Resources Requested *URGENT*

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You seem to forget that women held an important place in the early church as priests and deacons… This was mainly do to the fact that the church was held in the home which was the woman’s domain. We just so happen to honor that tradition which has been forgotten by a PATRIARChAL society which has disregarded women and made them a second class citizen… In the ORTHODOX-CATHOLIC CHURCH of AMERICA… all are welcome and we do not judge, shun, ostracize, or turn away anyone. Outside of ordaining women (which was a normal occurrence in the early church), we hold true to both eastern and western ORTHODOX traditions. I am not concerned with the salvatio0n of my soul as I know GOD shall provide. It is not your place to be concerned… but as a christian it is your place to provide, not condemn. Christian DOCTRINE professes love and understanding which I have not felt here. Also St. Benedict, of who’s rule I am professing and following says simply that we should be wary of divisions, and that we should strive for understanding. In this comes humility (the greatest of virtues). Humility is truth, Humility is Grace, humility is the honesty of ourselves, our weaknesses, our failures, our history, our virtues and our gifts. Christ humbled himself out of compassion and from that humility came compassion. THIS IS WHAT OUR CHURCH ASKS ANS PRAYS FOR IN ALL PEOPLE AND IN EVERYTHING. One of my favorite quotes is from St. Isaac of Nineveh: Let yourself be persecuted but do not persecute others; be crucified but do not crucify others; be insulted but do not insult others; be slandered but do not slander others. Rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep. Such is the sign of purity. Suffer with the sick. Be afflicted with sinners. Exult with those who repent. Be the friend of all. But in your spirit remain alone…Spread your cloak over anyone who falls into sin and shield him. And if you cannot take his fault on yourself and accept punishment in his place, do not destroy his character. THESE ARE TRULY WORDS TO LIVE BY AND WISDOM WHICH MY CHURCH UPHOLDS. I FELL SORRY AND PRAY FOR THOSE WHO CANNOT OPEN THEIR HEARTS AS CHRIST HAD DONE OUT OF LOVE HUMILITY, COMPASSION, AND UNDERSTANDING… DON NOT FORGET THE GREATEST COMMANDMENTS: LOVE GOD ABOVE ALL THINGS AND LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF…
 
You’ll have to forgive me, but my honesty is overflowing at this point in time. I was brought to tears by that last post as the reality of the wisdom found in the words i had expressed and the fullness of emotion was more than i had expected or anticipated. I do not wish to continue this shameful banter of who is right or who is wrong. Only GOD truly knows the answer to this debate which must end here and now. My only hope is that, in the stillness of God, we may be given the answers to our prayer, the strong will to move on, the understanding that Christ himself embodied. As Bede said, “In order to heal the chronic weakness of our pride, Christ offered us the fresh example of his humility.” I would like to get back to the fact of the matter. I am professing holy orders soon and am still seeking sources in which i can either acquire a habit or a pattern in which i can make me own habit. There is nothing else to discuss. What’s done is done. Let all other side comments come to a rest… please… it’s the least i ask of my Brothers and Sisters in Faith.
 
I will not assist you in any way that involves participation in a Protestant sect and eternal injury to your soul. Sorry. You may have to look elsewhere for your habit.

Dusting off my sandals. Will continue praying for your soul, even if you won’t.

~Liza
 
benroeletsgo said:
You seem to forget that women held an important place in the early church as priests and deacons… This was mainly do to the fact that the church was held in the home which was the woman’s domain. We just so happen to honor that tradition which has been forgotten by a PATRIARChAL society which has disregarded women and made them a second class citizen… In the ORTHODOX-CATHOLIC CHURCH of AMERICA… all are welcome and we do not judge, shun, ostracize, or turn away anyone. Outside of ordaining women (which was a normal occurrence in the early church), we hold true to both eastern and western ORTHODOX traditions. I am not concerned with the salvatio0n of my soul as I know GOD shall provide. It is not your place to be concerned… but as a christian it is your place to provide, not condemn. Christian DOCTRINE professes love and understanding which I have not felt here. Also St. Benedict, of who’s rule I am professing and following says simply that we should be wary of divisions, and that we should strive for understanding. In this comes humility (the greatest of virtues). Humility is truth, Humility is Grace, humility is the honesty of ourselves, our weaknesses, our failures, our history, our virtues and our gifts. Christ humbled himself out of compassion and from that humility came compassion. THIS IS WHAT OUR CHURCH ASKS ANS PRAYS FOR IN ALL PEOPLE AND IN EVERYTHING. One of my favorite quotes is from St. Isaac of Nineveh: Let yourself be persecuted but do not persecute others; be crucified but do not crucify others; be insulted but do not insult others; be slandered but do not slander others. Rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep. Such is the sign of purity. Suffer with the sick. Be afflicted with sinners. Exult with those who repent. Be the friend of all. But in your spirit remain alone…Spread your cloak over anyone who falls into sin and shield him. And if you cannot take his fault on yourself and accept punishment in his place, do not destroy his character. THESE ARE TRULY WORDS TO LIVE BY AND WISDOM WHICH MY CHURCH UPHOLDS. I FELL SORRY AND PRAY FOR THOSE WHO CANNOT OPEN THEIR HEARTS AS CHRIST HAD DONE OUT OF LOVE HUMILITY, COMPASSION, AND UNDERSTANDING… DON NOT FORGET THE GREATEST COMMANDMENTS: LOVE GOD ABOVE ALL THINGS AND LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF…
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I added a bold emphasis to point out an obvisous falsehood.

Don’t think you can come here and rewrite Church History.
 
benroeletsgo said:
You seem to forget that women held an important place in the early church as priests and deacons… This was mainly do to the fact that the church was held in the home which was the woman’s domain. We just so happen to honor that tradition which has been forgotten by a PATRIARChAL society which has disregarded women and made them a second class citizen… In the ORTHODOX-CATHOLIC CHURCH of AMERICA… all are welcome and we do not judge, shun, ostracize, or turn away anyone. Outside of ordaining women (which was a normal occurrence in the early church), we hold true to both eastern and western ORTHODOX traditions. I am not concerned with the salvatio0n of my soul as I know GOD shall provide. It is not your place to be concerned… but as a christian it is your place to provide, not condemn. Christian DOCTRINE professes love and understanding which I have not felt here. Also St. Benedict, of who’s rule I am professing and following says simply that we should be wary of divisions, and that we should strive for understanding. In this comes humility (the greatest of virtues). Humility is truth, Humility is Grace, humility is the honesty of ourselves, our weaknesses, our failures, our history, our virtues and our gifts. Christ humbled himself out of compassion and from that humility came compassion. THIS IS WHAT OUR CHURCH ASKS ANS PRAYS FOR IN ALL PEOPLE AND IN EVERYTHING. One of my favorite quotes is from St. Isaac of Nineveh: Let yourself be persecuted but do not persecute others; be crucified but do not crucify others; be insulted but do not insult others; be slandered but do not slander others. Rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep. Such is the sign of purity. Suffer with the sick. Be afflicted with sinners. Exult with those who repent. Be the friend of all. But in your spirit remain alone…Spread your cloak over anyone who falls into sin and shield him. And if you cannot take his fault on yourself and accept punishment in his place, do not destroy his character. THESE ARE TRULY WORDS TO LIVE BY AND WISDOM WHICH MY CHURCH UPHOLDS. I FELL SORRY AND PRAY FOR THOSE WHO CANNOT OPEN THEIR HEARTS AS CHRIST HAD DONE OUT OF LOVE HUMILITY, COMPASSION, AND UNDERSTANDING… DON NOT FORGET THE GREATEST COMMANDMENTS: LOVE GOD ABOVE ALL THINGS AND LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF…
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Sadly, it seems as though you have bought into the false notion that women were once priests and deacons. Many people mistake the deaconesses as being on the same level as deacons when, really, they are not the same at all. Deaconesses were not allowed to assist in celebrating the Sacraments apart from baptism. They were needed at a time when the Catholic Church used to baptize adults unclothed. It was taboo to have a male baptize a naked woman, so to keep custody of the eyes, they allowed women to baptize as well and visit women in need. Now that the Church does not keep the custom of baptizing adults unclothed, there is no need for women deaconesses. Read the link below for more information:

newadvent.org/cathen/04651a.htm

I am very tired of hearing that women are somehow below men in the Church. That is very wrong and incorrect. I am a woman and I have never felt that women were excluded from serving in the Church. There is so much we can do but being a priest is not one of these things, and I don’t mind at all. No one has a right to be ordained, it is a privilege for men only. Why do we feel the need to rewrite Church history to suit our own needs? Jesus did not ordain women to the priesthood, so Church authorities feel it is necessary to carry on the tradition of ordaining men only. I think it’s important to respect this.

Please don’t come here and try to spread falsehoods when you don’t know the truth. It is true that we are not allowed to judge the state of your soul, but that is not what we are doing. We are trying to protect you from the dangers of a false church. I will not post a pattern or website for you to buy a habit because I do not support the idea of taking vows in a non-Catholic church. Sorry, but that is the way I feel.
 
We are not protestant… we are autocephalous. We do hold true to both Western and Eastern Orthodox Traditions. As far as Ordaining women is concerned… I am not rewriting history…

Jesus and women
Jesus’ interactions with women
Code: 
Jesus always showed the greatest esteem and the greatest respect for woman, for every woman, and in particular He was sensitive to female suffering. Going beyond the social and religious barriers of the time, Jesus reestablished woman in her full dignity as a human person before God and before men ... Christ’s way of acting, the Gospel of his words and deeds, is a consistent protest against whatever offends the dignity of women.

– John Paul II, "Thoughts on Women─Address to Italian Maids," April 1979
From the beginning of the early Christian church, starting with Jesus, women were important members of the movement. The examples of the manner of Jesus reveal his attitudes toward women and show repeatedly how he liberated and affirmed women. Both complementarians and egalitarians see Jesus as treating women with compassion, grace and dignity.The gospels of the New Testament, especially Luke, often mention Jesus speaking to or helping women publicly and openly, contrary to the social norms of the time.He reached out to the marginalized in his society and thus, his appeal was great.Martha’s sister Mary sat at Jesus feet being taught, a privilege reserved for men in Judaism. Jesus had female followers who were his sponsors,[Lu 8:1-3] and he stopped to express concern for the women of Jerusalem on his way to be crucified,[Lu 23:26-31] while Mary Magdalene is recorded to be the first person to have the privilege of seeing Jesus after resurrection.[Mk 16:9] As time went on and the disciples continued to spread Jesus’ message by word of mouth, groups of Christians organized within the homes of believers. Those who could offer their home for meetings were considered important within the movement and assumed leadership roles.

Paul of Tarsus and women

The letters of Paul—dated to the middle of the first century CE—and his casual greetings to acquaintances offer information about Jewish and Gentile women who were prominent in the movement. His letters provide clues about the kind of activities in which women engaged more generally.
Code: 
* He greets Priscilla (Prisca), Junia, Julia, and Nereus' sister.[Rom. 16:3,7,15]

* Paul writes that Priscilla and her husband risked their lives to save his life.[Rom 16:3-5]

* He praises Junia (or Junias) as "prominent among the apostles" (NRSV) or "well known to the apostles" (ESV), who had been imprisoned for their labor. Some theologians understand the name to be that of a woman, suggesting that Paul recognised female apostles in the Church.[Rom 16:7] [6][7]
* Mary and Persis are commended for their hard work.[Rom. 16:6,12]

* Euodia and Syntyche are called his fellow-workers in the gospel.[Phil. 4:2-3]
Some theologians believe that these biblical reports provide evidence of women leaders active in the earliest work of spreading the Christian message,[8][9] while others reject that understanding. The evidence also indicates that these women “ministered” in supporting roles of the church much as the women who followed Christ supported his ministry.

Women in Church history
Apostolic Age

From the very beginning of the early Christian church, women were important members of the movement, although some complain that much of the information in the New Testament on the work of women has been overlooked.[11] Some also argue that many assumed that it had been a “man’s church” because sources of information stemming from the New Testament church were written and interpreted by men. Recently, scholars have begun looking in mosaics, frescoes, and inscriptions of that period for information about women’s roles in the early church.[11]
 
Seriously, sir. If Jesus would have wanted women to be priests He would have chosen to make them priests. You yourself point out that He was not going along with the conventions of His time in the way He interacted with women. That must not be the reason He did not ordain any women to the priesthood. By the way, being a woman, I am not the least offended by Jesus not ordaining women. I know that women have a special role in the Church. Ministerial priesthood is not the only way in which to serve.

I think this conversation is becoming ridiculous. Call the Benedictines. If they are not willing to “help” you to obtain a habit then why would anyone else be?

God bless and keep you!
 
thank you for everything. I’ve learned a valuable lesson that spitting into the wind is pointless and that I have truly been wasting my time on uneducated, bias, patriarchal, foolish people who are set in their ways. I’m happy where i am in my life, the decisions i’ve made, and the direction in which my life is headed. I recently got in contact with a benedictine order close to home. The abbey seamstress has been more than helpful and they will be assisting a poor bastard orthodox “protestant” like me get everything set up. Again I thank you for your time, and may GOD bless each and everyone of you and bring enlightenment, peace, understanding, and teach a few of you some humility which has clearly been missing for some time.
 
benroeletsgo said:
thank you for everything. I’ve learned a valuable lesson that spitting into the wind is pointless and that I have truly been wasting my time on uneducated, bias, patriarchal, foolish people who are set in their ways. I’m happy where i am in my life, the decisions i’ve made, and the direction in which my life is headed. I recently got in contact with a benedictine order close to home. The abbey seamstress has been more than helpful and they will be assisting a poor bastard orthodox “protestant” like me get everything set up. Again I thank you for your time, and may GOD bless each and everyone of you and bring enlightenment, peace, understanding, and teach a few of you some humility which has clearly been missing for some time.
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You are being extremely rude to those who are trying to educate you about the fiction you believe to be true. We have not called you any names and yet you are calling us “foolish” and making it as though we have called you “bastard.” No one here has said anything untrue. Before you start making accusations, you need to have a real basis, and you have none. This is my last post. I am truly unnerved and irritated at those who refuse to listen to God’s honest truth. Goodbye.
 
And how is it that you believe a woman is correct for acting in persono Christi on the altar when Christ was a man?

Since the Church is the bride of Christ and now you will have women as priest acting in persono Christi will your Church start performing gay marriage as well - because only Churches with female ordination have?
 
benroeletsgo said:
thank you for everything. I’ve learned a valuable lesson that spitting into the wind is pointless and that I have truly been wasting my time on uneducated, bias, patriarchal, foolish people who are set in their ways. I’m happy where i am in my life, the decisions i’ve made, and the direction in which my life is headed. I recently got in contact with a benedictine order close to home. The abbey seamstress has been more than helpful and they will be assisting a poor bastard orthodox “protestant” like me get everything set up. Again I thank you for your time, and may GOD bless each and everyone of you and bring enlightenment, peace, understanding, and teach a few of you some humility which has clearly been missing for some time.
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There is another valuable lesson that you should learn. Not to use ad hominem arguments. Insulting us, and claiming that we consider you to be a bastard proves nothing. Catholics have found your theology objectionable, and are trying to put you on the right path. That is a reasonable response, given that you are asking for help in becoming a religious in a church that is false in our eyes. For the same reason we would not be very willing to help a Calvinist find a place where he can learn to be a pastor. We would not want to help strengthen a branch of Christianity that we believe preaches something that is not untrue. So kindly do not respond with an ad hominem argument. It just makes it look like you have no valid counterarguments.
 
benroeletsgo said:
. Again I thank you for your time, and may GOD bless each and everyone of you and bring enlightenment, peace, understanding, and teach a few of you some humility which has clearly been missing for some time.
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Maybe you should ask for some of that humility for yourself while you are at it as this prayer from you is full of pride.
 
As Catholics in union with Rome we do not hold some of your beliefs, benroeletsgo. As you journey through life, may The Lord grant that you find your way home to Catholicism and Rome. Keep me in your prayers as I will keep you in mine.
Gothic Garments do make religious habits although quite expensive I have thought - you will find their site on this link: gothicgarments.com/
If you Google “makers religious habits” you may find some more sources of what you seek. God bless and keep you.

TS
 
Jesus was a man, his apostles were all men…

Paul instructs wives to submit to their husbands BUT he also instructs that husbands love there wives like Jesus loved the church. Women are not below men, in fact, men are below women because they must lower themselves and lay down there lives for there wives.

I’m sorry for some of the not so nice responses, As for all of my fellow Catholics, Please, Please try to stray from the “I’ll pray for you response” a.k.a “I’m holier/better than you”

Even if its genuine, it just sounds like we’re trying to make ourselves a tad better
 
First i never claimed that anyone called me a bastard, i simply used that term to describe how i’ve been made to feel. The basis of my objections to all of your arguments resides in the years of studying theology (both from a canonical and secular standpoint). I believe that The HOLY ROMAN CHURCH and it’s doctrines have room for improvement as it is a continuation of the roman empirical standards that once persecuted Christians and had murdered millions in the name of Christ for selfish, non-christian purposes. I also cannot acknowledge papal infallibility as no person is infallible. However, out of humility, I recognize the importance of the church as it was before the first schism (which split east from west in a very unfriendly manner). I also believe that as fellow CHRISTIANS we should be compassionate and understanding of others and not to force our beliefs, whether right or wrong, on others in the faith. No man, including pope or patriarch, can truly know God’s intentions or desires. This is why God is, above all things, a mystery. This will also be my last post on here as the futility has become unbearable. Please know that my most sincere apologies and prayers this glorious evening are for you. God be on your side in all you do.
 
and we do officiate Gay Marriage. I’m also Gay and i know that God loves me just the same. It is what it is and nothing you guys and dolls say can change that. THERE IS NOW NOTHING MORE TO BE SAID.
 
Saints preserve me.

I have been lurking for quite a while, very exciting argument, didn’t expect the last twist though…

God Bless…

~ Pius :knight1:
 
I have requested that the moderators please close this thread. It has gotten a little out of hand in my opinion and now that the OP has stated that he has made his last post, any more posts seem entirely futile. I know that my purpose was to evangelize the truth, and others had the same, but sometimes people’s ideas are just not open for discussion, as in this case. If my posts seem rude or out of hand, I apologize, as I am not an expert on evangelization, but I felt it important to state what Holy Mother Church teaches, even if the OP doesn’t understand. Perhaps others can gain from it. God bless.
 
benroeletsgo said:
and we do officiate Gay Marriage. I’m also Gay and i know that God loves me just the same. It is what it is and nothing you guys and dolls say can change that. THERE IS NOW NOTHING MORE TO BE SAID.
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No one had asked of your sexuality as I know I made the assumption you were planning on taking a vow of celibacy. But how do you answer the liturgical argument?

Also if you believe the Catholic Church is so fallible why would you wish to be part of an order that is recognized Canonically by the Catholic Church?

Your arguments make no sense.
 
DaughterOfMary6 said:
I have requested that the moderators please close this thread. It has gotten a little out of hand in my opinion and now that the OP has stated that he has made his last post, any more posts seem entirely futile. I know that my purpose was to evangelize the truth, and others had the same, but sometimes people’s ideas are just not open for discussion, as in this case. If my posts seem rude or out of hand, I apologize, as I am not an expert on evangelization, but I felt it important to state what Holy Mother Church teaches, even if the OP doesn’t understand. Perhaps others can gain from it. God bless.
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You are probably right. :confused:
 
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