Magnesians that “the Lord’s day” is not the ancient Sabbath; therefore, “the Lord’s day” must refer to Sunday. (See This Rock, September 1994, “The Fathers Know Best.”)

Put this question to your Seventh-Day Adventist friends: Jesus, being God, knew whether or not his Church would apostatize by changing the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. If Adventists are correct that Christians are still obliged to keep Saturday as their day of corporate worship, isn’t it strange that Jesus underscored exactly the opposite by appearing to his disciples after his Resurrection nearly exclusively on Sunday?

—Michelle L. Arnold
 
From time to time, Adventists at CAF have claimed I am attacking the SDA Church. Karl Keating explained it better than I can, but the reason I am not writing this to upset anyone, but rather, to point out that it is actually the opposite. Adventists attack the Catholic Church, and I feel it is my duty to defend the Catholic faith, and as accurately as possible explain where and why Catholic teaching differs from Adventism. I want to educate CAF members is so we can defend our faith and not let “bad ideas lead to bad consequences.”

(The bolded parts are for emphasis, they were not bolded in the original text.)
Sincerely,

Maria1212

*Burden of History
By Karl Keating

This Rock
Volume 11, Number 4
April 2000

Catholic Answers is planning to print hundreds of thousands of copies of Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth for distribution in Rome during World Youth Day in August. At each previous World Youth Day, anti-Catholic groups passed out massive numbers of flyers intended to undercut acceptance of basic Catholic doctrines. I remember Denver in 1993. Attendees were unable to walk a block without running into Seventh-Day Adventists or other proselytizers. One anti-Catholic stood in the middle of a crosswalk and gave out literature to those going in either direction; he must have unloaded thousands of copies. On some street corners there were two or three opponents of the Church working lightning-fast to fill the hands of passersby.
**
The Adventists were upset because the Catholic Church allegedly authorized Sunday as the day of corporate worship, thus making the Church the Whore of Babylon.** Other groups had other complaints. Christians Evangelizing Catholics, a Fundamentalist organization, handed out a brochure featuring on the cover a nice image of the Virgin Mary. The brochure looked Catholic, but inside was a screed against the veneration of Mary and the saints. Then there were comic books from Chick Publications: cleverly drawn and often grotesque in their arguments. The bizarreness of the comic books induced recipients to read them all the way through—and possibly to begin entertaining doubts.

I suspect that no reader of This Rock would be swayed by any of these materials. “Who could believe such poor arguments, such deceptions, such outrageousness?” It is easy to move from one’s own immunity to a conclusion that only dolts could be susceptible to such anti-Catholic literature.

But readers of This Rock are not average Catholics. Average Catholics—those who show up for Mass regularly but otherwise have no particular involvement with their faith—have not taken any intellectual interest in their religion. They do not subscribe to Catholic periodicals. They do not read Catholic books. They have not received formal instruction in the faith since they dropped out of CCD classes in the eighth grade. Their Catholicism is habitual and cultural, not notional and practical. It does not suffuse their lives. They accept uncritically the American notion that religion is a private matter—the less said the better; the less acted upon the better.

It is such Catholics who are susceptible to anti-Catholic blandishments. They have no intellectual defenses. They may be repulsed by Chick tracts because they find the drawings exaggerated or the storylines obtuse, but they are in no position to explain why those tracts are wrongheaded in their arguments. Yes, it is good to sense that the tracts are off base, but it is much better to know why. One could dismiss particular tracts as being beyond the pale and yet, subconsciously at first and then overtly, could accept some of their arguments. “I don’t like the way they say it, but the arguments do seem to make some sense.” Most ex-Catholics once thought themselves to be solidly Catholic, until one day they woke up to find their ties to the Church fraying. It then was an easy slide from Catholic to non-Catholic to anti-Catholic.

An old saying reminds us that “ideas have consequences.” We should remember that “even bad ideas have consequences,” and people fall for bad ideas all the time.*
 
Hello all,

I have been reading your posts. I would like to offer my assistance in the study of the antichrist beast kingdom fournd in daniel 7 (little horn) and Revelation 13,17 etc.

I do not have time right at this moment, however sometime later tonight or tomorrow I will post the biblical passages regarding the antichrist kingdom without subjectivity to my interpretation and let you guys decide for yourself what it means.

And let me set the story straight. Adventists in general do not hate, dislike, or in any way not love Catholics. We think you are some of the most reverent and God fearing people on this earth. It amazes me how some of you dedicate you whole lifes in servitude and sacrifice by becoming nuns, etc. Please understand that those who may criticize you are the minority and they have no clue what they are talking about. The Papacy is guilty of commiting some crimes in the dark ages, that is true. But what kingdom is not guilty of something. America has commited some awefull crimes against humanity. How we ever practiced slavery in this land of the home the free and the brave is beyond me, but we did. So if there are any other Adventists reading this message, listen to another fellow Adventist, STOP BAD MOUTHING THESE PEOPLE. THEY ARE PRECIOUS IN GOD’S EYES. YOU ACCOMPLISH NOTHING BY INSULTING THEM.

God Bless!
 
Hello all,

I have been reading your posts. I would like to offer my assistance in the study of the antichrist beast kingdom fournd in daniel 7 (little horn) and Revelation 13,17 etc.

I do not have time right at this moment, however sometime later tonight or tomorrow I will post the biblical passages regarding the antichrist kingdom without subjectivity to my interpretation and let you guys decide for yourself what it means.

And let me set the story straight. Adventists in general do not hate, dislike, or in any way not love Catholics. We think you are some of the most reverent and God fearing people on this earth. It amazes me how some of you dedicate you whole lifes in servitude and sacrifice by becoming nuns, etc. Please understand that those who may criticize you are the minority and they have no clue what they are talking about. The Papacy is guilty of commiting some crimes in the dark ages, that is true. But what kingdom is not guilty of something. America has commited some awefull crimes against humanity. How we ever practiced slavery in this land of the home the free and the brave is beyond me, but we did. So if there are any other Adventists reading this message, listen to another fellow Adventist, STOP BAD MOUTHING THESE PEOPLE. THEY ARE PRECIOUS IN GOD’S EYES. YOU ACCOMPLISH NOTHING BY INSULTING THEM.

God Bless!
well I do not doubt there are adventists that love catholics but at the same time, these adventists surly love to degrade the catholic faith, the first chance they get and yet sugar code with their “godly” and loving character. I’m sure you have been to a revelations seminar
 
Hello all,

I have been reading your posts. I would like to offer my assistance in the study of the antichrist beast kingdom fournd in daniel 7 (little horn) and Revelation 13,17 etc.

I do not have time right at this moment, however sometime later tonight or tomorrow I will post the biblical passages regarding the antichrist kingdom without subjectivity to my interpretation and let you guys decide for yourself what it means.

And let me set the story straight. Adventists in general do not hate, dislike, or in any way not love Catholics. We think you are some of the most reverent and God fearing people on this earth. It amazes me how some of you dedicate you whole lifes in servitude and sacrifice by becoming nuns, etc. Please understand that those who may criticize you are the minority and they have no clue what they are talking about. The Papacy is guilty of commiting some crimes in the dark ages, that is true. But what kingdom is not guilty of something. America has commited some awefull crimes against humanity. How we ever practiced slavery in this land of the home the free and the brave is beyond me, but we did. So if there are any other Adventists reading this message, listen to another fellow Adventist, STOP BAD MOUTHING THESE PEOPLE. THEY ARE PRECIOUS IN GOD’S EYES. YOU ACCOMPLISH NOTHING BY INSULTING THEM.

God Bless!
Dear Messenger,

As I have stated multiple times on this thread, please kindly stick to the topic of this thread. Your above post is off topic. If you would like to discuss the above, **please start a new thread **and I will be happy to dicuss it. However, please source your allegations rather than posting mere rhetoric.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
Good idea Maria1212!

Yeah, there are a few good internet resources for Catholic Apologetics to Adventists. These are my top 3, in no particular order:
.


  1. *]DiesDomini.com. An academic approach; ever-expanding library of scholarly essays, research papers, and documents.

    .
    *]SDA2RC.com. A great site for inquirers; very personal in tone. With articles on all major issues, this is an excellent starting point for web-surfers.

    .
    *]Sabbath-keepers blog. A Catholic blog responding to the claims of Adventists. Also: Adventism v. Catholicism by the same author. Large library of articles (easily the most extensive) responding to most Adventist arguments.

    What are your thoughts of the above 3? Why not visit each and review them on this thread? It’d be a great way to become acquainted with each!
    .

  1. Messenger, I recommend you check out the above sites.

    Sincerely,

    Maria1212
 
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